Why are they hoarders but I’m not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents and siblings are hoarders, and I am not. Parents had a lot of storage space so their actual living space was clear and you could walk around. But storage spaces are PACKED. At least 150 boxes of junk, stacks of old newspapers, etc.

How did I “escape” this outcome?

If you boil it down to essentials, serious hoarding isn't about having not enough stuff in childhood, or about the example you had, or anything like that. It's about being unable to make decisions. When decisions are overwhelming, you put them off, and off, and off. Watch the extreme hoarding shows and see how the holder can't make rational decisions like "everything in this room has to go, or I lose the house" -- they have to touch each item, deliberate, and mostly can't make the call to let go.

That's about things like OCD and anxiety. These mental health traits and disorders have some connection to heredity, but not every child gets them. You might not be great at paring down or housecleaning if you didn't have a good example, but it's not going to make you dysfunctional. You can learn. Your siblings probably are struggling with problems you can't see and have no empathy for, especially because those ways of being aren't yours.

NP. A different way to look at this is reflected in my household.
My DH gets one room and it is a hoarder's paradise. It creeps out but for the most part is contained to that room. He is anxious and his anxiety results in this desire to not make decisions.
I am also anxious and my anxiety propels me into action, like decluttering.
We're both working on our anxiety but our default is different.

Oof, I have the exact same situation: I'm an anxious doer, he's an anxious not-doer, he has a basement room that's upsetting but that's our compromise. Thanks for laying it out so clearly.

I have an anxious parent who is a hoarder. I don't think their dynamic is the same. I would describe the hoarder as an anxious doer, usually, and that's how they accumulated the stuff. They can decide to get rid of stuff, but there's a need for control about what happens to the stuff (sale for enough $, or to someone specific, or used in a particular way). It's time consuming or impossible to make those things happen, so the stuff stays.

DP. That's a way of not making a decision. You can see that, right? It's the excuse, not the reason -- or over time, they could have spent the energy to work out those logistics. They didn't.

DP. Obviously they didn’t, but I think it’s important to note that they’re trying to change and feel helpless to do so because the problem is too big. I think it oversimplifies the issue to say they could’ve fixed it but chose to do nothing.

All I'm saying is that the difficulty is in making the decision. People frame it in all kinds of ways and then go off expending energy on fixing those tangents, but that's all wasted energy. Really, it is. If you don't address the real core problem, then you are not addressing any of it in any kind of effective way.

My mother was a hoarder. I loved her before her death, and I still love her memory. I wasted so much time and energy chasing all the "reasons" while things got worse and worse, and when she was on chemotherapy, we had to physically remove her from all the goat-trails, mold, and dead things buried in the hoard. It was traumatic for all of us, and her most of all.

If they don't address their core problems, they aren't changing, and they aren't trying to change in anything like a remotely effective way. That doesn't mean it isn't hard, PP. I know it is.

It's hard. They need specialized therapy. That's hard to do, and hard to find. It's still the only thing that really helps.

I’m so sorry your family went through all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this lack of being able to make decisions explains hoarding in many cases.

For the people I know, it's an unhealthy association between material things and memories. Oh, that's the dress I wore when I met DH (20+ years ago); that's the blanket that Larlo got in the hospital; that's the hotel brochure and restaurant menu from our honeymoon, that's the note pad I had with me on my first day of my first job (30 years ago), etc. etc.

I have a hard time disposing of things like this because it seems like I'd be throwing out the memories as well.

It does for at least most. It's all a part of the same cycle. The article below summarizing some of the research, including functional MRIs assessing decision-making. The brain throws up various different rationalizations and explanations around that, but the problem is the same.

Researchers found abnormal activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula of the brain, known for decision-making and risk assessment. The people who hoard are unable to make decisions about discarding the items they own.
...
It is unclear whether hoarding is due to heredity or environment. But half of the people who hoard have a family member who hoards. And there is evidence that links compulsive hoarding to a region on chromosome 14—which has also been linked to disorders such as Alzheimer's and other cognitive impairments.
...
Research shows that the decision-making process of a person who hoards is seriously compromised. Neuroimaging studies have revealed common traits among people who hoard; this includes having severe emotional attachments to inanimate objects and extreme anxiety when making decisions, even simple ones.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hoarding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents and siblings are hoarders, and I am not. Parents had a lot of storage space so their actual living space was clear and you could walk around. But storage spaces are PACKED. At least 150 boxes of junk, stacks of old newspapers, etc.

