How to handle this difficult situation with a friend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fine, here is the letter that they signed:

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vSxEIf0j1H6v3R4549yxfetSBy1ioc6VHyJa3vKfvgyVFX9TAluk_1laTuSBKAyzqjF3hJT9EVw0P7a/pub

Why is DH not equally concerned about the students being attacked for supporting Palestinian human rights?

“It is worth noting that not all of us agree with every one of the claims made in the students’ statement, but we do agree that making such claims cannot and should not be considered anti-Semitic. Their merits are being debated by governmental and non-governmental agencies at the highest level, and constitute a terrain of completely legitimate political and legal debate.

We are appalled that trucks broadcasting students’ names and images are circling the campus, identifying them individually as “Columbia’s Leading Anti-Semites”, and that some students have had offers of employment withdrawn by employers that sought to punish them for signing the student statement, or for being merely affiliated with student groups associated with the statement. In the absence of university action, students and faculty have undertaken the burden of blocking the images and identifying information broadcast on the doxxing trucks. It is worth noting that most of the students targeted by this doxing campaign are Arab, Muslim, Palestinian, or South Asian.”

[Anonymous]

I don't think there is much up for discussion. She is a professor and feels she knows it all. I have a sibling in academia just like this. She is the lead authority on everything apparently. I would not ask her to explain, but I would distance. I would let the kids keep their friendship because they are innocent children, but I would not go out of my way to give favors like rides to birthday parties, etc. I would support the friendship between children in the easiest way possible where I don't feel resentful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She’s made her views known. Team DH. Just ghost and make an excuse to cancel for the joint vacation. No need to make it a big deal or confrontation, people ghost all the time.

+1
I'm not going to get into my thinking on this because I don't want to delve into the politics. But now that I've seen the letter, I would would find an excuse to politely cancel the vacation. I would NOT raise the letter with her; it will not end well. Just accept that those are her views (and I can guess why you are surprised) and be pleasant when you need to interact with her in the future regarding the kids. But that's it.

I'm sorry, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine, here is the letter that they signed:

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vSxEIf0j1H6v3R4549yxfetSBy1ioc6VHyJa3vKfvgyVFX9TAluk_1laTuSBKAyzqjF3hJT9EVw0P7a/pub

Why is DH not equally concerned about the students being attacked for supporting Palestinian human rights?

“It is worth noting that not all of us agree with every one of the claims made in the students’ statement, but we do agree that making such claims cannot and should not be considered anti-Semitic. Their merits are being debated by governmental and non-governmental agencies at the highest level, and constitute a terrain of completely legitimate political and legal debate.

We are appalled that trucks broadcasting students’ names and images are circling the campus, identifying them individually as “Columbia’s Leading Anti-Semites”, and that some students have had offers of employment withdrawn by employers that sought to punish them for signing the student statement, or for being merely affiliated with student groups associated with the statement. In the absence of university action, students and faculty have undertaken the burden of blocking the images and identifying information broadcast on the doxxing trucks. It is worth noting that most of the students targeted by this doxing campaign are Arab, Muslim, Palestinian, or South Asian.”

NP - So free speech is ok for some but not all and there should be no consequences for behavior? The student letter and the faculty letter both state that the actions of Hamas on October 7 were a legitimate military action. They were not and to say that is to condone terrorism and yes it is antisemitic.

Imagine if this was white students who said something similar about what happened during the BLM protests in 2020? Every one of those students would’ve been facing worse consequences than a “doxxing truck”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hear you, OP. Honestly, I would ask for an explanation from the friend. “Hey, I was surprised to see your name on a letter that containing views about X I frankly find upsetting. Do you really hold those views?”

One other question - how would you ask the question? Text? On the phone? Try to find a time in person? I don’t see her often as our kids are now older but we had socialized maybe once a month or every other month and she texts me a fair bit.

I would try to have the conversation my email to give her time to formulate a response that is not off the cuff. I’d word it then that “DH and I” have these concerns.

The letter is clearly highly anti-Semitic. It may say Palestine, but it is clearly justifying Hamas’ actions. Not the average Palestinian. I am married to an academic and am honestly shocked what is going on in that world right now. It’s deeply troubling.

[Anonymous]

Telling you right now engaging her will not bring you any satisfaction

[Anonymous]

When people show you who they are, believe them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Telling you right now engaging her will not bring you any satisfaction

I fully agree. Resist the urge, OP. It could get bad and would then interfere with the ability of your kids to be friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh good, another one of these troll posts that pose as a seemingly realistic personal/political conundrum but is actually designed to get people arguing about Israel, Gaza, and what counts as anti-semitism.

Seriously, do you just sit around posting 2-3 of these threads a day to see if they'll take off? How much time do you spend coming up with the scenarios? We've had:

- A friend who posted pro-Palestinian comments to her social media and then noted in a text that she was overwhelmed by the news
- A friend of DS who participated in a pro-Palestinian walk out
- A professor friend who signed a letter deemed unacceptable

Notice that the offense in question is NEVER support for Hamas, critical comments about Jews or even Israel. It's always just vague support for Palestinians, which is deemed by the OPs of these threads to be unacceptable.

