Partner manipulating marriage therapy — advice?

[Anonymous]

Super common. Happens everyday.
Get busy or postpone any activity you don’t benefit from.

[Anonymous]

Just get divorced! Why are you doing this to yourself?

[Anonymous]

Go get yourself a very good divorce attorney. File for separation asap. With the credit card stuff, you need to protect yourself.

You should not be doing marriage therapy with someone like that. He does not need a therapist, he needs a psychiatrist. It sounds like he has not been properly diagnosed and treated. I’d be skeptical of any therapist that didn’t see that immediately and refer him on.

Do you also have mental illness? Make sure you are treated as well as necessary. You both need to be as good as you can be for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a family member who divorced a man with bipolar disorder that made violent threats against her. He served her when they were leaving a joint therapy session. He got a men's rights lawyer and attempted to manipulate the judge and the child custody evaluator into believing that she was abusive to him and secretly doing drugs in front of the kids. He had zero interest in parenting, but asked for 70% custody for himself and all legal decision making power. It took a year and a half for her to settle it, which included her being drug tested off of nothing but his false claims.

You have no idea how much danger you are in. Family court judges and custody evaluators are very aware of the perception that men don't get an equal shake in custody cases and have overcorrected as of late to believe men more than women. His claims against you may be taken credibly by the judge, unless you act NOW to protect yourself. You need to speak to a divorce lawyer THIS WEEK.

I agree with the first paragraph. Women should stay away from all custody evaluations, all psychological evaluations, all drug tests. Don’t play the custody game. It doesn’t end well for anyone. Once one lawyer asks for it, the other does too. Don’t play into any lawyers “team” — it’s a game and not designed to help your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I’m just saying that the rage, the refusing to show you credit card statements, and the several evenings out every week - those are all affair behaviors.

OP here
I would agree with this except I think he’s too self centered right now to even offer enough to make an affair worth it for someone. Maybe. Although I guess he can be charming when he wants something.

Women who sleep with married men are not exactly paragons of good judgment, OP. She is a person just as broken as him who finds his attention appealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Background:

My DH has had anger and mental health issues on and off.

Last year he accused me of trying to kill him, assaulting him, etc. He threatened me with police, lawyers, restraining orders, divorce, public humiliation, torching my property, contacting my colleagues, etc.

We separated for a period. He refused individual therapy during this time. He harassed me with accusations and threats during the separation. I did not want to divorce when he was that escalated, as I thought a high conflict divorce would be very negative for me and the kids. Occasionally he behaved normally, and in fact many times after exploding with rage would go back to normal within minutes as if nothing happened.

We got a new marriage therapist in August. He cancelled the first session but then reluctantly went. Ranted about divorce the whole time. The guy calmly told him to go ahead. On the way home he started crying and said he didn’t want to get divorced.

We continued therapy. He calmed down a lot. He still had rage explosions but maybe monthly instead of several times a week. He was suddenly much more reasonable. He started therapy.

I was skeptical at first, but the more he stayed this way, the more I realized that he could control his behavior. The odd thing was that whenever he was called out or asked to make some effort for the relationship that he didn’t want to do, the accusations and threats came back. Like we would be talking about a more equal schedule, and suddenly he would come up with a bizarre violent thing I supposedly said or did.

Finally I confronted him about this and told him that if he really thought I did these terrible things he should get a divorce or call the police. Not sit in counseling. He stopped. He also apologized for his threats (about two months ago).

Current situation:

After the holidays, we had a therapy session that was terrible. He accused me of traumatizing the kids and ranted with anger. Would not let me speak. I asked him at the end if he would agree to show me a credit card statement that was several thousands of dollars more than usual. He refused and got even more angry and accusatory. I asked because his behavior the past month has been off. He’s hot and cold. Suspect he is moving money and maybe meeting with lawyers for a divorce.

Therapist said he needed to meet with us individually and asked us to sign releases so he could talk with our individual therapists.

What can I possibly tell the therapist that would be helpful here? I feel so frustrated and at my wits end in sessions. When he starts accusing me I am upset (last year, one of the accusations ended with a false assault charge that I had to clear in court). Knowing he most likely doesn’t believe what he says but is just trying to malign me to “win” some advantage or scare me is awful. But I feel like arguing or defending just makes things worse. And I worry that airing my side of the story makes me sound combative or defensive.

