GT children at independent schools

[Anonymous]

I think what was so offensive about the teacher's remark (based on what was reported) was that the parent did not in fact say, my little johnny is so gifted. She simply asked how they would handle a child who was already reading (and some kids just pick up reading on their own), and the teacher responded with a gratuitous swipe at pushy parents.

[Anonymous]

Unless you have an unusually gifted child, you really don't know what it's like, so please don't assume that teachers know more than parents about a child. My daughter also decoded our written language starting at age 2, and before kindergarten was already, by her own choice and by her own acceleration, reading Nancy Drew chapter books, a new one every day or so, writing in a journal, writing poetry, writing plays, inventing math games, asking us about infinity and negative numbers, and speaking in "complex" (multiple clause) sentences. She could remember the correct spelling of every word she'd ever read. She could memorize anything, and particularly enjoyed performing monologues. She invented amazing jokes and puns. And she was more emotionally mature than her age as well. She was able to translate for her younger brother, whose multiple disabilities include an inability to speak but do not affect his cognitive abvilities. It did not take the public school very long to figure out that she needed to skip to first grade, and then she was accepted into the gifted magnet 1st and 2nd grade program, but they would not accept her entry at 2nd grade and it made no sense for her to repeat first grade. She's now in a 4th grade highly gifted center and even though she is getting straight A's, she is challenged. And she is surrounded by peers who are fast learners and inventive and critical thinkers like herself. It is a very rich environment in many ways. And the teachers are truly awesome. Based on my experience, I think the public schools are best equipped to deal with highly gifted children. When we visited private schools before kindergarten to see how they would teach her, I did not hear a single thing that made me want to spend 20 to 25K per year. We have been very happy with the Montgomery County school system. My daughter went to Bradley Hills and is now at Chevy Chase.

[Anonymous]

Some "gifted" children are rejected or waitlisted at the independent schools because sometimes (not always) being gifted comes with some other (perhaps hidden, perhaps not) learning disability.

An option would be to suplement (what your public schools are doing) with Mensa, which has programs for gifted children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless you have an unusually gifted child, you really don't know what it's like, so please don't assume that teachers know more than parents about a child. My daughter also decoded our written language starting at age 2, and before kindergarten was already, by her own choice and by her own acceleration, reading Nancy Drew chapter books, a new one every day or so, writing in a journal, writing poetry, writing plays, inventing math games, asking us about infinity and negative numbers, and speaking in "complex" (multiple clause) sentences. She could remember the correct spelling of every word she'd ever read. She could memorize anything, and particularly enjoyed performing monologues. She invented amazing jokes and puns. And she was more emotionally mature than her age as well. She was able to translate for her younger brother, whose multiple disabilities include an inability to speak but do not affect his cognitive abvilities. It did not take the public school very long to figure out that she needed to skip to first grade, and then she was accepted into the gifted magnet 1st and 2nd grade program, but they would not accept her entry at 2nd grade and it made no sense for her to repeat first grade. She's now in a 4th grade highly gifted center and even though she is getting straight A's, she is challenged. And she is surrounded by peers who are fast learners and inventive and critical thinkers like herself. It is a very rich environment in many ways. And the teachers are truly awesome. Based on my experience, I think the public schools are best equipped to deal with highly gifted children. When we visited private schools before kindergarten to see how they would teach her, I did not hear a single thing that made me want to spend 20 to 25K per year. We have been very happy with the Montgomery County school system. My daughter went to Bradley Hills and is now at Chevy Chase.

Thanks for your informative post. I'm the 4/21 20:57 and 4/22 10:21 poster. I can see many similarities between your daughter and my child, and your experience in the public schools is making me feel a lot better about being waitlisted by all the private schools we applied to. I hope our experience in public schools will be as fulfilling as yours has been.

A previous poster commented about how all kids are gifted in some way, and that asking the schools whether they could challenge their kid is a turnoff. I don't disagree with you on either of those two points. But as the quoted post above shows, there are truly some highly gifted kids in this area who have particular educational needs. I can already see some occasions where my child starts to shut down at school and complain of boredom when not being sufficiently challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some "gifted" children are rejected or waitlisted at the independent schools because sometimes (not always) being gifted comes with some other (perhaps hidden, perhaps not) learning disability.

An option would be to suplement (what your public schools are doing) with Mensa, which has programs for gifted children.

I'm beginning to suspect that gifted students are being deliberately turned away at some independent schools because the schools truly don't know how to teach to them, regardless of whether they think the child is "twice exceptional" (being both gifted/talented and learning disabled). They don't want to take the chance of admitting someone they ultimately can't or don't want to handle. I have heard some anecdotes of students leaving some of the "prestigious" independent schools to attend a public GT/magnet school because they weren't being challenged.

[Anonymous]

Maybe for the very gifted as described by posters above, but probably not for the average run of the mill 99%, reading above grade level, math above grade level, etc. child. There are just too many in the latter category in DC. Schools have to put extra weight on other criteria.

[Anonymous]

It's funny how a 99th %ile, reading above grade level, math above grade level, etc. child can be considered "average run of the mill" around here. Funny, but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of the schools seem to differentiate before 4th grade anywhere other than reading. And, surprisingly for those of us who come from New York, where WPSCII scores matter hugely - the "top tier" DC schools don't select on WPSCII scores. Or rather, they select out children who score below a certain level. So all of these schools are getting a much broader range of IQs than there NYC top tier counterparts (who tend to take only 95%+ kids). Classrooms move more slowly and expectations, particularly in the early grades, seem to be lower - they teach to the middle, not the top.

I'm curious as to the basis for these statements. Can you please share that with us?

