4th grader isolated at school and in group settings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to tell the teacher that she is being bullied and if they can’t improve it in a week request a change of classroom.

That won’t help with recess. At all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to tell the teacher that she is being bullied and if they can’t improve it in a week request a change of classroom.

The problem girl is not in her class! But all the girls in all classes are together at recess.

[Anonymous]

Are there any other girls in her grade that aren’t in those groups? Can the teacher or counselor pair her with anybody?

There is a girl in my kid’s school who is friends only with boys, and a boy whose friends are all girls. Maybe branch out to boys?

[Anonymous]

This is tough but she really only needs 1-2 friends for now that aren’t in this group. I would start doing some activities with other girls. This happened to me in 6th grade and it was awful but we moved. Sadly this changed my outlook on female friendships forever where I said I was never going to be reliant on one group. I started making friends with various groups and to this day I have a ton of friends in all different groups. You will find you don’t deal with a lot of this when you’re in that situation because girls know you have other friends and don’t want this spread about them. Even to this day as a 40 year old it’s true, I’ve seen women get kind of left behind groups before

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to tell the teacher that she is being bullied and if they can’t improve it in a week request a change of classroom.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to tell the teacher that she is being bullied and if they can’t improve it in a week request a change of classroom.

I would just make sure that she’s not continuing to pursue this group that is not interested in playing with her. There are other groups I’m sure that would be thrilled to play with her.

[Anonymous]

I would see if the parochial school nearest your house had openings and if they did if they had a visiting day where students could spend a day, or a few hours visiting. Or ask to tour the school and try to go during recess or lunch to see if there are isolated kids.

4th grade is a tough year because some girls are just socially so much more mature and could easily hang out with middle school girls while other 4th grade girls would be perfectly happy still playing with dolls. If there is a socially savvy, popular girl who engages in relational bullying (purposeful manipulation and damaging of peer relationships) it makes school miserable for the girl(s) who are being bullied.

It probably depends on the school but I have found in general kids in parochial schools don't grow up as fast. There are more limits on phones in school as well. There is more of an emphasis on not excluding although it can happen.

If you could start her right now in 4th grade she and she finds friends she can stay until 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

From your clarifications it sounds like this is a mean girl scenario, but maybe not true bullying if the queen bee isn't directing the others to follow suit & they just are. I think you need to get over the idea that it matters that your DD doesn't want you to tell anyone/intervene. You have to. It will not end otherwise. You need to talk to the parents you know of her actual friends who are doing this in public and tell them what's up. At least some parents will do the right thing and that may be enough to break the spell with at least some groups. You also need to tell the teacher & school so the school can implement strategies to nip this in the bud. And, finally, you need to be prepared for your DD to switch schools next year if none of that works or it back fires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to tell the teacher that she is being bullied and if they can’t improve it in a week request a change of classroom.

I would just make sure that she’s not continuing to pursue this group that is not interested in playing with her. There are other groups I’m sure that would be thrilled to play with her.

+1 I have a kid who has gone through this and for her the issue was that her self-conception was that of a typical kid, but she was actually a kid with interests that were not totally mainstream. She saw that the kids who shared her interests were ostracized, so she continued to try to be friends with the mean girls even though they didn't consume the same media or engage in the same activities.

It was frustrating as a parent, because she was actually being unkind to the kids who shared her interests. But I also felt badly for her because her feelings were genuinely hurt. We had approximately 1 million conversations about being nice to the kids who were nice to you, and how popularity doesn't matter, and how she was going to be happier if she would just decide to be friends with the kids that she had things in common with.

It took some time and maturity, but she has fully settled into her actual peer group at this point. Is there something similar in the mix with your child?

[Anonymous]

Queen Bee syndrome IS bullying.

[Anonymous]

There have to be groups the Queen Bee girl is not controlling or a part of, right?

When my kids have had trouble or are being excluded by a group (happened to both of them) I asked them to visualize the lunchroom or recess and go through all the options of pairs and groups or individuals they could approach to sit with/play with. They would do it out loud and describe all the social dynamics to me. Well this table or this pair or group is over here doing this. In both cases, it ended up making them realize there were other options. They get tunnel vision and in their brains they don't even see other social options when they are right there. I think for kids it feels terrifying to think of going "down" a social notch. But just empower them to realize there are many options and they have agency and control. She doesn't have to just hang around getting rebuffed and feeling like crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have to be groups the Queen Bee girl is not controlling or a part of, right?

When my kids have had trouble or are being excluded by a group (happened to both of them) I asked them to visualize the lunchroom or recess and go through all the options of pairs and groups or individuals they could approach to sit with/play with. They would do it out loud and describe all the social dynamics to me. Well this table or this pair or group is over here doing this. In both cases, it ended up making them realize there were other options. They get tunnel vision and in their brains they don't even see other social options when they are right there. I think for kids it feels terrifying to think of going "down" a social notch. But just empower them to realize there are many options and they have agency and control. She doesn't have to just hang around getting rebuffed and feeling like crap.

I did something similar with my DD when she went through a very rough patch with friends in 4th grade. They were excluding her, and the one girl who was still OK with my DD's participation was also very bossy with my DD such that their friendship wasn't very healthy for my kid. (My DD played the part of lackey to the other girl, who wasn't very nice, kind and didn't seem into the friendship for the right reasons, but b/c the other girls weren't friendly to my DD, she was acquiescing to the relationship dynamic of the one girl who was "accepting" her.) So, I had my daughter do an exercise for a week to take note of one girl each day who looked like she could be someone my DD could approach at recess, possibly playing something she could join in, maybe someone kind of on her own) and just note it down in her head for a week, and then the following week we made a plan of action for her to approach said other girls she noted to see about a connection. It kind of worked, in that it allowed her an out for a little while from the toxic situation that was bringing her down. She got to know some other girls decently well, learned a bit about how to notice others and reach out to others.

The dynamics shifted so much and so often after that that the situation in 4th at recess did become a non issue relatively soon thereafter, and continued to evolve so much and now she's in 7th (granted, at a larger public w/ many more social opportunities), but I really do think those really intentional moments in 4th taught her a lot about how others' behavior made her feel, and how she could work to alleviate her situation or solve her issues.