Kids and “work before play”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But school is work. And a long day. I think kids need that veg time after school.

I agree with is but with DC(6, 9) we do not allow screens at this time. The can relax, play with toys, play outside, etc but in order to get and screens, the need to do home work first.

We do something similar, though we also try to direct towards non-screen activities for after homework. My kids might choose to listen to a favorite podcast or play a board game with parents instead of screen time.

One thing we are very conscious of is not creating the expectation that screens are how you relax, always. They can be a way to relax, and we do family movie nights and unlimited screens on sick days, plus screen time can be a reward for other things, including chores and homework. But we don't want it to be automatic, like "okay we cleaned our rooms now screens" or "okay homework is done now screens." This is because of our own experiences with screen addiction and working hard to break those habits. I now sleep with my phone in another room and force myself to read books instead of looking at my phone when we travel, because I'd just become so screen addicted. So we want to teach good habits to our kids too and help them learn there are other ways to relax or "veg out" than staring at screens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe in "work before play" but I think I have a totally different outlook/approach to you.

First off, we don't view screen time as "play time" and it's not something my kids are entitled to daily. They can watch screens, but they don't have iPads and screen time usually means sitting down to watch a TV show or movie. And those have a finite length. Sure, I might say "okay you can watch 4 episodes of Bluey" because those episodes are short. But the only time we let our kids camp out and just let the shows autoplay is if they are sick and need to be resting anyway. Otherwise it's "yes you can watch this one show." And that makes it easy to say they need to clean up their rooms or put away toys or finish homework before watching, because it's a discrete thing.

Yes they whine and complain sometimes when I say they need to finish homework or chores before playing (or watching TV, which again, I don't view as a play activity). Oh well. Kids whine sometimes. If they straight up refuse, then they don't get the play or screen reward, it's an easy built in consequence.

Sometimes they will resist doing the "work" because they are tired, and I can see that they are genuinely very tired. This most often happens in the afternoon or evening after a busy day of school or other activities. In those cases, I will sometimes acknowledge that they are reasonably worn out, and let them watch TV as a way to rest or relax. It still has a time limit on it (we never watch TV without a set time limit). And we might allow them to postpone certain chores until the next day if it's clear they need to rest and the chores aren't urgent. Or sometimes we'll help them complete the chore if they need some help. It's important to remember that kids often work really hard at school and they need breaks just like adults. If some nights we do takeout or put off the laundry because we're totally wiped out from work, we have to allow the kids to do that too. The work is the stuff we did all day, and sometimes you just need to come home and veg out a little to recover.

Bluey? Come back to us when you have a middle school kid. Even if you wait until 8th, the time will come when you have to actually deal with these issues.

OP has a kindergartener and a 3rd grader, as well as a middle schooler. This is also an issue with elementary kids and OP is obviously asking for those kids as well. I'd also argue that setting these expectations with younger kids can make it easier when they are older because the habits and boundaries are firmly in place as you begin to deal with issues like texting with friends and social media.

I'm the PP and I have a kid in 1st (who still watches Bluey) and a kid in 4th. The 4th grader mostly watches movies, not TV shows. Neither of my kids just watch YouTube on autoplay all day. If that's an issue you are dealing with in middle school, my suggestion is that you were too lax about screen time when they were younger.

Come back to us when you learn how to set limits and parent properly.

No, not lax. I had it all figured out when my oldest was in 4th grade.

Then the kids got older. And what worked when they were younger wasn't what was needed when they were older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My middle schooler is at school all day (work), followed by sports or violin (work) and when she gets home and wants to veg out for an hour (play) before dinner, homework (work) and practicing her violin (work) I'm fine with it. The Ask Lisa podcast had an interesting episode lately about the tendency towards "optimizing" our kids like everything else in our life, and how that is not a great practice.

If she didn't get her stuff done I would switch up the schedule but I think the natural schedule is more work before play.

This.

Plus they should learn to look away from screens every 15 minutes during homework to protect their eyes and get up and walk around ever 40 minutes to protect their body and brain

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My middle schooler is at school all day (work), followed by sports or violin (work) and when she gets home and wants to veg out for an hour (play) before dinner, homework (work) and practicing her violin (work) I'm fine with it. The Ask Lisa podcast had an interesting episode lately about the tendency towards "optimizing" our kids like everything else in our life, and how that is not a great practice.

If she didn't get her stuff done I would switch up the schedule but I think the natural schedule is more work before play.

+1. Honestly, my HSer's "work" day rivals mine, and I am a lawyer at a law firm. One of the things that's important to teach is how to refresh and then get back to work. Screens are not bad per se but they are not truly refreshing. That's the issue.

