Disturbing news about former Stanford dean

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1000% wrong for this dean no question.

However, it also struck me as sad that this student's perception of the relationship was another manipulation by her parents to reframe what had included positive experiences into one that was labeled as only manipulation and abuse. I wish her parents had handled her own mental health better in this situation. There were ways to identify the Dean's action as fully inappropriate behavior (thus there is school policy against it) without leading Haas to being fully embarrassed and led to reframe the relationship so that she now feels that nothing was real and it was all manipulation and abuse. It sounds to me like they both genuinely had feelings. Sure, they both need to come to terms with it and the Dean is responsible for acting on those feelings and for all of the pain it caused the student. But, parents were rightfully upset and it was right for the Dean to be fired and held accountable....so I can understand their actions too.

???

I'm saying I feel bad for Haas also because her parents took no care in their response to consider how their view of this relationship would damage her psyche. Haas was not feeling harmed or used when she ended the relationship. She ended it because she had moved onto another relationship.

She ended when decided to stop cheating on her boyfriend.

Yes, that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1000% wrong for this dean no question.

However, it also struck me as sad that this student's perception of the relationship was another manipulation by her parents to reframe what had included positive experiences into one that was labeled as only manipulation and abuse. I wish her parents had handled her own mental health better in this situation. There were ways to identify the Dean's action as fully inappropriate behavior (thus there is school policy against it) without leading Haas to being fully embarrassed and led to reframe the relationship so that she now feels that nothing was real and it was all manipulation and abuse. It sounds to me like they both genuinely had feelings. Sure, they both need to come to terms with it and the Dean is responsible for acting on those feelings and for all of the pain it caused the student. But, parents were rightfully upset and it was right for the Dean to be fired and held accountable....so I can understand their actions too.

???

I'm saying I feel bad for Haas also because her parents took no care in their response to consider how their view of this relationship would damage her psyche. Haas was not feeling harmed or used when she ended the relationship. She ended it because she had moved onto another relationship.

50-2500 years ago, this was a normal sort of relationship, and (for heterosexuals) often led to marriage.

It's only frowned upon now because of the potential for abuse of power, like a DUI where there was no car crash this time.

JLH is wrong for that reason. (Use Tinder or a bar like a normal person).

Haas is only wrong for using the scandal to promote herself and her bad writing.

Sexual relations between adults and teens (and sometimes children) have the same problem. It's wrong, but the youth gets victimized further because the anger at the adult creates the astigmatic situation where everyone has to show how deeply damaged the youth is, to justify punishing the adult more. So the youth is told how horrible it was and how disgusting it was and how broken they are, and how their own feelings are wrong, to feed the bloodlust of the onlookers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m confused a professor and a student had sex?

And what else?

The parents found out after it was over - reported it to Stanford - Dean left - student felt guilty about Dean having to leave and then had to deal with that mental baggage along with her parents telling her how horrible the relationship was (being an inappropriate relationship for the Dean doesn't mean it wasn't a genuine one from both sides).

Yes - the Dean was wrong and should not be at the school.... but it seems like this was a genuine relationship that ended in a normal "ran its course" manner.

is it against the rules ? I think it should be but the fact is professors bang students and me thinking it skeevy doesn’t matter, it’s legal and allowed.

[Anonymous]

What’s the norm in a company/office situation these days? Can two people date if they are at different “levels”? On the one hand I think a 22 year old is an adult and should be able to fall in love with whom they please. On the other hand I get the power differential here and how it could have been used to pressure her into a relationship which is a terrible thing. Haas did describe her feelings as mutual, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They handled that in a very mature manner.

Right, this type of thing had gone on since time immemorial in academia. It sounds like when the affair I occurred , the student was 22 and the school had no policy against it.

I was asked out by my professor at the U of Michigan, in grad school. And when I was at Johns Hopkins, a married department chair started an affair with a student he was supervising . It was wrong, but absolutely known by the whole department.

I am happy that such situations have been officially banned now, in some universities . But that is a recent development and people are naive if they did know how common (and condoned) this has been historically.

(For shocked posters, read up on Emmanuel Macron’s marriage!)

[Anonymous]

I think people find it titillating when the person in power is female.

Men have done this in every field where they operate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They handled that in a very mature manner.

Right, this type of thing had gone on since time immemorial in academia. It sounds like when the affair I occurred , the student was 22 and the school had no policy against it.

I was asked out by my professor at the U of Michigan, in grad school. And when I was at Johns Hopkins, a married department chair started an affair with a student he was supervising . It was wrong, but absolutely known by the whole department.

I am happy that such situations have been officially banned now, in some universities . But that is a recent development and people are naive if they did know how common (and condoned) this has been historically.

(For shocked posters, read up on Emmanuel Macron’s marriage!)

Yes, it was against stated policy for undergrads, which is what this student was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They handled that in a very mature manner.

Right, this type of thing had gone on since time immemorial in academia. It sounds like when the affair I occurred , the student was 22 and the school had no policy against it.

I was asked out by my professor at the U of Michigan, in grad school. And when I was at Johns Hopkins, a married department chair started an affair with a student he was supervising . It was wrong, but absolutely known by the whole department.

I am happy that such situations have been officially banned now, in some universities . But that is a recent development and people are naive if they did know how common (and condoned) this has been historically.

(For shocked posters, read up on Emmanuel Macron’s marriage!)