Folks, please stop falling for these. It's a troll.

I’m not a troll. And I was deliberately vague and didn’t mention any side at all in my post so you’re just making a bunch of assumptions.

New poster here. Just got real. We know what side the alleged letter was on. You’re not fooling anyone.

She doesn’t need to “fool anyone.” She posted the letter and it is not vague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No advice but I’m in the same boat. My SO’s best friend keeps posting telling Jews to “stop centering your trauma” and calling the victims of the Nova music festival legitimate targets because they are “settlers”. Sharing disinformation saying Hamas didn’t kill babies. I never want to speak to this person again but my SO wants to remain friends. Ugh.

I call bullshit. If not, then you hang out with really ignorant and stupid people I have not heard or read a single person in any media anywhere on the planet suggest that the kids at that musical festival who were slaughtered were legitimate targets. No one at all.

[Anonymous]

I am in a somewhat similar situation where I am pulling back from a friend over our disagreement on the same issue (neither of us supports Hamas but we just don’t 100% align).
Let me tell you that it was just the last straw. If all was good and well with her I would not let this be something that tears us apart. So I think your DH had other issues with your friend, not just this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Telling you right now engaging her will not bring you any satisfaction

I fully agree. Resist the urge, OP. It could get bad and would then interfere with the ability of your kids to be friends.

But do you want your kid to be friends with someone whose parent holds these views?

[Anonymous]

Ghost.

[Anonymous]

I’ve read the letter and it sure sounds like free, protected and non anti-Semitic to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine, here is the letter that they signed:

https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vSxEIf0j1H6v3R4549yxfetSBy1ioc6VHyJa3vKfvgyVFX9TAluk_1laTuSBKAyzqjF3hJT9EVw0P7a/pub

Why is DH not equally concerned about the students being attacked for supporting Palestinian human rights?

“It is worth noting that not all of us agree with every one of the claims made in the students’ statement, but we do agree that making such claims cannot and should not be considered anti-Semitic. Their merits are being debated by governmental and non-governmental agencies at the highest level, and constitute a terrain of completely legitimate political and legal debate.

We are appalled that trucks broadcasting students’ names and images are circling the campus, identifying them individually as “Columbia’s Leading Anti-Semites”, and that some students have had offers of employment withdrawn by employers that sought to punish them for signing the student statement, or for being merely affiliated with student groups associated with the statement. In the absence of university action, students and faculty have undertaken the burden of blocking the images and identifying information broadcast on the doxxing trucks. It is worth noting that most of the students targeted by this doxing campaign are Arab, Muslim, Palestinian, or South Asian.”

NP - So free speech is ok for some but not all and there should be no consequences for behavior? The student letter and the faculty letter both state that the actions of Hamas on October 7 were a legitimate military action. They were not and to say that is to condone terrorism and yes it is antisemitic.

Imagine if this was white students who said something similar about what happened during the BLM protests in 2020? Every one of those students would’ve been facing worse consequences than a “doxxing truck”.

The faculty letter does not state that 10/7 was a "legitimate military action." Here's what it actually says:

"In our view, the student statement aims to recontextualize the events of October 7, 2023, pointing out that military operations and state violence did not begin that day, but rather it represented a military response by a people who had endured crushing and unrelenting state violence from an occupying power over many years. One could regard the events of October 7th as just one salvo in an ongoing war between an occupying state and the people it occupies, or as an occupied people exercising a right to resist violent and illegal occupation, something anticipated by international humanitarian law in the Second Geneva Protocol. In either case armed resistance by an occupied people must conform to the laws of war, which include a prohibition against the intentional targeting of civilians. The statement reflects and endorses this legal framework, including a condemnation of the killing of civilians."

The faculty letter does not endorse the views in the students statement, that 10/7 was a military response. Nor does it further editorialize that it was a legitimate military response. It's just describing what the student statement says. It then further contextualizes this by noting that even if you view the acts on 10/7 as a military action by an occupied people, that would make it an act of war, and any such act of war would have to conform to Geneva conventions, which do not permit the targeting or intentional killing of civilians.

Sure, it's written with a level of academic remove that intentionally obscures what the signatories actually think about the conflict. But the letter isn't actually about what they think of the conflict. It's about whether the students who wrote and signed the student statement should be targeted and doxxed as they have been, and whether their actions can be considered anti-semitic. The letter makes the argument that you cannot view the statement as de facto anti-semitic because the context of the conflict in Israel make the students' position on these events at least arguably true.

It doesn't endorse their statement. It says they should be allowed to make it, and attempt to contextualize their statement.

I understand why it would upset people. I'm not even saying OP shouldn't end her friendship with this professor over it if she feels she needs to. But the letter does not call 10/7 a legitimate military action or anything close to that.