People who "go for the jugular"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grey rock, every time. Don’t respond, just look at them slightly puzzled and walk away.
These are normally people that were at risk in childhood and learned attack is the best defense. Later they regret their approach but patterns are hard to break. So do them the favor and don’t escalate, they will feel shame enough later if they have any introspection at all and if they don’t you at least feel fine.

It’s this.

Sadly, I was/am this person and made strides to improve myself and understand WHY.

For me, I was dismissed often as a child, and it was my only defense to be heard! Even if I wasn’t really being heard. It was frustrating not being heard, I just wanted someone to acknowledge me. People would ignore/grey rock me, and that would only infuriate me more. More ignoring! I can’t be loud enough to be heard! Fine. I’ll be louder!

My advice is to HEAR these people, even if you don’t agree. “I hear you, Mary. I can see you’re passionate about this.” Or some variation of this.

Dp. You have self awareness, which op's neighbor clearly doesn't. It is good you are working on improving your communication techniques. If family members continue to dismiss you, it might not be due to your words and tone, but because they are dismissive of your feelings still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It's in a semi-professional setting (not my actual job but an organization I work with). It's in my neighborhood so I will likely have to see him/interact with him in the future, even if just in passing (which is one reason why his ruthless behavior is surprising to me -- he doesn't seem to care about completely burning a bridge with me even though we live near each other and will likely interact in the future).

His most recent outburst (via email) was very intense. FWIW, several other people messaged privately after he sent it to let me know they thought it crossed a line and they support me. Which I appreciate. But I still don't know how to respond, if at all. Is there strength in just ignoring it or does that make me look scared of him? To be fair, I'm definitely very wary of him now. The aggression in his message was not subtle.

Are you both on an HOA?

I find that with ppl like this, you don't respond every time. Let them fail for all to see. Yes there is strength in ignoring bad behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It's in a semi-professional setting (not my actual job but an organization I work with). It's in my neighborhood so I will likely have to see him/interact with him in the future, even if just in passing (which is one reason why his ruthless behavior is surprising to me -- he doesn't seem to care about completely burning a bridge with me even though we live near each other and will likely interact in the future).

His most recent outburst (via email) was very intense. FWIW, several other people messaged privately after he sent it to let me know they thought it crossed a line and they support me. Which I appreciate. But I still don't know how to respond, if at all. Is there strength in just ignoring it or does that make me look scared of him? To be fair, I'm definitely very wary of him now. The aggression in his message was not subtle.

Ha I wonder if we are on the same neighborhood listserv! Same thing happened to me. I just completely ignored it. Extremely unpleasant since I have to see him around. Getting involved in neighborhood politics was an eye-opening education. Some people are mentally unbalanced and you need to just move on and not respond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grey rock, every time. Don’t respond, just look at them slightly puzzled and walk away.
These are normally people that were at risk in childhood and learned attack is the best defense. Later they regret their approach but patterns are hard to break. So do them the favor and don’t escalate, they will feel shame enough later if they have any introspection at all and if they don’t you at least feel fine.

It’s this.

Sadly, I was/am this person and made strides to improve myself and understand WHY.

For me, I was dismissed often as a child, and it was my only defense to be heard! Even if I wasn’t really being heard. It was frustrating not being heard, I just wanted someone to acknowledge me. People would ignore/grey rock me, and that would only infuriate me more. More ignoring! I can’t be loud enough to be heard! Fine. I’ll be louder!

My advice is to HEAR these people, even if you don’t agree. “I hear you, Mary. I can see you’re passionate about this.” Or some variation of this.

If you’ve made efforts to understand this, it’s odd that you would advise people to not grey rock this kind of rampaging person. You know your behavior was bad, so why would the solution be for people to engage further and “hear” the person rather than disengage? I find this kind of attacking, especially from a man, alarming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grey rock, every time. Don’t respond, just look at them slightly puzzled and walk away.
These are normally people that were at risk in childhood and learned attack is the best defense. Later they regret their approach but patterns are hard to break. So do them the favor and don’t escalate, they will feel shame enough later if they have any introspection at all and if they don’t you at least feel fine.

It’s this.

Sadly, I was/am this person and made strides to improve myself and understand WHY.

For me, I was dismissed often as a child, and it was my only defense to be heard! Even if I wasn’t really being heard. It was frustrating not being heard, I just wanted someone to acknowledge me. People would ignore/grey rock me, and that would only infuriate me more. More ignoring! I can’t be loud enough to be heard! Fine. I’ll be louder!

My advice is to HEAR these people, even if you don’t agree. “I hear you, Mary. I can see you’re passionate about this.” Or some variation of this.

