Alice Deal Middle School

[Anonymous]

Per the previous post, it's not too late to sign up to volunteer for ADCA or LSAT positions; per this page:

https://www.alicedealmiddleschool.org/community-updates/join-the-adca-for-sy23-24-we-need-you-sg48r

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s overdue for a change in leadership.

PREACH!

I’m rather shocked by reading the Hardy thread. The behaviors described there are tame compared to Deal this year. Does Deal’s size keep parents from knowing all that is going on?

Deal has had a very weak LSAT for the past few years; asleep at the wheel. This is part of the problem. The school needs capable parents to run for LSAT. LSAT needs to do a better job of sharing information with the larger parent community and to assist school leadership, while also holding them accountable for approaches that don't work. Deal also faces very large impending budget cuts from DCPS central over the next few years and LSAT needs to organize a lobbying effort to prevent these cuts.

What in the world do you think LSAT does? That is like saying the PTO should be responsible for covering any want, wish, or desire for the school or they aren't doing their job...and shame on you for blaming parent VOLUNTEERS for the mess of DCPS budgeting.

Question...what would you suggest when LSAT do when we did meet with DCPS central and tried to rally a number of parents and schools to discuss these very cuts, but were met with silence from most and bobble heads from Central Office? Curious, because that is exactly what we did two years ago. Several folks testified, we sent letters, we presented all of this at PTA meetings. We were left with an outgoing CM who didn't care about school funding, an outgoing SBOE member that never advocated for more funding/services in the schools in the name of creating equity across the city, and that is on top of every other school asking for more funds in a shrinking budget. But your thought is that 4-6 parents are going up against DCPS, SBOE, and DC Council expressing that W3 schools have what they needs attitude? As volunteers?

If you weren't on LSAT, maybe reach out to one of us and let us know how we could best involve you next time. I hope you have the time to run (remember, you can even join as a community member if you want). I know I don't, but I do it anyway because no one ever steps up to run or volunteer. Put up or shut up.

What a smack down. Of course you're a parent so ppl will reconsider their originally outrageous claims. If you were a teacher (if we really want things to be like the Hardy thread) they would say you are unhinged and drunk right now and obviously those things failed bc you're incoherent. If we (as someone who knows nothing from the outside) did it, we'd do so much better. Macedonian troll. You're not even on their PTO are you?

[Anonymous]

Teacher here. Honestly, most public schools are a mess these days. There is no discipline except restorative justice. Pot smoking and vaping are practically legal and the police don’t care. Kids are addicted to cell phones.
There is a teacher + staff shortage.
Kids need boundaries and effective discipline but school administrators are not allowed to do much in the current socially permissive climate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s overdue for a change in leadership.

PREACH!

I’m rather shocked by reading the Hardy thread. The behaviors described there are tame compared to Deal this year. Does Deal’s size keep parents from knowing all that is going on?

Deal has had a very weak LSAT for the past few years; asleep at the wheel. This is part of the problem. The school needs capable parents to run for LSAT. LSAT needs to do a better job of sharing information with the larger parent community and to assist school leadership, while also holding them accountable for approaches that don't work. Deal also faces very large impending budget cuts from DCPS central over the next few years and LSAT needs to organize a lobbying effort to prevent these cuts.

What in the world do you think LSAT does? That is like saying the PTO should be responsible for covering any want, wish, or desire for the school or they aren't doing their job...and shame on you for blaming parent VOLUNTEERS for the mess of DCPS budgeting.

Question...what would you suggest when LSAT do when we did meet with DCPS central and tried to rally a number of parents and schools to discuss these very cuts, but were met with silence from most and bobble heads from Central Office? Curious, because that is exactly what we did two years ago. Several folks testified, we sent letters, we presented all of this at PTA meetings. We were left with an outgoing CM who didn't care about school funding, an outgoing SBOE member that never advocated for more funding/services in the schools in the name of creating equity across the city, and that is on top of every other school asking for more funds in a shrinking budget. But your thought is that 4-6 parents are going up against DCPS, SBOE, and DC Council expressing that W3 schools have what they needs attitude? As volunteers?

If you weren't on LSAT, maybe reach out to one of us and let us know how we could best involve you next time. I hope you have the time to run (remember, you can even join as a community member if you want). I know I don't, but I do it anyway because no one ever steps up to run or volunteer. Put up or shut up.

What information did you request from principal about out-of-control student behavior? What message did you (the parent representatives) deliver to the principal regarding the same? What was her response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Honestly, most public schools are a mess these days. There is no discipline except restorative justice. Pot smoking and vaping are practically legal and the police don’t care. Kids are addicted to cell phones.
There is a teacher + staff shortage.
Kids need boundaries and effective discipline but school administrators are not allowed to do much in the current socially permissive climate

OK, so the solution is give up? Private school?! Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Honestly, most public schools are a mess these days. There is no discipline except restorative justice. Pot smoking and vaping are practically legal and the police don’t care. Kids are addicted to cell phones.
There is a teacher + staff shortage.
Kids need boundaries and effective discipline but school administrators are not allowed to do much in the current socially permissive climate

OK, so the solution is give up? Private school?! Sheesh.