How did I “escape” this outcome?

If you boil it down to essentials, serious hoarding isn't about having not enough stuff in childhood, or about the example you had, or anything like that. It's about being unable to make decisions. When decisions are overwhelming, you put them off, and off, and off. Watch the extreme hoarding shows and see how the holder can't make rational decisions like "everything in this room has to go, or I lose the house" -- they have to touch each item, deliberate, and mostly can't make the call to let go.

That's about things like OCD and anxiety. These mental health traits and disorders have some connection to heredity, but not every child gets them. You might not be great at paring down or housecleaning if you didn't have a good example, but it's not going to make you dysfunctional. You can learn. Your siblings probably are struggling with problems you can't see and have no empathy for, especially because those ways of being aren't yours.

NP. A different way to look at this is reflected in my household.
My DH gets one room and it is a hoarder's paradise. It creeps out but for the most part is contained to that room. He is anxious and his anxiety results in this desire to not make decisions.
I am also anxious and my anxiety propels me into action, like decluttering.
We're both working on our anxiety but our default is different.

Oof, I have the exact same situation: I'm an anxious doer, he's an anxious not-doer, he has a basement room that's upsetting but that's our compromise. Thanks for laying it out so clearly.

I have an anxious parent who is a hoarder. I don't think their dynamic is the same. I would describe the hoarder as an anxious doer, usually, and that's how they accumulated the stuff. They can decide to get rid of stuff, but there's a need for control about what happens to the stuff (sale for enough $, or to someone specific, or used in a particular way). It's time consuming or impossible to make those things happen, so the stuff stays.

DP. That's a way of not making a decision. You can see that, right? It's the excuse, not the reason -- or over time, they could have spent the energy to work out those logistics. They didn't.

DP. Obviously they didn’t, but I think it’s important to note that they’re trying to change and feel helpless to do so because the problem is too big. I think it oversimplifies the issue to say they could’ve fixed it but chose to do nothing.

All I'm saying is that the difficulty is in making the decision. People frame it in all kinds of ways and then go off expending energy on fixing those tangents, but that's all wasted energy. Really, it is. If you don't address the real core problem, then you are not addressing any of it in any kind of effective way.

My mother was a hoarder. I loved her before her death, and I still love her memory. I wasted so much time and energy chasing all the "reasons" while things got worse and worse, and when she was on chemotherapy, we had to physically remove her from all the goat-trails, mold, and dead things buried in the hoard. It was traumatic for all of us, and her most of all.

If they don't address their core problems, they aren't changing, and they aren't trying to change in anything like a remotely effective way. That doesn't mean it isn't hard, PP. I know it is.

It's hard. They need specialized therapy. That's hard to do, and hard to find. It's still the only thing that really helps.

I’m so sorry your family went through all that.

Thank you for extending the kindness. Sincerely.

Hoarding is on my list of things that if I develop superpowers, I would eradicate entirely. Your ability to deal with it is impaired so much by the pathology -- it's like needing to walk across the country to fix your broken legs. Such a cruel disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this lack of being able to make decisions explains hoarding in many cases.

For the people I know, it's an unhealthy association between material things and memories. Oh, that's the dress I wore when I met DH (20+ years ago); that's the blanket that Larlo got in the hospital; that's the hotel brochure and restaurant menu from our honeymoon, that's the note pad I had with me on my first day of my first job (30 years ago), etc. etc.

I have a hard time disposing of things like this because it seems like I'd be throwing out the memories as well.

It does for at least most. It's all a part of the same cycle. The article below summarizing some of the research, including functional MRIs assessing decision-making. The brain throws up various different rationalizations and explanations around that, but the problem is the same.

