Does class size matter at the college level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 500 person class is basically YouTube.

What school has a 500 person class?

Haha. Lots of schools! I was in a class my first year at Harvard with about 900.

That sounds miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman kid is at a SLAC and one reason they chose it is for the small class sizes. In my opinion (and personal experience), there is a significant difference between a 40-50 person class and a class of 100-300. My kid had one class with around 40 students this year - that was their largest class, but the professor still knew them all, called on them by name, had lots of class participation, and was able to give very detailed feedback to them. No TAs ran labs or study sessions or did any grading. When grades were posted, the prof wrote each of the students an email about their performance in the class and her thoughts about other courses they might like in the department, and for some of them, that she hoped they considering majoring in the department. She also suggested research and summer opportunities to some of them. As for other classes, my kid's smallest class was 12 students - next semester they will have an even smaller class. And it's not just the relationships with the professors, your interaction with peers is also very different when there are 12 of you, or even 40 of you, versus 300 of you. It's personal preference of course but obviously there is a big difference.

Everything you just described has been my kid's experience at a large state school. She's on a first-name basis with most of her professors, several of whom have written deeply personal recommendation letters for her. She's also never had a TA in the classroom at all, and certainly no classes larger than an intro of about 150. Since then, her classes average around 30 people, more or less.

I don't doubt this at all, and I'm glad it has been her experience with her professors. But it is a very different learning experience to sit in a class of 12 versus a class of 150, or honestly even 12 versus 40 - again, I am not saying one is better or worse. Different students want different things. Though I am very surprised that she took classes with 150 students and there was no TA involvement in labs, study sessions or grading. That is unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lecture vs a seminar are completely different experiences. My child wanted schools where she could access discussion based classes as much as possible. But I agree with you that a 50 person lecture is not that different from a 200 person lecture.

This

[Anonymous]

My kid is at a school where no class, including lectures, is over 100 kids. Her biggest class, an intro stem class, was 70 kids, but most have been under 20. Every one of her professors have known her by name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 500 person class is basically YouTube.

What school has a 500 person class?

The state flagship I attended for grad school. I led discussion sections for a class like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try to get as many seminar classes as possible. They're more valuable.

False. The large lectures give you access to the famous and gifted lecturers son the faculty. My DS had Ken Elzinga for Micro amd macro econ his first year at UVA. Elzinga became a mentor and wrote LORs long after DS went into politics seminars. I. sharp contrast, the faculty at my SLAC were unknowns in their fields outside of my SLAC and my LORs hurt me as a result.

That's awesome. Did he write LORs for all 500 people in his lectures?

[Anonymous]

UMich has a lot of huge STEM lectures where frankly the kids watch videos or live stream most discussions. Not many lectures have required attendance.

There’s a lot of kids watching the best prof teach to understand the material. Labs, discussion groups, online help, and in-person discussions offered. It’s all on the student to learn the material.

Finally the exam curves are wicked. Lots of STEM classes curves to a 3.0 and not a point higher.

I’m a bit surprised at this whole big class structure but it seems to work at UMich. Students learn to be proactive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I notice that many college rankings consider class size.
As an adult, why do you need to be sitting in a tiny classroom to learn?

As an adult, why do you need to be sitting in a classroom to learn?

As an adult, why do you need to be attending a college to learn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 500 person class is basically YouTube.

What school has a 500 person class?

Haha. Lots of schools! I was in a class my first year at Harvard with about 900.

That sounds miserable.

It's considered the best class in the country, and regularly attended by non students, because the lecturer is incredibly talented as a writer and speaker.

Most large classes aren't that good, especially outside of humanities, over in subjects where being a brilliant researcher has nothing to do with writing or speaking abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Try to get as many seminar classes as possible. They're more valuable.

False. The large lectures give you access to the famous and gifted lecturers son the faculty. My DS had Ken Elzinga for Micro amd macro econ his first year at UVA. Elzinga became a mentor and wrote LORs long after DS went into politics seminars. I. sharp contrast, the faculty at my SLAC were unknowns in their fields outside of my SLAC and my LORs hurt me as a result.

After fighting my way through this comment, I wouldn't blame your SLAC processors LORs, though maybe their teaching was poor.

[Anonymous]

Smaller class sizes enhance learning. You get to know each other and your professors. There is more ‘air’ time by each student. The professors write to you when you miss class. There is a lot more accountability if you don’t show up. The professors mentor and coach more and even have dinners at their houses. The ages of 18-22 still need a lot of positive role models. They often get it in the smaller classes where the teacher knows them by name and talks to them before and after every class. Class size makes a difference.

[Anonymous]

Some classes are 2000+ students. Berkeley Intro to CS is that big. I think less than half the students fit in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lecture vs a seminar are completely different experiences. My child wanted schools where she could access discussion based classes as much as possible. But I agree with you that a 50 person lecture is not that different from a 200 person lecture.

I don't even agree that a 50 person lecture is similar to a 200 person lecture. With 50, you stand a much better chance if developing an actual relationship with the professor. It's also much more feasible to have meaningful class discussion with 50 people because you can develop more rapport with class mates. There's also more accountability-- with a lecture that size, people actually do notice when someone misses class. With 200, no one knows or cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman kid is at a SLAC and one reason they chose it is for the small class sizes. In my opinion (and personal experience), there is a significant difference between a 40-50 person class and a class of 100-300. My kid had one class with around 40 students this year - that was their largest class, but the professor still knew them all, called on them by name, had lots of class participation, and was able to give very detailed feedback to them. No TAs ran labs or study sessions or did any grading. When grades were posted, the prof wrote each of the students an email about their performance in the class and her thoughts about other courses they might like in the department, and for some of them, that she hoped they considering majoring in the department. She also suggested research and summer opportunities to some of them. As for other classes, my kid's smallest class was 12 students - next semester they will have an even smaller class. And it's not just the relationships with the professors, your interaction with peers is also very different when there are 12 of you, or even 40 of you, versus 300 of you. It's personal preference of course but obviously there is a big difference.

Everything you just described has been my kid's experience at a large state school. She's on a first-name basis with most of her professors, several of whom have written deeply personal recommendation letters for her. She's also never had a TA in the classroom at all, and certainly no classes larger than an intro of about 150. Since then, her classes average around 30 people, more or less.

I don’t think they disagree with you, but at many large state schools the profs really don’t care to know your names.

[Anonymous]

Intro CS lectures at UMD have about 250 plus a separate discussion class with 30 led by a TA. My kid doesn't seem to mind. Kids study in teams. Pretty self sufficient.