[Anonymous]

Not the NYC poster, but based on what you can read here, it certainly seems true that WPPSI plays a relatively unimportant role in admissions in DC. Many parents with children in the 99th percentile report being rejected/waitlisted by the "top" schools, while others with scores in the 80th-90th percentile report that their children have been accepted.

Not saying whether or not this is a good thing; just an empirical observation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the NYC poster, but based on what you can read here, it certainly seems true that WPPSI plays a relatively unimportant role in admissions in DC. Many parents with children in the 99th percentile report being rejected/waitlisted by the "top" schools, while others with scores in the 80th-90th percentile report that their children have been accepted.

Not saying whether or not this is a good thing; just an empirical observation.

I don't think that the WPPSI plays a relatively unimportant role in admissions in DC. Maybe there aren't the hard and fast 95th percentile cutoffs as in NYC. However, the WPPSI is definitely a factor (among many) in determining admissions. There is a broader range of IQs in DC admissions because above a certain percentile, any child (meeting whatever additional admission criteria) would likely be successful. A child scoring in the 80's can be as successful at Sidwell/Beauvoir/GDS as a child scoring in the 99th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP: Do you have a sense of which elementaries in Mont Co are best at supporting GT children? I thought the highly gifted centers didn't begin until fourth grade, so I'm wondering what parents do before then.

PP here. It's true that the highly gifted centers in MoCo don't start until 4th grade (you apply in 3rd.).

Rather than say which school I thought was best, I'd like to answer this by describing what I'm looking for in a school, whether public or private. I don't want to perpetuate the whole "this school is the best" frenzy that seems to be the case in private schools (although I don't mean to accuse you of this attitude). Also, I only looked at public schools that fit my financial and logistical abilities. I have to be able to afford to live or rent in the school district, even if it is the worst house in the district. And, I have to be able to juggle work, multiple kids, other family responsibilities, etc. What I decided is the best is really only the best that I can do for my family.

I want a school with strong differentiation in the classroom, i.e. at least two if not three w/i classroom instructional groupings for math and reading. I would prefer there to be within grade regrouping, i.e. all the kids in preK who read are in the same class or group, but this seems to be rare. I would like to see opportunities for cross-grade regrouping, i.e. a child in second grade who reads or does math at a higher level might be in a 3rd or 4th grade class either with other same age kids or older kids where also socially appropriate. I would like to see a standing instructional program in reading that is tailored to different reading levels (like William and Mary in MoCo) or established varied math pathways (for example, in MoCo, a third grader can take 3rd, 4th or 5th grade math). It goes without saying that all grouping should be flexible, i.e. a student should be able to move up from one skills group to another based on skills mastered.

What I don't want -- I don't want enrichment to be "ad hoc" because then it never seems to happen. I don't want GT enrichment to be once a week or done by a parent. I don't want my child reading to himself in class for 45 minutes because he/she finished her math worksheet early. Nor do I want him to have to finish the regular lesson and then a second lesson at his level. I don't want "gifted" work to consist simply of more worksheets or books that are easy. I don't want him to be the only child in a group or class that can read or do math two or more grades above level, because then he/she starts to hide his/her ability in order to fit in. I don't want teachers and administrators to characterize questions about more "challenging" work as really reflective of a secret personal desire of "pushy" "resume-building" "helicopter" parents.

At the first parent-teacher conference, I don't want the teacher to tell me that my child is getting 95%+ on all his assignments, so he is doing great. I want a teacher to recognize that as a warning sign that the material isn't appropriate. I want a teacher and administration who doesn't mix up different categories of giftedness, insisting that only the profoundly gifted, who started reading at 18 months by themselves or solved advanced physics in preschool, are really gifted. I want a school that recognizes that giftedness varies -- from profoundly to highly to moderately and from academic to emotional to physical, etc. -- without using the excuse that "every child is gifted" to administer a one-size fits all curriculum. Because, while every child IS gifted in some way, not every child is gifted in the same way, and a one size fits all curriculum that fits everyone does a disservice to everyone, in my experience.

I will look at test scores and take them seriously. I want my child in a school which has significant achievement in the advanced levels when compared to other schools. Our experience has been that in a school with lower levels of advanced test achievement, the class lesson is pitched much towards a lower skill level, leaving our child bored. I don't care so much about the poverty/FARMS rate (which I have heard many other parents take, incorrectly I think, as an inverse proxy for achievement) as long as there is significant advanced achievement in reading and math compared to other schools.

I also want what all other parents want for their kids no matter what skill level -- schools that teach reading and math as well as science and social studies and life/social skills, schools that have music and art and PE and computers and language and after school and before school programs.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm too tired to write.

[Anonymous]

Thank you. I can't say how helpful this is.

[Anonymous]

Okay, that didn't come out right. I meant, I can't say enough how helpful this is.

[Anonymous]

PP,

I found your description of what you are looking for to be very interesting and think you make some good points. I grew up "gifted" and skipped a grade of school so that I graduated at 16, etc. I would question, however, your emphasis on "differentiation" particularly when that is done in terms of formally regrouping kids into reading groups or math groups, etc. The social reality of this kind of grouping is I think very difficult both for the kids in the "advanced" group and of course for the kids in the "behind" group. This kind of tracking of little kids is just the kind of thing that used to happen and was I think correctly rejected by educators since I went to school so I am concerned that it is coming back in this sense of differentiation. Would you be in favor of dividing the kids into different classes based on skills if your DD or DS was going to spend the entire year in the class with the other non-gifted kids? I agree with some of the other ideas for challenging kids and I certainly do not want kids to be bored, but think that we can go too far in the other direction.

[Anonymous]

Out of curiosity, have any readers had any experience with Langley (little Langley, PK-8 private school in McLean)? They seem to have a huge focus on differentiation.