The admissions change we can maybe all agree on . . .

[Anonymous]

I think the thing we should all focus on agreeing about, is that the notion of elite schools is outdated. The number of schools that have outstanding professors and students is not as finite as people want to believe.

If you choose to believe there is only one pie worth eating, you will continue to battle people over its crumbs, while others enjoy a fine a meal elsewhere and live a great life. Your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:International students have grown to over 15 percent, sometimes well over 20 percent of the class at elite schools. Nearly all these students are full pay from wealthy families because only a handful of schools provide aid to international students.
Congress should pass a law that any school receiving federal research money to limit international students to no more than five percent of the class, similar to the restrictions some state schools put on out of state students. More spots for do oestic students of all races and ethnicities.

Not sure what you are calling elite but 1) your 15% number is inflated and 2) this international percentage will go way up because of the post- affirmative action landscape and the upcoming democratic cliff. Oxbridge has 40-50% international. The United States percentage is minuscule in comparison.

This is the top 10 international percentage of selective schools. No Ivies, and only 1 top SLAC. The only schools over 20% are not elite schools.

Rochester 25%
New York University 24%
Boston University 22%
Grinnell 19%
Emory 18%
U. of Chicago 16%
Georgetown 15%
Northeastern 15%
Swarthmore 15%
Claremont McKenna 15%

On another note, if more internationals are admitted to help pay for an increased proportion of low-income students (to offset the fact that most URMs at elite schools were not low income), I’m OK with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But according to pro-legacy advocates, those schools need the $$ to provide financial aid to needy students. International students pay a buttload of money to go to those univs.

(I think this is a BS argument, btw).

That IS a BS argument. I read somewhere that Harvard can afford to subsidize tuition for all their students by upto 95% just on the returns of their endowments alone. They don't need the money. Also, every International student not being admitted can very easily be replaced by a full-pay US student so there's no revenue loss. This is just the ivies and other top schools being pretentious A-holes. They should just open satellite campuses (if not already there) at these countries (India, China, Middle East) and have foreign kids go there with a semester abroad in the US.

Yeah, but that's like telling high HHI family they don't need money. Of course they NEED money. High endowment =/= not needing money.

When you (the 'private non-profit ' university lives off the tax-payer's handout (i.e. pay zero tax)), we get to tell you what to do. Of course, we need representatives in congress with ethics and a backbone to do this.

[Anonymous]

OP’s premise that elite colleges don’t give aid to international students is demonstrably incorrect. In fact the opposite is true. Many of the most elite are also the most generous to international students. Yet another completely full of shit know nothing poster. So frustrating.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/colleges-that-offer-the-most-financial-aid-to-international-students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's your problem with international students? I don't have any problem with whatever % schools want to accept. Education has no boundaries.

My tax dollar is going to the college, and international students take up the seats.

I think maybe 5-10% sounds reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But according to pro-legacy advocates, those schools need the $$ to provide financial aid to needy students. International students pay a buttload of money to go to those univs.

(I think this is a BS argument, btw).

Why BS? Where is the money going to come from?

Americans have plenty of money. They can fill the spots easily. That isn’t the issue.

[Anonymous]

Poor schools may need full-pay internationals, but not elite schools. Elite schools admit internationals to develop an alumni base in upcoming economies. The posters here want it because it is a prime gateway for Asians to form a beachhead in America. This is fact. 75% of American university international students are Asian. Most try to stay through a work visa.

[Anonymous]

OP agree on? No. It's such a tiny-brained DCUM suggestion in the first place. Almost Trumpian. Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP’s premise that elite colleges don’t give aid to international students is demonstrably incorrect. In fact the opposite is true. Many of the most elite are also the most generous to international students. Yet another completely full of shit know nothing poster. So frustrating.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/colleges-that-offer-the-most-financial-aid-to-international-students

Yes, but it is frustrating that you ignore the real issue: need blind admission for international students. They are not given aid when they are not admitted.