It’s discouraged but I don’t think it’s universally banned nor should it be. Some of these relationships end happily in long term relationships. As long as the dynamic is not coercive and there is no harassment, I don’t see the problem. It seems wrong to dictate to grown adults who they can and can’t fall in love with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1000% wrong for this dean no question.

However, it also struck me as sad that this student's perception of the relationship was another manipulation by her parents to reframe what had included positive experiences into one that was labeled as only manipulation and abuse. I wish her parents had handled her own mental health better in this situation. There were ways to identify the Dean's action as fully inappropriate behavior (thus there is school policy against it) without leading Haas to being fully embarrassed and led to reframe the relationship so that she now feels that nothing was real and it was all manipulation and abuse. It sounds to me like they both genuinely had feelings. Sure, they both need to come to terms with it and the Dean is responsible for acting on those feelings and for all of the pain it caused the student. But, parents were rightfully upset and it was right for the Dean to be fired and held accountable....so I can understand their actions too.

???

I'm saying I feel bad for Haas also because her parents took no care in their response to consider how their view of this relationship would damage her psyche. Haas was not feeling harmed or used when she ended the relationship. She ended it because she had moved onto another relationship.

50-2500 years ago, this was a normal sort of relationship, and (for heterosexuals) often led to marriage.

It's only frowned upon now because of the potential for abuse of power, like a DUI where there was no car crash this time.

JLH is wrong for that reason. (Use Tinder or a bar like a normal person).

Haas is only wrong for using the scandal to promote herself and her bad writing.

Sexual relations between adults and teens (and sometimes children) have the same problem. It's wrong, but the youth gets victimized further because the anger at the adult creates the astigmatic situation where everyone has to show how deeply damaged the youth is, to justify punishing the adult more. So the youth is told how horrible it was and how disgusting it was and how broken they are, and how their own feelings are wrong, to feed the bloodlust of the onlookers.

Up to now - you are the only one saying Haas is wrong for anything in this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m confused a professor and a student had sex?

And what else?

The parents found out after it was over - reported it to Stanford - Dean left - student felt guilty about Dean having to leave and then had to deal with that mental baggage along with her parents telling her how horrible the relationship was (being an inappropriate relationship for the Dean doesn't mean it wasn't a genuine one from both sides).

Yes - the Dean was wrong and should not be at the school.... but it seems like this was a genuine relationship that ended in a normal "ran its course" manner.

is it against the rules ? I think it should be but the fact is professors bang students and me thinking it skeevy doesn’t matter, it’s legal and allowed.

Per the article, at Stanford - it is against the rules since 2013 - but it wasn't officially a rule in 2011 when this occurred.

[Anonymous]

On her Instagram, JLH seems to indicate both she and her husband have come out as queer for Pride Month. That may explain why her husband was okay with the affair.

[Anonymous]

Interesting timing with the publication of Consent by Jill Climent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They handled that in a very mature manner.

Right, this type of thing had gone on since time immemorial in academia. It sounds like when the affair I occurred , the student was 22 and the school had no policy against it.

I was asked out by my professor at the U of Michigan, in grad school. And when I was at Johns Hopkins, a married department chair started an affair with a student he was supervising . It was wrong, but absolutely known by the whole department.

I am happy that such situations have been officially banned now, in some universities . But that is a recent development and people are naive if they did know how common (and condoned) this has been historically.

(For shocked posters, read up on Emmanuel Macron’s marriage!)

It’s discouraged but I don’t think it’s universally banned nor should it be. Some of these relationships end happily in long term relationships. As long as the dynamic is not coercive and there is no harassment, I don’t see the problem. It seems wrong to dictate to grown adults who they can and can’t fall in love with.

I figure you're the same PP who keeps coming back and making a huge effort to normalize this "relationship" and excuse it, while also being sure to throw the parents under the bus. Maybe there's more than one of you here, twisting yourselves into pretzels to try to make this a love match between adults.

You have no grasp of the idea that some relationships have a power differential. Even between "grown adults." At the time of this affair the student was just that, an undergraduate student, and her lover was a dean. Not even some garden-variety grad student or adjunct--a powerful dean. The fact you keep returning to insist this is how things were in the past, how some people end up "happily in long term relationships," etc. etc. ad nauseam, is jaw-dropping. Either you're very naive about power differentials or you have been in such a relationship yourself and feel it was true love. Feelings are not the issue. Authority figures having sexual relationships with people under their authority is the issue. The dean should have kept her mitts off the undergrad, feelings or not, even if the student was hot for her. End of story. Your excuse-making, which I'm sure you see as mature and subtle thinking, only comes off here as grotesque.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On her Instagram, JLH seems to indicate both she and her husband have come out as queer for Pride Month. That may explain why her husband was okay with the affair.

Trying to soften the blow that this news about the affair is going to have. By hijacking Pride to come out, so she can distract people with that, and maybe at the same time, portray herself as a noble advocate and not a predatory older authority figure. Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

The massive differential in power is what's disturbing to me. Yes, both women were adults, but it's hard not to see this as predatory given that JLH was in such an obvious position of authority at Stanford.

IMHO, there are definitely trade-offs that come with taking a Dean position like that. To me, the Deans have a fiduciary duty of sorts to the students at the school, in part because there's some counseling and support function mixed in there along with the straightforward authority.

To me, this feels predatory - not because of the age difference and not because it wasn't technically mutual. But because of the context. If this were my college senior (or if I were looking back now on myself as a college senior), it's so clear to me that this relationship was 100% inappropriate. I can't believe it hasn't become public until now. Shame on Stanford!