What does PreK Look Like in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

I'm not sure what they spent on the math curriculum. But the budget limitation is a staffing limitation, and a physical space limitations. DCPS PK3 has 16 kids, a teacher, an aide, and additional staff if required by student IEPs. To implement a truly play-based approach with minimal whole-group instruction is difficult at that staffing level. The benefit of whole-group instruction is that ONE adult can engage (and supervise) a large number of kids. Much harder to do if they're all scrambling around playing. To provide an additional aide for every single PK3 classroom in the city, with FICA and benefits, forever, would cost a lot, I can easily see that costing more than a math curriculum. Similarly, say you want more outdoor play-- okay, so it has to happen in a physical location that is not overcrowded. Should each school buy an adjoining lot, demo the what's on it, and make a second playground? How much do you think that would cost? You need to really think through the logistics of what you are asking for.

Mandates are things like a certain amount of time spent on certain topics. If it's tons of free play and recess, there aren't enough minutes left in the day to meet the mandates. DCPS is very heavily regulated and preschool especially. Schools can't just decide to do it differently.

To the PP saying that its difficult to implement a truly play-based approach with 16 children, a teacher, and an aide, that is untrue. I've been a threes teacher in private play-based programs with that group size and staffing, and teachers can interact with children and guide their learning. Play-based programs have 'center time' focused on different activities (math center, art center, blocks center, dramatic play, etc), and 3 -4 children go to each center and engage with materials and activities set up there. While most of the children are playing independently or in small groups, the teacher can focus on a child or group of children with teacher-led activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

I'm not sure what they spent on the math curriculum. But the budget limitation is a staffing limitation, and a physical space limitations. DCPS PK3 has 16 kids, a teacher, an aide, and additional staff if required by student IEPs. To implement a truly play-based approach with minimal whole-group instruction is difficult at that staffing level. The benefit of whole-group instruction is that ONE adult can engage (and supervise) a large number of kids. Much harder to do if they're all scrambling around playing. To provide an additional aide for every single PK3 classroom in the city, with FICA and benefits, forever, would cost a lot, I can easily see that costing more than a math curriculum. Similarly, say you want more outdoor play-- okay, so it has to happen in a physical location that is not overcrowded. Should each school buy an adjoining lot, demo the what's on it, and make a second playground? How much do you think that would cost? You need to really think through the logistics of what you are asking for.

Mandates are things like a certain amount of time spent on certain topics. If it's tons of free play and recess, there aren't enough minutes left in the day to meet the mandates. DCPS is very heavily regulated and preschool especially. Schools can't just decide to do it differently.

To the PP saying that its difficult to implement a truly play-based approach with 16 children, a teacher, and an aide, that is untrue. I've been a threes teacher in private play-based programs with that group size and staffing, and teachers can interact with children and guide their learning. Play-based programs have 'center time' focused on different activities (math center, art center, blocks center, dramatic play, etc), and 3 -4 children go to each center and engage with materials and activities set up there. While most of the children are playing independently or in small groups, the teacher can focus on a child or group of children with teacher-led activities.

Yes, this is how our DCPCS preschool works. It works well. I also visited several other DCPS preschools and they had nearly identical models.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can't come in to DPCS expecting they'll do the "best practices" of the moment or be entirely research-based. They have a LOT of other factors, such as federal mandates, city laws and regs, budget limitations, physical space limitations, etc. You need to manage your expectations and remember that you get what you pay for (if you're lucky-- sometimes you don't even get that).

There are plenty of examples of school systems doing something they think is research-based and it ends up being a disaster and not having the expected result. (The math fiasco in San Francisco is a recent example.) DCPS isn't that quick to move with the ever-changing research and ebb and flow of trends. That can have very real pros and cons.

Budget limitations is an interesting statement, considering how much they spent on this math curriculum. I’m also not sure how allowing for play without a ton of small group and whole group all day doesn’t align with mandates.

But I do understand what you’re saying. I am not expecting magic here, I just want my child to mostly be happy first and foremost. I also don’t want my kid to be a statistic.

I'm not sure what they spent on the math curriculum. But the budget limitation is a staffing limitation, and a physical space limitations. DCPS PK3 has 16 kids, a teacher, an aide, and additional staff if required by student IEPs. To implement a truly play-based approach with minimal whole-group instruction is difficult at that staffing level. The benefit of whole-group instruction is that ONE adult can engage (and supervise) a large number of kids. Much harder to do if they're all scrambling around playing. To provide an additional aide for every single PK3 classroom in the city, with FICA and benefits, forever, would cost a lot, I can easily see that costing more than a math curriculum. Similarly, say you want more outdoor play-- okay, so it has to happen in a physical location that is not overcrowded. Should each school buy an adjoining lot, demo the what's on it, and make a second playground? How much do you think that would cost? You need to really think through the logistics of what you are asking for.

Mandates are things like a certain amount of time spent on certain topics. If it's tons of free play and recess, there aren't enough minutes left in the day to meet the mandates. DCPS is very heavily regulated and preschool especially. Schools can't just decide to do it differently.

To the PP saying that its difficult to implement a truly play-based approach with 16 children, a teacher, and an aide, that is untrue. I've been a threes teacher in private play-based programs with that group size and staffing, and teachers can interact with children and guide their learning. Play-based programs have 'center time' focused on different activities (math center, art center, blocks center, dramatic play, etc), and 3 -4 children go to each center and engage with materials and activities set up there. While most of the children are playing independently or in small groups, the teacher can focus on a child or group of children with teacher-led activities.

Yes, this is how our DCPCS preschool works. It works well. I also visited several other DCPS preschools and they had nearly identical models.

Also how our DCPS school works, too.

[Anonymous]

With DC's budget woes, I would be wary of PK3 and PK4 programs next school year. If they are going to cut something, it'll be those programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With DC's budget woes, I would be wary of PK3 and PK4 programs next school year. If they are going to cut something, it'll be those programs.

I’m worried about this too. Free all day preK is such a benefit but it can’t be cheap. My kids preK4 teacher has a masters degree in ECE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With DC's budget woes, I would be wary of PK3 and PK4 programs next school year. If they are going to cut something, it'll be those programs.

Oh man this is a very good point. Free PK3 is so unusual around the country, and is completely optional.

[Anonymous]

PKEEP might be in jeopardy. But DCPS PK3 and PK4 should be okay?