[Anonymous]

About half the school year it gets dark within an hour of my middle schooler arriving home from school. I also agree kids need some time to veg out after school. I just try to prioritize him getting outside with friends whenever possible. After outside time he will work on homework at the kitchen island while I fix dinner. He actually manages to complete most of his homework at school, but if he needs help or to talk anything over this pre-dinner time is when it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe in "work before play" but I think I have a totally different outlook/approach to you.

First off, we don't view screen time as "play time" and it's not something my kids are entitled to daily. They can watch screens, but they don't have iPads and screen time usually means sitting down to watch a TV show or movie. And those have a finite length. Sure, I might say "okay you can watch 4 episodes of Bluey" because those episodes are short. But the only time we let our kids camp out and just let the shows autoplay is if they are sick and need to be resting anyway. Otherwise it's "yes you can watch this one show." And that makes it easy to say they need to clean up their rooms or put away toys or finish homework before watching, because it's a discrete thing.

Yes they whine and complain sometimes when I say they need to finish homework or chores before playing (or watching TV, which again, I don't view as a play activity). Oh well. Kids whine sometimes. If they straight up refuse, then they don't get the play or screen reward, it's an easy built in consequence.

Sometimes they will resist doing the "work" because they are tired, and I can see that they are genuinely very tired. This most often happens in the afternoon or evening after a busy day of school or other activities. In those cases, I will sometimes acknowledge that they are reasonably worn out, and let them watch TV as a way to rest or relax. It still has a time limit on it (we never watch TV without a set time limit). And we might allow them to postpone certain chores until the next day if it's clear they need to rest and the chores aren't urgent. Or sometimes we'll help them complete the chore if they need some help. It's important to remember that kids often work really hard at school and they need breaks just like adults. If some nights we do takeout or put off the laundry because we're totally wiped out from work, we have to allow the kids to do that too. The work is the stuff we did all day, and sometimes you just need to come home and veg out a little to recover.

Bluey? Come back to us when you have a middle school kid. Even if you wait until 8th, the time will come when you have to actually deal with these issues.

OP has a kindergartener and a 3rd grader, as well as a middle schooler. This is also an issue with elementary kids and OP is obviously asking for those kids as well. I'd also argue that setting these expectations with younger kids can make it easier when they are older because the habits and boundaries are firmly in place as you begin to deal with issues like texting with friends and social media.

I'm the PP and I have a kid in 1st (who still watches Bluey) and a kid in 4th. The 4th grader mostly watches movies, not TV shows. Neither of my kids just watch YouTube on autoplay all day. If that's an issue you are dealing with in middle school, my suggestion is that you were too lax about screen time when they were younger.

Come back to us when you learn how to set limits and parent properly.

No, not lax. I had it all figured out when my oldest was in 4th grade.

Then the kids got older. And what worked when they were younger wasn't what was needed when they were older.

Look, if you want to offer advice to OP based on your experience parenting older kids, have at it. I have two kids who are close in age to two of OP's kids, and have found a solution to this problem that works well for my family, and shared it. I'm not going to apologize for that. Obviously older kids might need something different. If you know what that is, feel free to share it -- I won't weigh in as it is out of my wheelhouse. Stop attacking me just because you are apparently mad that I am happy with the balance we've struck on screens and homework and chores for my elementary age kids.

Ask yourself why other people's confidence and competence with regards to parenting triggers you this much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My middle schooler is at school all day (work), followed by sports or violin (work) and when she gets home and wants to veg out for an hour (play) before dinner, homework (work) and practicing her violin (work) I'm fine with it. The Ask Lisa podcast had an interesting episode lately about the tendency towards "optimizing" our kids like everything else in our life, and how that is not a great practice.

If she didn't get her stuff done I would switch up the schedule but I think the natural schedule is more work before play.

+1. Honestly, my HSer's "work" day rivals mine, and I am a lawyer at a law firm. One of the things that's important to teach is how to refresh and then get back to work. Screens are not bad per se but they are not truly refreshing. That's the issue.

This. And this becomes obvious early when kids watch screens and then freak out when you try to turn them off. It's something we talk about explicitly with our kids -- why do you think it's so hard to turn this off? why do you find it harder to switch from screens to another fun activity than to do the reverse?

Screen addiction is real. It is never too early to start teaching kids that you HAVE to limit screen exposure, and that taking care of yourself sometimes means forcing yourself to choose exercise, reading, or rest over staring at a screen, even when the pull is very strong (sometimes especially when it's very strong).

[Anonymous]

Screentime limits help a lot. We also do a total of 1 hours per day that they can use however they want (iPad, switch or TV). They get to decide when and how to use it. Leaves lots of hours to get the stuff done.


For homework, I use aftercare (free at our school), where they encourage the kids to do HM immediately. That set up some very good habits. I pick them up after 45 minutes or so and then they can just relax at home.

[Anonymous]

(I also talk to the kids about addiction and th addictive nature of screens, so they know they need external limits otherwise they will get sucked in.)

[Anonymous]

Look, the goal here is to get your kids to make good choices with their time such that they are completing any necessary tasks and having time for free play.