Dp. You have self awareness, which op's neighbor clearly doesn't. It is good you are working on improving your communication techniques. If family members continue to dismiss you, it might not be due to your words and tone, but because they are dismissive of your feelings still.

OP here and yes, this person has zero self-awareness. I can understand losing your temper or getting heated in a conversation, that happens to lots of people. But in my experience, usually people calm down and then make some effort to smooth things over, even if they don't apologize. I can deal with someone like this even if it's unpleasant because I know they'll have an outburst but if I just wait it out, they'll calm down and be civil.

This guy is not like that. He was given an opportunity to temper his words and reset, but the message he just sent was the opposite -- he is doubling down on previous comments he made that were merely passive aggressive or a little rude, but like I said, going for the jugular and saying stuff that now cannot be smoothed over or taken back. I actually have said things like what the PP mentioned (going out of my way to thank them for contributions or acknowledge their viewpoint, even if inside I didn't really feel grateful or agree with them) and it has no impact whatsoever. He is never going to reciprocate this or attempt to repair the line of communication.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I recently encountered this myself on a neighborhood social site. I attempted a mild joke, but this guy took it the wrong way and went from zero-to-100 hostile. I blocked him, done. Won't be dealing with him again and will not engage in face to face anything. Appreciate the heads-up he gave off on how he operates. What a stupid jerk was my takeaway from that exchange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grey rock, every time. Don’t respond, just look at them slightly puzzled and walk away.
These are normally people that were at risk in childhood and learned attack is the best defense. Later they regret their approach but patterns are hard to break. So do them the favor and don’t escalate, they will feel shame enough later if they have any introspection at all and if they don’t you at least feel fine.

It’s this.

Sadly, I was/am this person and made strides to improve myself and understand WHY.

For me, I was dismissed often as a child, and it was my only defense to be heard! Even if I wasn’t really being heard. It was frustrating not being heard, I just wanted someone to acknowledge me. People would ignore/grey rock me, and that would only infuriate me more. More ignoring! I can’t be loud enough to be heard! Fine. I’ll be louder!

My advice is to HEAR these people, even if you don’t agree. “I hear you, Mary. I can see you’re passionate about this.” Or some variation of this.

If you’ve made efforts to understand this, it’s odd that you would advise people to not grey rock this kind of rampaging person. You know your behavior was bad, so why would the solution be for people to engage further and “hear” the person rather than disengage? I find this kind of attacking, especially from a man, alarming.

I’m not saying it’s right, but as someone who has been there, I can tell you that grey rocking me was the exact opposite of what my fragile ego needed at that moment and only escalated me to the point of blind rage. I was already on the defensive expecting to not be “heard”; if people weren’t “hearing me” when I was speaking kindly, and they still didn’t when I got louder, maybe they will if I strike to kill.

[Anonymous]

Personally I would ignore the email, unless you need something from him.

[Anonymous]

I deal with this too often. The part that was the hardest for me was why are people doing this to me? I went to therapy about it. I'm successful, upbeat, petite woman who is attractive. I've ran into multiple women who get incredibly nasty with me. I got punched at a wedding!

Anyways, the best advice I got from therapy was to never argue back with someone who likes to argue. Argumentative people get energy from arguing, so you just can't feed that. (The advice might be different if you are a good debater, I'm not).

Things I've said that worked:
-Nasty coworker screaming at me over Zoom- "I think we need to take a step back and end this conversation because you've gotten out of control. I don't deserve to be screamed at." And then hang up.
-Nasty relative cursing me out "You have a lot of feelings about this, but I'm not interested in hearing more about this."
-If it's over email, I just don't respond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it's in a work setting, chances are his reputation is out there and ppl know this about him. You have to keep it professional and when necessary, correct his misstatement with facts without any emotions attached.

If it's a personal relationship, distance yourself.

Basically, don't rise to his level and don't take the bait.

Ok, the bolded is specifically what I'm struggling with. In his message, he severely mischaracterized several things I've done. For instance saying that I "yelled" at him in a conversation where I definitely didn't yell or even raise my voice (in fact I didn't even view the interaction in question as a conflict). He also called me several names and described my personality in an aggressively negative way that I don't think reflects even my worst qualities.

Do I correct the record on these points? Is it worthwhile? I do think he is coming off as unhinged to other people (there were several others on this email) but I also worry that if I don't say anything it looks like I am accepting his statements as true even though they are clearly not.

My inclination is to say nothing but I wonder if my silence is communicating something I don't want it to.

