Why do people think Putin wants to restore the Soviet Union?

[Anonymous]

Obviously, Putin doesn't want to restore the Soviet Union. He wants to restore the Russian empire.

[Anonymous]

Interesting video I watch from Peter Zeihan.

Basic thesis is Russia’s population is collapsing and they need to control strategic land points to prevent future invasion.

[Anonymous]

Because he does.

[Anonymous]

In trying to make the case that Ukraine and Russia are historically “one people,” Putin (or his scribes) did not go back to the Soviet version of history; instead, they reached for the most reactionary tsarist one. That’s because the Soviets did recognize Ukrainians as a separate ethnic nation with their own language and the (theoretical) right to self-determination, which in practice meant they were granted a Ukrainian republic within the Soviet Union. Unlike the Soviets, the Russian tsars saw Ukrainians as part of the Russian nation, representing no more than its “Little Russian tribe,” and their language a mere regional dialect. They also believed that over the centuries the West had attempted time and again to undermine Russo-Ukrainian unity. Putin borrowed this point, adding NATO and the EU to the list of Western offenders.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/06/ukraine-russia-not-same-country-putin-ussr-00005461

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously, Putin doesn't want to restore the Soviet Union. He wants to restore the Russian empire.

Thanks for clarification Vlad - potatoes potahtoes - it is still wrong and illegal to invade other countries to restore the Russian Empire - also he has said many times he wants a new works order where China and Russia dominate - so his main objective is unbridled power unfettered by the constraints of democracy, rule of law, ethics or a free press …

[Anonymous]

Why do people think saying Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire = condoning the invasion of Ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think saying Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire = condoning the invasion of Ukraine?

I’ve noticed it, too. Anything beyond “Putin bad, Ukraine will win” is labeled as produced by “Vlad” or Russian trolls . Baffles the mind. I think there is a poster or two who does that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In trying to make the case that Ukraine and Russia are historically “one people,” Putin (or his scribes) did not go back to the Soviet version of history; instead, they reached for the most reactionary tsarist one. That’s because the Soviets did recognize Ukrainians as a separate ethnic nation with their own language and the (theoretical) right to self-determination, which in practice meant they were granted a Ukrainian republic within the Soviet Union. Unlike the Soviets, the Russian tsars saw Ukrainians as part of the Russian nation, representing no more than its “Little Russian tribe,” and their language a mere regional dialect. They also believed that over the centuries the West had attempted time and again to undermine Russo-Ukrainian unity. Putin borrowed this point, adding NATO and the EU to the list of Western offenders.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/06/ukraine-russia-not-same-country-putin-ussr-00005461

This message was brought to you by the Kremlin.

Even if Ukraine was that close to Russia culturally (and they seem to believe otherwise), it makes it even worse that Putin and his crony generals invaded them and committed hundreds of thousands of war crimes against their neighbors . It is akin to a large man claiming to passionately love a petite beauty but actually stalking, torturing and murdering her after she makes clear she does not love him or to be controlled by him. To add insult to injury, the large abusive man claims to have carried out the abuse and murder out of love.

Further, if Putin and his cronies were not planning on invading NATO countries then they had nothing to fear from the defense alliance. Now everyone knows they that NATO countries were right to be afraid of Russia’s unprovoked aggressions and to create an alliance to defend themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think saying Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire = condoning the invasion of Ukraine?

I’ve noticed it, too. Anything beyond “Putin bad, Ukraine will win” is labeled as produced by “Vlad” or Russian trolls . Baffles the mind. I think there is a poster or two who does that.

Because it is inaccurate and disingenuous.

He wants far more than that and is on the record as saying he wants a new world order with Russia and China at the lead.

He is far from a traditional conservative as portrayed but a radical war criminal and dictator who murders any viable opposition and cannot be trusted in negotiations as he lies over and over again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In trying to make the case that Ukraine and Russia are historically “one people,” Putin (or his scribes) did not go back to the Soviet version of history; instead, they reached for the most reactionary tsarist one. That’s because the Soviets did recognize Ukrainians as a separate ethnic nation with their own language and the (theoretical) right to self-determination, which in practice meant they were granted a Ukrainian republic within the Soviet Union. Unlike the Soviets, the Russian tsars saw Ukrainians as part of the Russian nation, representing no more than its “Little Russian tribe,” and their language a mere regional dialect. They also believed that over the centuries the West had attempted time and again to undermine Russo-Ukrainian unity. Putin borrowed this point, adding NATO and the EU to the list of Western offenders.

