What does PreK Look Like in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

My kid went to a DCPS Pre-K and had an absolutely wonderful and age-appropriate experience with a veteran educator who was constantly doing different and interesting activities to get the kids learning, doing things with their hands, and moving around. I think you should check out the schools you're interested in before making judgements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, you're not high-strung, you're just writing a big-words essay at 6:19 AM about precisely what kind of preschool you think is best for everyone.

It sounds like you want a more play-based and child-led approach than you're going to get in DCPS. Yes, there's research, but DCPS has other considerations too. Like the feasibility of a truly child-led approach within DCPS' adult-child ratio, which is funding-driven. Like how much recess can each class have when the school has only one playground and 20+ classes. And the fact that not all parents feel as strongly about play-based as you do. Myself, I'm very up on the research literature through my job, but still felt that a hybrid play-based and direct instruction approach was perfect for my specific child.

You need to understand that in the lottery it's unlikely you'll get a PK3 spot at a school with strong test scores in the upper grades. Possible but unlikely.

Sadly, my kid woke up at 4:30AM and I didn’t fall back asleep. I had been meaning to post but kept forgetting. Sue me for thinking being more articulate would help get the point across. Your factious comment as to what you think my personality is like isn’t helpful.

And it’s not what I think is best, it’s what research shows. I have also stated that I do not care if there is some academics that are teacher led. The particular school I was in boundary for before I moved just seemed so strict I was worried this might be the norm.

I also didn’t say playground time specifically. 30 minutes isn’t ideal, 45-60 would be better but that would be fine if the rest of the day wasn’t small groups and whole group teacher-led all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid's day (this was at a Ward 5 Title I in 2016) was:

Circle time-- talk about what's on tap for the day, what day of the week it is, sing a song or two.

Then they did the "play plan" which was a thing at the time-- they would "write" or do a picture of what they intended to do.

Centers time-- they had the Tools of the Mind curriculum at the tunem where they have the classroom set up to play different scenarios such as restaurant.

Specials-- music, art, PE, etc, either they walk or the teacher comes to them.

Literacy-- the aide read aloud to some of them while others had more explicit phonics instruction in a small group with the teacher.

A math activity of some sort such as a game where you count things or play with math manipulatives such as pattern blocks.

Occasionally a field trip (they walked to a fire station) or a visiting performer in the school auditorium.

Lunch, recess, nap (90 mins sleep or look at a book or quietly play on your cot)

Closing circle which is just sort of a goodbye routine with a song.

Personally I was fine with the direct instruction as my DD enjoyed it and made great progress in her early reading skills. I think you'll find not everyone is seeking as purely play-based a curriculum as you seem to be.

Thank you, this is helpful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid went to a DCPS Pre-K and had an absolutely wonderful and age-appropriate experience with a veteran educator who was constantly doing different and interesting activities to get the kids learning, doing things with their hands, and moving around. I think you should check out the schools you're interested in before making judgements.

No judgement on the whole, the particular school my child was in boundary for was not looking good. That is why I asked if DCPS as a whole was similar. And it’s not a judgement that DCPS is failing Black children overall, it’s a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does a typical day look like for your pre-kindergarten child—or, if you have experience from the last few years, how was it structured then?

I’m interested in understanding whether certain DCPS schools are leaning toward a more rote, academic model for preschoolers. After reviewing the math curriculum, I’m concerned that it may not be as hands-on or developmentally appropriate as I’d hope. I’m not comfortable with my child spending their day engaged primarily in lectures—however “playful” they may be—or confined to small group activities that feel more like lessons than exploration.

There’s substantial research demonstrating that developmentally inappropriate methods can have a negative impact by the time children reach fourth grade. While I plan to speak with schools directly to learn more about their Pre-K schedules, I’m aware that some may simply tell parents what they want to hear or even highlight approaches that inadvertently contradict current best practices.


To be clear, I’m not opposed to academic learning. However, at this age, learning should be play-based and aligned with what we know works well for young children. Anything else seems to disregard the evidence on early childhood education’s most effective, engaging, and supportive methods.