I would do nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I deal with this too often. The part that was the hardest for me was why are people doing this to me? I went to therapy about it. I'm successful, upbeat, petite woman who is attractive. I've ran into multiple women who get incredibly nasty with me. I got punched at a wedding!

Anyways, the best advice I got from therapy was to never argue back with someone who likes to argue. Argumentative people get energy from arguing, so you just can't feed that. (The advice might be different if you are a good debater, I'm not).

Things I've said that worked:
-Nasty coworker screaming at me over Zoom- "I think we need to take a step back and end this conversation because you've gotten out of control. I don't deserve to be screamed at." And then hang up.
-Nasty relative cursing me out "You have a lot of feelings about this, but I'm not interested in hearing more about this."
-If it's over email, I just don't respond.

OP here. These suggestions are good. I think I've concluded no response is the right thing here, but this helps me to think of how I might disengage in the future if I need to.

It's funny you mention debating because my husband actually said that he thinks the thing that triggered this guy is that I had previously sent the group a small explanation of my opinion on a matter that was up for debate, and I had been very reasoned and clear ("I'm in favor of X approach for three reasons" and then list the reasons in a clear way). He was on the other side of that debate and DH thinks he took this as a personal affront. But I didn't even mention him in that email, I was just stating my opinion as we'd been asked for feedback on something the group was proposing doing, and others weighed in as well. But I think he might have viewed it as shots fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It's in a semi-professional setting (not my actual job but an organization I work with). It's in my neighborhood so I will likely have to see him/interact with him in the future, even if just in passing (which is one reason why his ruthless behavior is surprising to me -- he doesn't seem to care about completely burning a bridge with me even though we live near each other and will likely interact in the future).

His most recent outburst (via email) was very intense. FWIW, several other people messaged privately after he sent it to let me know they thought it crossed a line and they support me. Which I appreciate. But I still don't know how to respond, if at all. Is there strength in just ignoring it or does that make me look scared of him? To be fair, I'm definitely very wary of him now. The aggression in his message was not subtle.

Is this a toxic HOA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It's in a semi-professional setting (not my actual job but an organization I work with). It's in my neighborhood so I will likely have to see him/interact with him in the future, even if just in passing (which is one reason why his ruthless behavior is surprising to me -- he doesn't seem to care about completely burning a bridge with me even though we live near each other and will likely interact in the future).

His most recent outburst (via email) was very intense. FWIW, several other people messaged privately after he sent it to let me know they thought it crossed a line and they support me. Which I appreciate. But I still don't know how to respond, if at all. Is there strength in just ignoring it or does that make me look scared of him? To be fair, I'm definitely very wary of him now. The aggression in his message was not subtle.

Is this a toxic HOA?

No, a neighborhood org, but probably similar dynamics.

[Anonymous]

It’s this.

Sadly, I was/am this person and made strides to improve myself and understand WHY.

For me, I was dismissed often as a child, and it was my only defense to be heard! Even if I wasn’t really being heard. It was frustrating not being heard, I just wanted someone to acknowledge me. People would ignore/grey rock me, and that would only infuriate me more. More ignoring! I can’t be loud enough to be heard! Fine. I’ll be louder!

My advice is to HEAR these people, even if you don’t agree. “I hear you, Mary. I can see you’re passionate about this.” Or some variation of this.


Dear poster,
can you share what you did to improve yourself?

a recent incident between my brother and his wife, makes me believe this is his problem. I want to help him address it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It's in a semi-professional setting (not my actual job but an organization I work with). It's in my neighborhood so I will likely have to see him/interact with him in the future, even if just in passing (which is one reason why his ruthless behavior is surprising to me -- he doesn't seem to care about completely burning a bridge with me even though we live near each other and will likely interact in the future).

His most recent outburst (via email) was very intense. FWIW, several other people messaged privately after he sent it to let me know they thought it crossed a line and they support me. Which I appreciate. But I still don't know how to respond, if at all. Is there strength in just ignoring it or does that make me look scared of him? To be fair, I'm definitely very wary of him now. The aggression in his message was not subtle.

I would assume this person is mentally ill, and/or on drugs (legal or otherwise). Some steroid drugs used for legitimate medical conditions make patients very hostile and aggressive.

It's unfortunate this person lives near you. You don't want to give him the impression he can just bully everybody in the neighborhood. I would send a reply, pushing back in a professional way, noting his aggressive form of communication, labeling it as inappropriate. CC to stakeholders. Privately reach out to said stakeholders and find out, diplomatically, how to sideline this guy as a group.

Not the same situation, but the PTA organization worked to politely sideline a mentally ill and aggressive colleague of mine who had threatened me by email. No one wanted to be confrontational, but they managed to persuade her to leave.