Researchers found abnormal activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula of the brain, known for decision-making and risk assessment. The people who hoard are unable to make decisions about discarding the items they own.
...
It is unclear whether hoarding is due to heredity or environment. But half of the people who hoard have a family member who hoards. And there is evidence that links compulsive hoarding to a region on chromosome 14—which has also been linked to disorders such as Alzheimer's and other cognitive impairments.
...
Research shows that the decision-making process of a person who hoards is seriously compromised. Neuroimaging studies have revealed common traits among people who hoard; this includes having severe emotional attachments to inanimate objects and extreme anxiety when making decisions, even simple ones.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hoarding

Well... maybe. But I make the decision to keep a few of these things that irrationally mean something to me because they have strong memories associated with the items. There is no waffling or paralyzation about what to do with this stuff. I decide to keep it, I find a place to store it and I review the items from time to time. Most I eventually toss as new items become more important.

I don't think that's what other people here are grappling with.

[Anonymous]

I think hoarding is also one of those things that people control better or worse based on external motivational forces. Often a partner successfully contains them to one room or area, or they keep it in hand for the sake of children. That’s why when people’s lives take a turn or there’s a big trauma it can suddenly spiral out of control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this lack of being able to make decisions explains hoarding in many cases.

For the people I know, it's an unhealthy association between material things and memories. Oh, that's the dress I wore when I met DH (20+ years ago); that's the blanket that Larlo got in the hospital; that's the hotel brochure and restaurant menu from our honeymoon, that's the note pad I had with me on my first day of my first job (30 years ago), etc. etc.

I have a hard time disposing of things like this because it seems like I'd be throwing out the memories as well.

It does for at least most. It's all a part of the same cycle. The article below summarizing some of the research, including functional MRIs assessing decision-making. The brain throws up various different rationalizations and explanations around that, but the problem is the same.

Researchers found abnormal activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula of the brain, known for decision-making and risk assessment. The people who hoard are unable to make decisions about discarding the items they own.
...
It is unclear whether hoarding is due to heredity or environment. But half of the people who hoard have a family member who hoards. And there is evidence that links compulsive hoarding to a region on chromosome 14—which has also been linked to disorders such as Alzheimer's and other cognitive impairments.
...
Research shows that the decision-making process of a person who hoards is seriously compromised. Neuroimaging studies have revealed common traits among people who hoard; this includes having severe emotional attachments to inanimate objects and extreme anxiety when making decisions, even simple ones.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hoarding

Well... maybe. But I make the decision to keep a few of these things that irrationally mean something to me because they have strong memories associated with the items. There is no waffling or paralyzation about what to do with this stuff. I decide to keep it, I find a place to store it and I review the items from time to time. Most I eventually toss as new items become more important.

I don't think that's what other people here are grappling with.

It can be both. I’m a child of a hoarder working hard not to be, and I have to discard my baby stuff in stages. The emotional attachment and the decision making overwhelm me so I basically put stuff in a box out of the way for months or years and then when I need more room in the box, I go through it and I do better with the old stuff because the emotions aren’t as strong.

[Anonymous]

My mom saved EVERYTHING. When they downsized, the basement was filled with boxes if everything from my childhood. Every birthday card, school projects, drawing, my baby teeth, etc etc. I wanted none of it. I've found my mom attaches a lot of sentiment to material things so everything gets saved. I'm not like that at all. I may save a few things here and there that we actually use (like a cute ornament DS made in Pre-k) but I can't ever picture a time when I'd want to look at art work DS made years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents and siblings are hoarders, and I am not. Parents had a lot of storage space so their actual living space was clear and you could walk around. But storage spaces are PACKED. At least 150 boxes of junk, stacks of old newspapers, etc.

How did I “escape” this outcome?

If you boil it down to essentials, serious hoarding isn't about having not enough stuff in childhood, or about the example you had, or anything like that. It's about being unable to make decisions. When decisions are overwhelming, you put them off, and off, and off. Watch the extreme hoarding shows and see how the holder can't make rational decisions like "everything in this room has to go, or I lose the house" -- they have to touch each item, deliberate, and mostly can't make the call to let go.