When we were doing this with the kids I would show them on a chart everything that was at a fixed time (school, after school activities, church, etc) and then all of the blocks of time that I or DH could play with them or help them with a task or homework.

This prompted them to think about what they wanted to do with a parent (high value) and how to get the rest done by themselves.

We would have them create their own schedule based on what they wanted to do when and how to fit it all in. I would give a set amount of time to work on homework (based on what they thought they needed). We also would set up times where the family would all read together.

I think it is so important to give kids as much agency over their time as possible. They are so scheduled and have so few opportunities to choose in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. It is my goal and so far it seems to be a long process, teaching "do everything you need to do before doing things you want to do (i.e. screens)".

Also, when we were kids, TV would eventually get boring, and even in my 20s at a boring job, I would reach the end of the internet. But now, videos are endless and kids can watch content 247 forever without running out or getting bored.

Yours is the first comment, I’m going to try to read each one, because this is truly a challenge for me that’s cutting deep to the heart of our family. We’ve always been a little bit more of a DOING family. No iPads. We go for things. With kids 6+, were molding into less activity, more screen life.

I have a family member who I admire that approaches it opposite of me. They let the kids have it all. All the screens. There are some positives to the kids regulating this on their own. But I also see her complain about it. And they’re on till like 4am sometimes. I don’t think it’s good. Not for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When mine were in ES, the rule was 1 hour of screentime on school days and they could choose when. And they had some chores and a bit of homework, including at least 30 min of reading. How they scheduled it was up to them.

When we struggled with them doing what was needed to get out in the mornings I made cards showing each task and that worked well. So we also did them for afterschool. The visual/tactile reminders cut down on my nagging.

I think your problem is it sounds like you are being very controlling about when they do things so they don't have space to make choices.

I find I have a hard time setting a routine right now. All 3 kids are at different schedules and stages. The school schedule alone is different, and with a few activities.

If I set a routine, it’s so hard to enforce and keep on top of it. Talk about controlling. I’m trying to be looser — get your work done and you’re good! Instead of like “this time we do this, this time we do this.” It’s too much for us as parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Screentime limits help a lot. We also do a total of 1 hours per day that they can use however they want (iPad, switch or TV). They get to decide when and how to use it. Leaves lots of hours to get the stuff done.


For homework, I use aftercare (free at our school), where they encourage the kids to do HM immediately. That set up some very good habits. I pick them up after 45 minutes or so and then they can just relax at home.

+1 on aftercare, and I've actually learned some good routines/habits from the aftercare program that we also institute at home on days without aftercare or on the weekend.

I have a 1st grader who gets a packet of homework each week that gets turned in on Mondays. The aftercare program has the 1st grade kids sit down and work on homework for 10 minutes at the beginning of the aftercare session, and after that they can go participate in one of the activities or do free play on their own. It does not matter how much they get done in the 10 minutes, and if they want to stay and work longer they can. The point is just to get them in the habit of working on a little a day. The teacher is nearby and available if they have questions or need some help.

It's great because it sets good habits in the "work before play" vein, but it's age-appropriate in terms of not forcing tons of homework time on kids who are likely already pretty tired after a day of school. And DD is learning that if she just puts in a little time each day, it gets done without having to scramble to finish it on Sunday night. Some weeks it's done by Tuesday or Wednesday, and then she gets more free time the rest of the week. It's a very good lesson for her to be learning at this age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think our parents did have to enforce their rules way more than we remember — I bet if you asked them they would tell you what a slog it was to ask you 15 times to turn off the tv and come set the table. That being said, I do get your point; there’s just so many more screen options these days.

I think part of the problem you’re facing is that by including “play outside” as part of the work they have to do before playing, they naturally think of it as work. What happens if you block time they can play different ways (but they have to do chores before any of it starts)? So they have whatever their Saturday morning chores are and once they’ve finished them they’re allowed to play outside. Then in the afternoon they have different afternoon chores and one those are done they’re allowed play with crafts. Then in the evening once evening chores are done they’re allowed to play on screens. Or set locations for morning/afternoon/evening play: eg, morning play can be in the yard or in your bedrooms, afternoon play can be in the yard or in the playroom, evening play can be in your bedroom or the family room (assuming the family room is where screens are stored).

I like this. I guess I was adding those more fun, yet still fruitful, things in to NOT make it all chores. More like, let’s do real life first. Some typical chores, some practice for extracurricular that you genuinely love but don’t alllways want to do, some fun, some helping me out side-by-side. A variety.

But overall I like your comment about blocking it out!

[Anonymous]

I don't have any answers, but our family therapist has been insistent with my ASD child that the phrase is: "Work before play, and play before screens".

Play can be a sport, reading for pleasure, playing with the dog/pets, a game, whatever. But screens are not considered "Play" in our house because they're so addictive.