Basic manners

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a stickler for manners when I was a kid and I remember asking why she didn’t correct me any more when I was like 17 (as I self corrected by taking my elbows of the table). She says she figured out habits were largely formed by 13 and she had more important things to spend her influence on. And I (and she) seem to feel me and my sisters turned out well so I say 13 — maybe 15 at the outside. Unless they ask for your help. I asked my parents for help with my first cover letters I think; that’s manners of a sort.

What’s wrong with your mother caring about manners? What kind of manners are we talking about here?

[Anonymous]

I wasn’t aware after a certain age you stopped being a parent? I am 33 and I’m pretty sure if I did something idiotic my parents would still correct me or call me out on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a stickler for manners when I was a kid and I remember asking why she didn’t correct me any more when I was like 17 (as I self corrected by taking my elbows of the table). She says she figured out habits were largely formed by 13 and she had more important things to spend her influence on. And I (and she) seem to feel me and my sisters turned out well so I say 13 — maybe 15 at the outside. Unless they ask for your help. I asked my parents for help with my first cover letters I think; that’s manners of a sort.

What’s wrong with your mother caring about manners? What kind of manners are we talking about here?

DP my DD knew to put the restaurant napkin on her lap at 9 years old. So I kinda get what the PP is saying. Manners are instilled early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a stickler for manners when I was a kid and I remember asking why she didn’t correct me any more when I was like 17 (as I self corrected by taking my elbows of the table). She says she figured out habits were largely formed by 13 and she had more important things to spend her influence on. And I (and she) seem to feel me and my sisters turned out well so I say 13 — maybe 15 at the outside. Unless they ask for your help. I asked my parents for help with my first cover letters I think; that’s manners of a sort.

What’s wrong with your mother caring about manners? What kind of manners are we talking about here?

Nothing wrong with caring about manners; I’m incredibly grateful for my mother training me to be polite my whole childhood! Having it as second nature had made the social aspects of adult life easy and natural. And to answer what sort of manners I’m referring to: table manners, consideration for elders, how to carry on a conversation the other person enjoys, how to be a considerate host/guest, how to show appreciation for others, how to live peacefully in a shared household, etc. No idea what OP means by manners though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a stickler for manners when I was a kid and I remember asking why she didn’t correct me any more when I was like 17 (as I self corrected by taking my elbows of the table). She says she figured out habits were largely formed by 13 and she had more important things to spend her influence on. And I (and she) seem to feel me and my sisters turned out well so I say 13 — maybe 15 at the outside. Unless they ask for your help. I asked my parents for help with my first cover letters I think; that’s manners of a sort.

What’s wrong with your mother caring about manners? What kind of manners are we talking about here?

DP my DD knew to put the restaurant napkin on her lap at 9 years old. So I kinda get what the PP is saying. Manners are instilled early.

I’m still failing to see how that is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a stickler for manners when I was a kid and I remember asking why she didn’t correct me any more when I was like 17 (as I self corrected by taking my elbows of the table). She says she figured out habits were largely formed by 13 and she had more important things to spend her influence on. And I (and she) seem to feel me and my sisters turned out well so I say 13 — maybe 15 at the outside. Unless they ask for your help. I asked my parents for help with my first cover letters I think; that’s manners of a sort.

What’s wrong with your mother caring about manners? What kind of manners are we talking about here?

DP my DD knew to put the restaurant napkin on her lap at 9 years old. So I kinda get what the PP is saying. Manners are instilled early.

I’m still failing to see how that is a problem.

And I’m still failing to understand why you think anyone thinks it’s a problem? This is presented as a positive thing — put in your time ensuring your 9yo can behave at restaurants and you won’t be explaining it to a 20yo.

[Anonymous]

Probably on the spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother was a stickler for manners when I was a kid and I remember asking why she didn’t correct me any more when I was like 17 (as I self corrected by taking my elbows of the table). She says she figured out habits were largely formed by 13 and she had more important things to spend her influence on. And I (and she) seem to feel me and my sisters turned out well so I say 13 — maybe 15 at the outside. Unless they ask for your help. I asked my parents for help with my first cover letters I think; that’s manners of a sort.

What’s wrong with your mother caring about manners? What kind of manners are we talking about here?

DP my DD knew to put the restaurant napkin on her lap at 9 years old. So I kinda get what the PP is saying. Manners are instilled early.

I’m still failing to see how that is a problem.

And I’m still failing to understand why you think anyone thinks it’s a problem? This is presented as a positive thing — put in your time ensuring your 9yo can behave at restaurants and you won’t be explaining it to a 20yo.

This.