That's about things like OCD and anxiety. These mental health traits and disorders have some connection to heredity, but not every child gets them. You might not be great at paring down or housecleaning if you didn't have a good example, but it's not going to make you dysfunctional. You can learn. Your siblings probably are struggling with problems you can't see and have no empathy for, especially because those ways of being aren't yours.

NP. A different way to look at this is reflected in my household.
My DH gets one room and it is a hoarder's paradise. It creeps out but for the most part is contained to that room. He is anxious and his anxiety results in this desire to not make decisions.
I am also anxious and my anxiety propels me into action, like decluttering.
We're both working on our anxiety but our default is different.

Oof, I have the exact same situation: I'm an anxious doer, he's an anxious not-doer, he has a basement room that's upsetting but that's our compromise. Thanks for laying it out so clearly.

I have an anxious parent who is a hoarder. I don't think their dynamic is the same. I would describe the hoarder as an anxious doer, usually, and that's how they accumulated the stuff. They can decide to get rid of stuff, but there's a need for control about what happens to the stuff (sale for enough $, or to someone specific, or used in a particular way). It's time consuming or impossible to make those things happen, so the stuff stays.

DP. That's a way of not making a decision. You can see that, right? It's the excuse, not the reason -- or over time, they could have spent the energy to work out those logistics. They didn't.

I'm the PP and I disagree. My experience (with spouse and parent, both hoarders) is that they are genuinely fine getting rid of something if they have sold it for a lot of money, or if a loved one genuinely wants it. That is because those events validate the value of the item, and therefore valide their past choice to get/keep it.
It's the "unhealthy attachment to material things" element, more than the inability to make a decision.
In the case of at least one of "my" hoarders, it's tied to major self-esteem problems (e.g., painful to think she has liked/bought/kept trash, pleasant to think she has good taste and saved a valuable item) as well as a need to feel control (e.g., painful to think about something going in landfill, because she has bigger fears about the state of the environment).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this lack of being able to make decisions explains hoarding in many cases.

For the people I know, it's an unhealthy association between material things and memories. Oh, that's the dress I wore when I met DH (20+ years ago); that's the blanket that Larlo got in the hospital; that's the hotel brochure and restaurant menu from our honeymoon, that's the note pad I had with me on my first day of my first job (30 years ago), etc. etc.

I have a hard time disposing of things like this because it seems like I'd be throwing out the memories as well.

It does for at least most. It's all a part of the same cycle. The article below summarizing some of the research, including functional MRIs assessing decision-making. The brain throws up various different rationalizations and explanations around that, but the problem is the same.

Researchers found abnormal activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula of the brain, known for decision-making and risk assessment. The people who hoard are unable to make decisions about discarding the items they own.
...
It is unclear whether hoarding is due to heredity or environment. But half of the people who hoard have a family member who hoards. And there is evidence that links compulsive hoarding to a region on chromosome 14—which has also been linked to disorders such as Alzheimer's and other cognitive impairments.
...
Research shows that the decision-making process of a person who hoards is seriously compromised. Neuroimaging studies have revealed common traits among people who hoard; this includes having severe emotional attachments to inanimate objects and extreme anxiety when making decisions, even simple ones.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hoarding

Well... maybe. But I make the decision to keep a few of these things that irrationally mean something to me because they have strong memories associated with the items. There is no waffling or paralyzation about what to do with this stuff. I decide to keep it, I find a place to store it and I review the items from time to time. Most I eventually toss as new items become more important.

I don't think that's what other people here are grappling with.

It can be both. I’m a child of a hoarder working hard not to be, and I have to discard my baby stuff in stages. The emotional attachment and the decision making overwhelm me so I basically put stuff in a box out of the way for months or years and then when I need more room in the box, I go through it and I do better with the old stuff because the emotions aren’t as strong.

I’m a child of a hoarder who completely relates to this. I get rid of things in stages too.

