Are the non "W" schools really that bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of nonW kid here and it's been great. I almost laughed at your message - no offense meant, but I just can't get over that people think the non W schools are so scary. Just strikes me as a really dated way of thinking. If I'm being 100 percent honest, I'd be nervous to send my kid to a W school (I know people won't believe me, but it's true). My kids' friends at nonW school are super down to earth, and I think a lot more so, on average, than a typical W school kid. Also minor plusses of nonW are that college admissions and making sports teams will generally be more competitive at W schools than nonW.

Your writing style tells us all we need to know about your expectations regarding academic excellence.

And us yours. I hope your kids will still talk to you after you pushed them too far to “excel”. Or are you the type to harass teachers until they give your DC the grade they “deserve”? Not all kids want to be in that type of atmosphere. You sound exhausting. I’d rather be with the parent above. A real person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

The bolded.

Moreover, there's substantial research showing that attending what are called "high-achieving schools" is a specific risk factor for adverse outcomes in adolescent mental health, so much so that it's one of the top four factors (the others are poverty, trauma, and discrimination). Now, pretty much all the high schools within MCPS would meet the research definition of a "high-achieving school," but there are differences between the culture of various schools that make some (the Ws) more "high-achieving" than others. One study here, in case you're interested: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-65949-001

I'm a W graduate and we're in-bounds for the DCC. You literally could not pay me to send my kids to a W school at this point. I know what the non-W schools are like and I prefer those for my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

+1

Children of affluent educated people perform well and that's why the perception is that the W schools are the "best." OP, the fact is that your children will do as well at Richard Montgomery or Quince Orchard (or Blair or Einstein) as they would at Whitman or Wooton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

+1

Children of affluent educated people perform well and that's why the perception is that the W schools are the "best." OP, the fact is that your children will do as well at Richard Montgomery or Quince Orchard (or Blair or Einstein) as they would at Whitman or Wooton.

Cohort matters. Teachers set the stage, but students bring a school to life. Teachers can't remove bad influences from the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

The bolded.

Moreover, there's substantial research showing that attending what are called "high-achieving schools" is a specific risk factor for adverse outcomes in adolescent mental health, so much so that it's one of the top four factors (the others are poverty, trauma, and discrimination). Now, pretty much all the high schools within MCPS would meet the research definition of a "high-achieving school," but there are differences between the culture of various schools that make some (the Ws) more "high-achieving" than others. One study here, in case you're interested: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-65949-001

I'm a W graduate and we're in-bounds for the DCC. You literally could not pay me to send my kids to a W school at this point. I know what the non-W schools are like and I prefer those for my kids.

I completely agree that there are many, many outstanding schools in all of MCPS. I do want to jump in to say that WJ has been wonderful for my kid. You can avoid the pressure stuff by instilling and reinforcing your own family values. Just like there are smart kids everywhere in MCPS, there is a range of experiences at WJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

+1

Children of affluent educated people perform well and that's why the perception is that the W schools are the "best." OP, the fact is that your children will do as well at Richard Montgomery or Quince Orchard (or Blair or Einstein) as they would at Whitman or Wooton.

Cohort matters. Teachers set the stage, but students bring a school to life. Teachers can't remove bad influences from the classroom.

There are "bad influences" at the W schools too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

+1

Children of affluent educated people perform well and that's why the perception is that the W schools are the "best." OP, the fact is that your children will do as well at Richard Montgomery or Quince Orchard (or Blair or Einstein) as they would at Whitman or Wooton.

Cohort matters. Teachers set the stage, but students bring a school to life. Teachers can't remove bad influences from the classroom.

There are "bad influences" at the W schools too.

And there are high achieving cohorts at non W schools, ymmv, of course, but QO and RM have plenty of high achieving students for a good sized cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

The bolded.

Moreover, there's substantial research showing that attending what are called "high-achieving schools" is a specific risk factor for adverse outcomes in adolescent mental health, so much so that it's one of the top four factors (the others are poverty, trauma, and discrimination). Now, pretty much all the high schools within MCPS would meet the research definition of a "high-achieving school," but there are differences between the culture of various schools that make some (the Ws) more "high-achieving" than others. One study here, in case you're interested: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-65949-001

I'm a W graduate and we're in-bounds for the DCC. You literally could not pay me to send my kids to a W school at this point. I know what the non-W schools are like and I prefer those for my kids.

I completely agree that there are many, many outstanding schools in all of MCPS. I do want to jump in to say that WJ has been wonderful for my kid. You can avoid the pressure stuff by instilling and reinforcing your own family values. Just like there are smart kids everywhere in MCPS, there is a range of experiences at WJ.