Some elite schools have need blind admission, and some don’t. This is not updated, but since you like US News and did provide a cite, here’s another one:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/what-does-need-blind-admission-mean-for-international-students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:International students have grown to over 15 percent, sometimes well over 20 percent of the class at elite schools. Nearly all these students are full pay from wealthy families because only a handful of schools provide aid to international students.
Congress should pass a law that any school receiving federal research money to limit international students to no more than five percent of the class, similar to the restrictions some state schools put on out of state students. More spots for do oestic students of all races and ethnicities.

No this is stupid. How do you think colleges get their money? Without these full pay folks your price would be way higher. This is like the people that get annoyed at first class on planes. Sure -- eliminate it and your prices will go up because first is often paying for coach. The federal government should stay out of education in this way. Racial issues are different -- that is Constitutional. The rest should be left alone.

You think there aren’t full pay domestic students who could replace them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But according to pro-legacy advocates, those schools need the $$ to provide financial aid to needy students. International students pay a buttload of money to go to those univs.

(I think this is a BS argument, btw).

That IS a BS argument. I read somewhere that Harvard can afford to subsidize tuition for all their students by upto 95% just on the returns of their endowments alone. They don't need the money. Also, every International student not being admitted can very easily be replaced by a full-pay US student so there's no revenue loss. This is just the ivies and other top schools being pretentious A-holes. They should just open satellite campuses (if not already there) at these countries (India, China, Middle East) and have foreign kids go there with a semester abroad in the US.

Yeah, but that's like telling high HHI family they don't need money. Of course they NEED money. High endowment =/= not needing money.

When you (the 'private non-profit ' university lives off the tax-payer's handout (i.e. pay zero tax)), we get to tell you what to do. Of course, we need representatives in congress with ethics and a backbone to do this.

No, an internet rando doesn’t get to tell a University what to do just because they pay taxes. Good lord, what idiots on here

[Anonymous]

Why would everyone agree with that? One of the benefits of college is being exposed to diverse viewpoints and backgrounds and international students have unique cultural, economic, political, and sociological perspectives that improve the experience and education for all students. Plus, international students sometimes stay in the US and make significant contributions to our country. There's no reason, other than xenophobia and counterproductive nationalistic protectionism, to put an artificial limit on their enrollment (especially when they are already full pay as you mentioned).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But according to pro-legacy advocates, those schools need the $$ to provide financial aid to needy students. International students pay a buttload of money to go to those univs.

(I think this is a BS argument, btw).

That IS a BS argument. I read somewhere that Harvard can afford to subsidize tuition for all their students by upto 95% just on the returns of their endowments alone. They don't need the money. Also, every International student not being admitted can very easily be replaced by a full-pay US student so there's no revenue loss. This is just the ivies and other top schools being pretentious A-holes. They should just open satellite campuses (if not already there) at these countries (India, China, Middle East) and have foreign kids go there with a semester abroad in the US.

Yeah, but that's like telling high HHI family they don't need money. Of course they NEED money. High endowment =/= not needing money.

When you (the 'private non-profit ' university lives off the tax-payer's handout (i.e. pay zero tax)), we get to tell you what to do. Of course, we need representatives in congress with ethics and a backbone to do this.

Do you get to tell other non-profits what to do? Nope. Not in this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP’s premise that elite colleges don’t give aid to international students is demonstrably incorrect. In fact the opposite is true. Many of the most elite are also the most generous to international students. Yet another completely full of shit know nothing poster. So frustrating.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/colleges-that-offer-the-most-financial-aid-to-international-students

Yes, but it is frustrating that you ignore the real issue: need blind admission for international students. They are not given aid when they are not admitted.

Some elite schools have need blind admission, and some don’t. This is not updated, but since you like US News and did provide a cite, here’s another one:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/what-does-need-blind-admission-mean-for-international-students

I’m sorry, but I do not understand the point of this post. My point was that the OP is wrong in saying that elite colleges are full of full pay international students because the vast majority don’t give financial aid to international students when that is clearly and demonstrably incorrect. What is the point of your post exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's your problem with international students? I don't have any problem with whatever % schools want to accept. Education has no boundaries.

I don’t want universities to turn away highly qualified domestic applicants in favor of rich international students when my tax dollars are supporting the universities.