I am moving but what would have been my neighborhood school only had 70 minutes of play, including recess. Their academic scores were also not that great to boast about having kids as young as 3 reading…

DCPS used to have some Reggio prek programs, but my kids are in HS now (and in MD to boot) so I'm not sure if they're still there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, you're not high-strung, you're just writing a big-words essay at 6:19 AM about precisely what kind of preschool you think is best for everyone.

It sounds like you want a more play-based and child-led approach than you're going to get in DCPS. Yes, there's research, but DCPS has other considerations too. Like the feasibility of a truly child-led approach within DCPS' adult-child ratio, which is funding-driven. Like how much recess can each class have when the school has only one playground and 20+ classes. And the fact that not all parents feel as strongly about play-based as you do. Myself, I'm very up on the research literature through my job, but still felt that a hybrid play-based and direct instruction approach was perfect for my specific child.

You need to understand that in the lottery it's unlikely you'll get a PK3 spot at a school with strong test scores in the upper grades. Possible but unlikely.

Sadly, my kid woke up at 4:30AM and I didn’t fall back asleep. I had been meaning to post but kept forgetting. Sue me for thinking being more articulate would help get the point across. Your factious comment as to what you think my personality is like isn’t helpful.

And it’s not what I think is best, it’s what research shows. I have also stated that I do not care if there is some academics that are teacher led. The particular school I was in boundary for before I moved just seemed so strict I was worried this might be the norm.

I also didn’t say playground time specifically. 30 minutes isn’t ideal, 45-60 would be better but that would be fine if the rest of the day wasn’t small groups and whole group teacher-led all day.

You're not going to get what you're hoping for from DCPS. You're not going to get a 60-minute recess because those minutes are mandated to be used for other purposes. It's math. It's just not how it works in public school, and it's not up to the individual schools. And what on earth is wrong with small groups?

If you come in being like "The research proves that this is unequivocally best and therefore the school must provide it", you're just going to alienate everyone. Research changes! It comes and goes, it ebbs and flows, all kinds of stupid things have been rolled out as research-based and then rolled back again. If you hang your hat on the research you'll just annoy everyone and seem like an inexperienced preschool parent.

[Anonymous]

I think you really need to ponder how much of the day is even available for the dreaded academic instruction and small groups. They start about 8:30 with circle time. They have only about 3 hours until the lunch-recess-nap block begins. That includes specials. There's also bathroom breaks (a lot, remember some kids are still 2 years old at the start of the year). There's only so much academic instruction and small groups that could possibly happen in what's functionally a morning preschool program with lunch and nap.

It seems like maybe you observed one outlier teacher at your boundary school. Why don't you just say where you're moving to and then people can share their experiences at the schools that are relevant to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

I'm not sure what they spent on the math curriculum. But the budget limitation is a staffing limitation, and a physical space limitations. DCPS PK3 has 16 kids, a teacher, an aide, and additional staff if required by student IEPs. To implement a truly play-based approach with minimal whole-group instruction is difficult at that staffing level. The benefit of whole-group instruction is that ONE adult can engage (and supervise) a large number of kids. Much harder to do if they're all scrambling around playing. To provide an additional aide for every single PK3 classroom in the city, with FICA and benefits, forever, would cost a lot, I can easily see that costing more than a math curriculum. Similarly, say you want more outdoor play-- okay, so it has to happen in a physical location that is not overcrowded. Should each school buy an adjoining lot, demo the what's on it, and make a second playground? How much do you think that would cost? You need to really think through the logistics of what you are asking for.

Mandates are things like a certain amount of time spent on certain topics. If it's tons of free play and recess, there aren't enough minutes left in the day to meet the mandates. DCPS is very heavily regulated and preschool especially. Schools can't just decide to do it differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

It's very unclear to me how a typical DCPS preschool would cause your child to "be a statistic". Lots of kids have a not-totally-play-based preschool experience and are just fine in preschool and in the future. Lots of parents prefer it that way. Is there a specific reason you're concerned your child would not thrive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

I totally feel your stress here. I think maybe you need to look at the school beyond PK to see what their entire trajectory will be like -- maybe private will end up being the answer for you.