PP you're quoting - the bolded is incorrect. You can *mitigate* some of the "pressure stuff," but you absolutely cannot eliminate it entirely. It's the water you swim in. I'm glad WJ has been great for your kid; it was for me, too, back in the day. That there's a range of experience at those schools does not preclude the fact that overall, very highly achieving schools increase risk for kids generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, I understand that this is probably a hot button topic, but I need a bit of insight here.

My wife, my self, and our three year old daughter are planning on moving to Montgomery County sometime in 2025. We currently live on the west coast. She grew up going to MCPS and her parents still live in the area (which is why we're moving back). I lived in DC for a few years in the early 2010's, so I'm familiar with the area as a whole, but not as intimately familiar with the suburbs as my wife and her family are.

From my understanding, the "W" schools in MCPS are very high performing, and we'd love to move to an area zoned for a W school, but, they're pretty expensive and at the top of our price range. There are other houses outside the W schools that are more affordable, but when I brought up the idea of moving to one of these neighborhoods, my wife and IL's acted like it would be like sending our daughter to go to a school in a third world country. Is the gap between the W and non-W schools really that big? FWIW, the non-W schools we'd be looking at are Quince Orchard and Richard Montgomery.

I wouldn't move here just for the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

+1

Children of affluent educated people perform well and that's why the perception is that the W schools are the "best." OP, the fact is that your children will do as well at Richard Montgomery or Quince Orchard (or Blair or Einstein) as they would at Whitman or Wooton.

This is only partially true. When the majority of the student body performs at a lower level the teachers and administrators supports and expectations follow. The same is true when the majority of the student body is higher achieving. The PTA matters, too. I can not enumerate the extras provided by a strong PTA. Our W provides college prep seminars for both parents and students on a regular basis. Paid college advisors are clamoring to hold free sessions at our school because they understand that enough of our parents will follow up with paid services. You will not get that in the poorly perfor.ing schools. Furthermore, our strong parental presence keeps pressure on administrators to retain teachers who go above and beyond in the classroom.

Those who would have you believe it is as simple as what happens at home must be unaware of what they are missing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good morning OP. The answer to your question is NO. There are plenty of wonderful schools and communities outside of the W’s. There are plenty of engaged families whose kid are thriving and going on to be successful who go to schools outside of the W’s. There are plenty of highly capable teachers outside of the W’s.

The zones outside the W’s are more diverse both racially and socioeconomically. That’s it.

+1

Children of affluent educated people perform well and that's why the perception is that the W schools are the "best." OP, the fact is that your children will do as well at Richard Montgomery or Quince Orchard (or Blair or Einstein) as they would at Whitman or Wooton.

This is only partially true. When the majority of the student body performs at a lower level the teachers and administrators supports and expectations follow. The same is true when the majority of the student body is higher achieving. The PTA matters, too. I can not enumerate the extras provided by a strong PTA. Our W provides college prep seminars for both parents and students on a regular basis. Paid college advisors are clamoring to hold free sessions at our school because they understand that enough of our parents will follow up with paid services. You will not get that in the poorly perfor.ing schools. Furthermore, our strong parental presence keeps pressure on administrators to retain teachers who go above and beyond in the classroom.

Those who would have you believe it is as simple as what happens at home must be unaware of what they are missing.

We have that at RM, too.

[Anonymous]

We live in Poolesville, which is non-W and I love it! There is a little diversity with the magnets at the high school as our child is in SMCS. But, the ES and MS have a little splash of diversity which is fine. Everyone is nice and we like the slow, country atmosphere and we love to hike and kayak at C&O. Also, some areas of Damascus and Brookeville and Olney have very little diversity like the W schools and are high performing as well. Visit the different areas OP and decide what you like.

[Anonymous]

We are at Paint Branch HS and really like it. It’s a newer building built in 2012. Great teachers and lots of varied programs.
I think MCPS as a whole right now is having problems, I don’t love the large class sizes. Biut that’s happening at every school.

[Anonymous]

I think folks are focused on HS because that's what OP stressed, but just a reminder that OP has a toddler, which means they need will attend school for 9 years before HS.

On the ES level, the so-called W-schools are even more segregated than at the HS level and concerns about "pressure cooker" environments can manifest earlier. In very high needs schools (none of which are IB for QO or RM), this is also the age when serious behaviors based on trauma/poverty can begin to manifest.

At the HS level, almost any MCPS HS is going to have strong cohorts, and any MCPS HS is going to have bad influences. The "shape" of those bad influences might look different, but they exist everywhere.

I'd argue that MS is the weakest link throughout MCPS, and maybe the place where the "cohort" argument is the most salient -- the "honors for all" approach means that all of the classes are heterogeneous even as kids are really starting to decide whether or not they are going to try at school.

[Anonymous]

Only BCC. And they'd be fine if only they'd embrace their W-ness with open arms!