[Anonymous]

I’m 40 now. It took a shockingly long time for my mother to stop saying “remember your manners” any time (or at least it felt like anytime) she heard of me leaving my house.

[Anonymous]

OP here, to answer questions. They are fully financially dependent on us as they work for the family business.

I'm not a Martha Post kind of person, but the examples are:

Married with kids and will only attend events that are fully paid by us or other family members. They never offer to pay and never say thank you. Other family members will no longer invite them to events as a result.

They speak loudly about money all the time. So much so that family members also are fully aware that they cannot be trusted when it comes to matters of inheritance.

They don't give small courtesy to others. Whether it's answering a simple question or giving people notice of something they have to plan for they just don't.

They cut people off very quickly without provocation. Just one day they are no longer speaking to BIL that lives behind them (been going on 2+ years now).

In other words, it's just total lack of generosity in life. It's always about what they can get out of someone. Now that I wrote it out it sounds like just a total lack of desire to reciprocate relationships and just a very taker kind of attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, to answer questions. They are fully financially dependent on us as they work for the family business.

I'm not a Martha Post kind of person, but the examples are:

Married with kids and will only attend events that are fully paid by us or other family members. They never offer to pay and never say thank you. Other family members will no longer invite them to events as a result.

They speak loudly about money all the time. So much so that family members also are fully aware that they cannot be trusted when it comes to matters of inheritance.

They don't give small courtesy to others. Whether it's answering a simple question or giving people notice of something they have to plan for they just don't.

They cut people off very quickly without provocation. Just one day they are no longer speaking to BIL that lives behind them (been going on 2+ years now).

That is the problem of working for the family business. They've been coasting, never had to work with other people in a position where their value to the organization is judged nor felt the need to be with a team player or leader. They are in a special category where they can get away with behaving badly without consequence.

In other words, it's just total lack of generosity in life. It's always about what they can get out of someone. Now that I wrote it out it sounds like just a total lack of desire to reciprocate relationships and just a very taker kind of attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, to answer questions. They are fully financially dependent on us as they work for the family business.

I'm not a Martha Post kind of person, but the examples are:

Married with kids and will only attend events that are fully paid by us or other family members. They never offer to pay and never say thank you. Other family members will no longer invite them to events as a result.

They speak loudly about money all the time. So much so that family members also are fully aware that they cannot be trusted when it comes to matters of inheritance.

They don't give small courtesy to others. Whether it's answering a simple question or giving people notice of something they have to plan for they just don't.

They cut people off very quickly without provocation. Just one day they are no longer speaking to BIL that lives behind them (been going on 2+ years now).

In other words, it's just total lack of generosity in life. It's always about what they can get out of someone. Now that I wrote it out it sounds like just a total lack of desire to reciprocate relationships and just a very taker kind of attitude.

Ooops, typed into the wrong place, here it is again -
That is the problem of working for the family business. They've been coasting, never had to work with other people in a position where their value to the organization is judged nor felt the need to be with a team player or leader. They are in a special category where they can get away with behaving badly without consequence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, to answer questions. They are fully financially dependent on us as they work for the family business.

I'm not a Martha Post kind of person, but the examples are:

Married with kids and will only attend events that are fully paid by us or other family members. They never offer to pay and never say thank you. Other family members will no longer invite them to events as a result.

They speak loudly about money all the time. So much so that family members also are fully aware that they cannot be trusted when it comes to matters of inheritance.

They don't give small courtesy to others. Whether it's answering a simple question or giving people notice of something they have to plan for they just don't.

They cut people off very quickly without provocation. Just one day they are no longer speaking to BIL that lives behind them (been going on 2+ years now).

In other words, it's just total lack of generosity in life. It's always about what they can get out of someone. Now that I wrote it out it sounds like just a total lack of desire to reciprocate relationships and just a very taker kind of attitude.

Wow. I'm floored. I cannot even imagine my adult kids doing anything remotely like this. Either there is something fundamentally wrong with them or they simply were not raised right. That's all I can come up with.

[Anonymous]

What you’re describing OP sounds like it’s less about manners and more of a character problem. They need to experience the real world - outside of the bubble of the family business - to learn some humility, empathy and gratitude. Until they understand just how much they have and how hard people have to work for money, security, relationships, etc, they will never value them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you’re describing OP sounds like it’s less about manners and more of a character problem. They need to experience the real world - outside of the bubble of the family business - to learn some humility, empathy and gratitude. Until they understand just how much they have and how hard people have to work for money, security, relationships, etc, they will never value them.

This. Your situation is way beyond basic manners. It's the fundamentals of kindness and empathy.

You sound very enmeshed and you have sheltered your child from consequences for far too long. A job outside the family is what your child truly needs.