This message was brought to you by the Kremlin.

Even if Ukraine was that close to Russia culturally (and they seem to believe otherwise), it makes it even worse that Putin and his crony generals invaded them and committed hundreds of thousands of war crimes against their neighbors . It is akin to a large man claiming to passionately love a petite beauty but actually stalking, torturing and murdering her after she makes clear she does not love him or to be controlled by him. To add insult to injury, the large abusive man claims to have carried out the abuse and murder out of love.

Further, if Putin and his cronies were not planning on invading NATO countries then they had nothing to fear from the defense alliance. Now everyone knows they that NATO countries were right to be afraid of Russia’s unprovoked aggressions and to create an alliance to defend themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In trying to make the case that Ukraine and Russia are historically “one people,” Putin (or his scribes) did not go back to the Soviet version of history; instead, they reached for the most reactionary tsarist one. That’s because the Soviets did recognize Ukrainians as a separate ethnic nation with their own language and the (theoretical) right to self-determination, which in practice meant they were granted a Ukrainian republic within the Soviet Union. Unlike the Soviets, the Russian tsars saw Ukrainians as part of the Russian nation, representing no more than its “Little Russian tribe,” and their language a mere regional dialect. They also believed that over the centuries the West had attempted time and again to undermine Russo-Ukrainian unity. Putin borrowed this point, adding NATO and the EU to the list of Western offenders.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/06/ukraine-russia-not-same-country-putin-ussr-00005461

This message was brought to you by the Kremlin.

Even if Ukraine was that close to Russia culturally (and they seem to believe otherwise), it makes it even worse that Putin and his crony generals invaded them and committed hundreds of thousands of war crimes against their neighbors . It is akin to a large man claiming to passionately love a petite beauty but actually stalking, torturing and murdering her after she makes clear she does not love him or to be controlled by him. To add insult to injury, the large abusive man claims to have carried out the abuse and murder out of love.

Further, if Putin and his cronies were not planning on invading NATO countries then they had nothing to fear from the defense alliance. Now everyone knows they that NATO countries were right to be afraid of Russia’s unprovoked aggressions and to create an alliance to defend themselves.

This was in response to post above the politico link - which was spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think saying Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire = condoning the invasion of Ukraine?

I’ve noticed it, too. Anything beyond “Putin bad, Ukraine will win” is labeled as produced by “Vlad” or Russian trolls . Baffles the mind. I think there is a poster or two who does that.

Yes more than one of us can easily spot Russian propaganda talking points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think saying Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire = condoning the invasion of Ukraine?

Because it was suggested in a way that minimizes Putin’s outrageous and aggressive agenda while portraying him as a traditional harmless Conservative. He is a ruthless dictator who brokers no dissent and a war criminal who spreads a lot of disinformation to justify his many aggressions, annexations of other peoples’ land and undermining of Western democracies while promoting far right extremism around the free world. It benefits his own authoritarian rule to weaken Western democracies.

Democracy is messy but the alternative of clinical dictatorships is far far worse.

[Anonymous]

Because the thinking goes:

A. Putin is evil
B. The Soviet Union was the evil empire
C. Therefore, Putin wants to restore the Soviet Union

A is basically true, B is a Reagan slogan. C doesn't flow from A and B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think saying Putin wants to restore the Russian Empire = condoning the invasion of Ukraine?

Because it was suggested in a way that minimizes Putin’s outrageous and aggressive agenda while portraying him as a traditional harmless Conservative. He is a ruthless dictator who brokers no dissent and a war criminal who spreads a lot of disinformation to justify his many aggressions, annexations of other peoples’ land and undermining of Western democracies while promoting far right extremism around the free world. It benefits his own authoritarian rule to weaken Western democracies.

Democracy is messy but the alternative of clinical dictatorships is far far worse.

The only way you can have this train of thought is if you believe that the Russian Empire was benign and a "harmless traditional conservative" regime. Is that what you're trying to say? I'm the one who noted-- accurately-- that Putin is not trying to rebuild the USSR but rather a Russian Empire in which Russia is the undisputed hegemon-- and I don't believe this is harmless. Although I acknowledge that I made no moral statements, just factual ones. It just didn't occur to me that leftists would think that the Russian Empire was benevolent.