I sent two kids through DCPS PK at a Title 1 school, for the oldest they used "Tools of the Mind" and for the younger one they had switched to "Creative Curriculum" which seemed to involve a lot more play. Both of them also learned to read during PK4 (supported by their teachers). Honestly, PK was a huge highlight of their school experiences -- overqualified, kind, caring teachers in a utopian, beautiful environment. I had way more concerns about their schooling later on, but PK was amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, you're not high-strung, you're just writing a big-words essay at 6:19 AM about precisely what kind of preschool you think is best for everyone.

It sounds like you want a more play-based and child-led approach than you're going to get in DCPS. Yes, there's research, but DCPS has other considerations too. Like the feasibility of a truly child-led approach within DCPS' adult-child ratio, which is funding-driven. Like how much recess can each class have when the school has only one playground and 20+ classes. And the fact that not all parents feel as strongly about play-based as you do. Myself, I'm very up on the research literature through my job, but still felt that a hybrid play-based and direct instruction approach was perfect for my specific child.

You need to understand that in the lottery it's unlikely you'll get a PK3 spot at a school with strong test scores in the upper grades. Possible but unlikely.

Sadly, my kid woke up at 4:30AM and I didn’t fall back asleep. I had been meaning to post but kept forgetting. Sue me for thinking being more articulate would help get the point across. Your factious comment as to what you think my personality is like isn’t helpful.

And it’s not what I think is best, it’s what research shows. I have also stated that I do not care if there is some academics that are teacher led. The particular school I was in boundary for before I moved just seemed so strict I was worried this might be the norm.

I also didn’t say playground time specifically. 30 minutes isn’t ideal, 45-60 would be better but that would be fine if the rest of the day wasn’t small groups and whole group teacher-led all day.

You're not going to get what you're hoping for from DCPS. You're not going to get a 60-minute recess because those minutes are mandated to be used for other purposes. It's math. It's just not how it works in public school, and it's not up to the individual schools. And what on earth is wrong with small groups?

If you come in being like "The research proves that this is unequivocally best and therefore the school must provide it", you're just going to alienate everyone. Research changes! It comes and goes, it ebbs and flows, all kinds of stupid things have been rolled out as research-based and then rolled back again. If you hang your hat on the research you'll just annoy everyone and seem like an inexperienced preschool parent.

This is 100 years of research…it hasn’t changed in terms of play being best. American public school districts with universal PK don’t listen.

Nothing is wrong with small groups, just 30 minutes each day (for each kid) seems like a lot. And 60 min of whole group, not including the morning meeting. You are right the day is short, that’s why I was worried. When I raised concerns the school said it was the ‘gold standard in DCPS.’

I am inexperienced! That is why I am asking. I think the in boundary school would be Van Ness or Brent.

[Anonymous]

(if I were your advisor, it sounds like you want something like Montessori for PK, and then private K-12).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

I totally feel your stress here. I think maybe you need to look at the school beyond PK to see what their entire trajectory will be like -- maybe private will end up being the answer for you.

I sent two kids through DCPS PK at a Title 1 school, for the oldest they used "Tools of the Mind" and for the younger one they had switched to "Creative Curriculum" which seemed to involve a lot more play. Both of them also learned to read during PK4 (supported by their teachers). Honestly, PK was a huge highlight of their school experiences -- overqualified, kind, caring teachers in a utopian, beautiful environment. I had way more concerns about their schooling later on, but PK was amazing.

Thank you, I’ll definitely look beyond. I am a first time parent and am stressing a bit. My husband is much more laid back about all this, haha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

It's very unclear to me how a typical DCPS preschool would cause your child to "be a statistic". Lots of kids have a not-totally-play-based preschool experience and are just fine in preschool and in the future. Lots of parents prefer it that way. Is there a specific reason you're concerned your child would not thrive?

I’m just worried. I have other POC friends with children a bit older and have heard some stories, such as teachers taking 5-25 minutes of recess away from their 3 year old child…
It seems there may be some high expectations at some schools.

And again, I am not looking for totally play based. Just not primarily academic-teacher led. For example 70/30 or 60/40 for play vs. the opposite.