Obviously this is a miserable situation and I need to leave. I was hoping he might get treatment and we could try to talk things out. But my hopes of this are dimming. We have two young kids. I was also hoping I could stick it out for at least a few more years until the youngest is a bit older and more independent. He is a bit narcissistic with them — sometimes very warm and attentive, showering with gifts, but he does not like to do the work of parenting. He is very obviously going through a midlife crisis and spends evenings away from the house every week.

I’d be particularly interested in hearing from any therapists out there.

I've seen therapists. This story is 100% BS unless you guys have been seeing the worse possible therapists in the world. No therapist will allow either spouse to talk like this during a session - NONE. So, welcome to the Wednesday morning troll post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a family member who divorced a man with bipolar disorder that made violent threats against her. He served her when they were leaving a joint therapy session. He got a men's rights lawyer and attempted to manipulate the judge and the child custody evaluator into believing that she was abusive to him and secretly doing drugs in front of the kids. He had zero interest in parenting, but asked for 70% custody for himself and all legal decision making power. It took a year and a half for her to settle it, which included her being drug tested off of nothing but his false claims.

You have no idea how much danger you are in. Family court judges and custody evaluators are very aware of the perception that men don't get an equal shake in custody cases and have overcorrected as of late to believe men more than women. His claims against you may be taken credibly by the judge, unless you act NOW to protect yourself. You need to speak to a divorce lawyer THIS WEEK.

OP here

I’m sorry for your family member.

I did speak to a lawyer back when the false assault charge was filed. They basically told me anyone can say anything. Without evidence it’s empty.

What other “protection” can I take?

Hi OP, by protection I mean you need to initiate the divorce process before he has a chance to do it to you. He appears to be in the planning stage, and is waiting to surprise you. It will be so much harder for you starting off your case having to UNprove what he's saying versus you proposing your terms first. What's stopping him from initiating another false abuse accusation against you, and serving you a day later? Then he could file for an emergency temporary full custody petition while you get reinvestigated for abuse. I'm telling you, you have no idea how bad your life could get very soon unless you catch him off guard and file first. It's your only chance to set the record straight and minimize the potential abuse and manipulation of court professionals later.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like there’s an OW in the mix and you just don’t know it yet. Plan accordingly.

[Anonymous]

OP I would stop marriage therapy immediately and work on your divorce. Why in the world did you move back in with him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:get out and don't look back. Let him blow up. he will look bad.

This can be true - hopefully a sort of controlled demolition. He will make himself look crazy in front of the judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a family member who divorced a man with bipolar disorder that made violent threats against her. He served her when they were leaving a joint therapy session. He got a men's rights lawyer and attempted to manipulate the judge and the child custody evaluator into believing that she was abusive to him and secretly doing drugs in front of the kids. He had zero interest in parenting, but asked for 70% custody for himself and all legal decision making power. It took a year and a half for her to settle it, which included her being drug tested off of nothing but his false claims.

You have no idea how much danger you are in. Family court judges and custody evaluators are very aware of the perception that men don't get an equal shake in custody cases and have overcorrected as of late to believe men more than women. His claims against you may be taken credibly by the judge, unless you act NOW to protect yourself. You need to speak to a divorce lawyer THIS WEEK.

I agree with the first paragraph. Women should stay away from all custody evaluations, all psychological evaluations, all drug tests. Don’t play the custody game. It doesn’t end well for anyone. Once one lawyer asks for it, the other does too. Don’t play into any lawyers “team” — it’s a game and not designed to help your family.

I’m scared about this for one of my friends. Her DH has major issues but not enough IMO to lose custody permanently. But her lawyers are pushing for it, so I fear she is going to be blindsided when she has to do a custody evaluation/psychological evaluation that will reveal some of her own parenting issues.

[Anonymous]

narcissists will play this game, and make you look like the problem.

Get out of therapy (it's obviously not working), and you should probably look into getting out of your marriage. People like this don't change easily.

[Anonymous]

OP, I was married to someone like this. I see a lot of myself in your story - accepting unacceptable behavior and spending a lot of time in individual and marital therapy focusing on trying to get him to be reasonable in order to save the relationship. I understand why I did it - there is a lot of pressure in our culture about "working" on the marriage and how a two-parent family is best.