I’ve also seen in my family that serious hoarding does seem to be a precursor to dementia and so I force myself to throw things out the way I force myself to lift weights. I don’t like it but I consider it an exercise I have to do for long-term health. Our house isn’t hoarded but I’ve had to constantly work to make sure it’s not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom saved EVERYTHING. When they downsized, the basement was filled with boxes if everything from my childhood. Every birthday card, school projects, drawing, my baby teeth, etc etc. I wanted none of it. I've found my mom attaches a lot of sentiment to material things so everything gets saved. I'm not like that at all. I may save a few things here and there that we actually use (like a cute ornament DS made in Pre-k) but I can't ever picture a time when I'd want to look at art work DS made years ago.

Really? My kids are older teens now and I actually really enjoy looking at the scrapbook I made of their childhood art. I don’t have boxes of it, though.

I also enjoy looking at my own childhood artwork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this lack of being able to make decisions explains hoarding in many cases.

For the people I know, it's an unhealthy association between material things and memories. Oh, that's the dress I wore when I met DH (20+ years ago); that's the blanket that Larlo got in the hospital; that's the hotel brochure and restaurant menu from our honeymoon, that's the note pad I had with me on my first day of my first job (30 years ago), etc. etc.

I have a hard time disposing of things like this because it seems like I'd be throwing out the memories as well.

It does for at least most. It's all a part of the same cycle. The article below summarizing some of the research, including functional MRIs assessing decision-making. The brain throws up various different rationalizations and explanations around that, but the problem is the same.

Researchers found abnormal activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula of the brain, known for decision-making and risk assessment. The people who hoard are unable to make decisions about discarding the items they own.
...
It is unclear whether hoarding is due to heredity or environment. But half of the people who hoard have a family member who hoards. And there is evidence that links compulsive hoarding to a region on chromosome 14—which has also been linked to disorders such as Alzheimer's and other cognitive impairments.
...
Research shows that the decision-making process of a person who hoards is seriously compromised. Neuroimaging studies have revealed common traits among people who hoard; this includes having severe emotional attachments to inanimate objects and extreme anxiety when making decisions, even simple ones.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/hoarding

Well... maybe. But I make the decision to keep a few of these things that irrationally mean something to me because they have strong memories associated with the items. There is no waffling or paralyzation about what to do with this stuff. I decide to keep it, I find a place to store it and I review the items from time to time. Most I eventually toss as new items become more important.

I don't think that's what other people here are grappling with.

It can be both. I’m a child of a hoarder working hard not to be, and I have to discard my baby stuff in stages. The emotional attachment and the decision making overwhelm me so I basically put stuff in a box out of the way for months or years and then when I need more room in the box, I go through it and I do better with the old stuff because the emotions aren’t as strong.

I’m a child of a hoarder who completely relates to this. I get rid of things in stages too.

I’ve also seen in my family that serious hoarding does seem to be a precursor to dementia and so I force myself to throw things out the way I force myself to lift weights. I don’t like it but I consider it an exercise I have to do for long-term health. Our house isn’t hoarded but I’ve had to constantly work to make sure it’s not.

Similar experience here. My mom is a hoarder and also has poor memory (and family history of dementia). I've wondered if the severe attachment to material things is a coping mechanism to hold onto memories / deal with fear of losing memories.

[Anonymous]

I've thought about this topic a lot. Agree with everyone that it can be OCD, problems making decisions and fear of losing control, sentimental feelings and not wanting to deal with memories so leaving it alone.

I'd add that some people overvalue their stuff. They see it as worth money, so if they let it go, they feel like they've lost money they had (sunk costs). Some people see these kinds of losses as much more important others do, so they have a harder time. The person I knew like this was also extremely cheap, in a bad way. She was holding on to everything so as not to lose or spend.

There are potentials in the stuff: hobbies and side-gigs that you were going to do, books to read, clothes to fit into again or wear in some possible new life, etc. Giving these up means giving up these possibilities (also freeing, but not for
the hoarder).

Feeling responsible for others, keeping and buying stuff for others, saving for future generations because they think there is continuity and want to help; also can be a form of control.

The hoarder I knew had a clean house but had two storage units filled with stuff. Eventually she couldn't pay for it anymore and lost it. She had been keeping this stuff for maybe 20 years.