But, the reality is that your DH's behavior is abusive, and his choice to be abusive is one that he alone controls. It is deliberate - google Duluth model and coercive control. That abuse will slowly destroy you and your children.

When I made the choice about ending my relationship, I thought a lot about my kids - what would I advise them if they ever came to me with a story like my own and asked whether they should stay? I wanted to be able to tell them that they should never stay with someone abusive because they (and all humans) are worth more than that.

But, how could I tell them that, and how would they trust me if I couldn't show that I had done the same?

I ended my marriage. It didn't make my DH better, but it did give me and the kids a healthy, safe, calm home 50% of the time. Unsurprisingly, DH decided he was more interested in finding another woman than custody, so I ended up with de facto full custody.

My advice to you - get a lawyer, get copies of all financial documents and start documenting his craziness (lawyer will advise), start planning your exit, start building/calling on your circle of support, file, and focus on building a positive life for whatever amount of time you have the kids.

When you are divorced, plan to parallel parent (not coparent), grey rock him to the extent possible, do nothing beyond the custody order for him, engage only in email via a parenting app, see if you can get supervised custody exchange or if not try to always do with someone else in a public place. Try to limit any oral conversations to true emergencies.

You've got this! It gets better!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Background:

My DH has had anger and mental health issues on and off.

Last year he accused me of trying to kill him, assaulting him, etc. He threatened me with police, lawyers, restraining orders, divorce, public humiliation, torching my property, contacting my colleagues, etc.

We separated for a period. He refused individual therapy during this time. He harassed me with accusations and threats during the separation. I did not want to divorce when he was that escalated, as I thought a high conflict divorce would be very negative for me and the kids. Occasionally he behaved normally, and in fact many times after exploding with rage would go back to normal within minutes as if nothing happened.

We got a new marriage therapist in August. He cancelled the first session but then reluctantly went. Ranted about divorce the whole time. The guy calmly told him to go ahead. On the way home he started crying and said he didn’t want to get divorced.

We continued therapy. He calmed down a lot. He still had rage explosions but maybe monthly instead of several times a week. He was suddenly much more reasonable. He started therapy.

I was skeptical at first, but the more he stayed this way, the more I realized that he could control his behavior. The odd thing was that whenever he was called out or asked to make some effort for the relationship that he didn’t want to do, the accusations and threats came back. Like we would be talking about a more equal schedule, and suddenly he would come up with a bizarre violent thing I supposedly said or did.

Finally I confronted him about this and told him that if he really thought I did these terrible things he should get a divorce or call the police. Not sit in counseling. He stopped. He also apologized for his threats (about two months ago).

Current situation:

After the holidays, we had a therapy session that was terrible. He accused me of traumatizing the kids and ranted with anger. Would not let me speak. I asked him at the end if he would agree to show me a credit card statement that was several thousands of dollars more than usual. He refused and got even more angry and accusatory. I asked because his behavior the past month has been off. He’s hot and cold. Suspect he is moving money and maybe meeting with lawyers for a divorce.

Therapist said he needed to meet with us individually and asked us to sign releases so he could talk with our individual therapists.

What can I possibly tell the therapist that would be helpful here? I feel so frustrated and at my wits end in sessions. When he starts accusing me I am upset (last year, one of the accusations ended with a false assault charge that I had to clear in court). Knowing he most likely doesn’t believe what he says but is just trying to malign me to “win” some advantage or scare me is awful. But I feel like arguing or defending just makes things worse. And I worry that airing my side of the story makes me sound combative or defensive.

Obviously this is a miserable situation and I need to leave. I was hoping he might get treatment and we could try to talk things out. But my hopes of this are dimming. We have two young kids. I was also hoping I could stick it out for at least a few more years until the youngest is a bit older and more independent. He is a bit narcissistic with them — sometimes very warm and attentive, showering with gifts, but he does not like to do the work of parenting. He is very obviously going through a midlife crisis and spends evenings away from the house every week.

I’d be particularly interested in hearing from any therapists out there.

Just reread your post, in my opinion most relationships where children are involved are worth saving but this one is clearly a toxic relationship no matter who is at fault. Dissolve it by separation or divorce (whichever works better for your kids) and try to be decent coparents.

[Anonymous]

He is mentally ill.