Nope, the option is to lobby downtown to allow principals to suspend again or to recreate the alternative school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s overdue for a change in leadership.

PREACH!

I’m rather shocked by reading the Hardy thread. The behaviors described there are tame compared to Deal this year. Does Deal’s size keep parents from knowing all that is going on?

Deal has had a very weak LSAT for the past few years; asleep at the wheel. This is part of the problem. The school needs capable parents to run for LSAT. LSAT needs to do a better job of sharing information with the larger parent community and to assist school leadership, while also holding them accountable for approaches that don't work. Deal also faces very large impending budget cuts from DCPS central over the next few years and LSAT needs to organize a lobbying effort to prevent these cuts.

What in the world do you think LSAT does? That is like saying the PTO should be responsible for covering any want, wish, or desire for the school or they aren't doing their job...and shame on you for blaming parent VOLUNTEERS for the mess of DCPS budgeting.

Question...what would you suggest when LSAT do when we did meet with DCPS central and tried to rally a number of parents and schools to discuss these very cuts, but were met with silence from most and bobble heads from Central Office? Curious, because that is exactly what we did two years ago. Several folks testified, we sent letters, we presented all of this at PTA meetings. We were left with an outgoing CM who didn't care about school funding, an outgoing SBOE member that never advocated for more funding/services in the schools in the name of creating equity across the city, and that is on top of every other school asking for more funds in a shrinking budget. But your thought is that 4-6 parents are going up against DCPS, SBOE, and DC Council expressing that W3 schools have what they needs attitude? As volunteers?

If you weren't on LSAT, maybe reach out to one of us and let us know how we could best involve you next time. I hope you have the time to run (remember, you can even join as a community member if you want). I know I don't, but I do it anyway because no one ever steps up to run or volunteer. Put up or shut up.

What information did you request from principal about out-of-control student behavior? What message did you (the parent representatives) deliver to the principal regarding the same? What was her response?

PP here: I have to say, your accusatory language and tone sounds like you just woke up and started paying attention and are mad that someone else didn't use their free time to solve an issue you are now just discovering. So, forgive my snarky responses...but wtf did you do?

1) Of course we asked about all of this, but not the way you just did because we desire to have a positive working relationship with the school.
2) We absolutely asked about behaviors, SEL supports, special education staffing, how to afford another AP, etc. These aren't new issues and the solutions aren't exactly clear either (as others have pointed out school discipline responses are limited due to DC laws).
3) The solutions to most of what you mentioned are more people (some with specific training). However, school budgets are finite and DO NOT cover all of the resources needed (not even all of the resources from the prior year due to inflation).
4) Budgets are about compromise- we discussed decisions the school has to make based on all of the stakeholder priorities.

Through all of this, not once did I walk away thinking the principal, teachers, or other members didn't want to do something that was in the best interest of kids. They didn't want a school with roaming students who disrupt classes. However, public schools have limited resources and the expectation is that they serve all students.

We don't need people to pile on Ms. Neal. Because let me tell you the pool of principal applicants isn't that deep and (as we have seen at Hardy) the grass is not always greener when it comes to new school leadership.

Our message after all of these meetings were to have families 1) enroll: because last minute enrollments hurt the school financially 2) advocate for more funding in ALL of our schools- the UPSFF allocations across the city still do not meet the recommended levels to serve all students (despite what right-wing troll articles say about DC's per pupil funding); and 3) support the school financially as much as you can- it helps and is necessary to close numerous gaps in city funding.

Of course, you can do more. I'm sure that there is a place for you to volunteer and make your kind of difference. You may learn that things are more complicated than they appear. That all 12-14 year olds are not compliant like your child and many need lots of support. You may also learn that DCPS has routinely under-funded and stripped resources from schools. Lastly, you may wake up to realize we all want the same thing and pointing fingers and asking "what did you do" to a set of volunteers may not be the best approach for having people step up in the future...

Again, put up or shut up...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s overdue for a change in leadership.

PREACH!

I’m rather shocked by reading the Hardy thread. The behaviors described there are tame compared to Deal this year. Does Deal’s size keep parents from knowing all that is going on?

Deal has had a very weak LSAT for the past few years; asleep at the wheel. This is part of the problem. The school needs capable parents to run for LSAT. LSAT needs to do a better job of sharing information with the larger parent community and to assist school leadership, while also holding them accountable for approaches that don't work. Deal also faces very large impending budget cuts from DCPS central over the next few years and LSAT needs to organize a lobbying effort to prevent these cuts.

What in the world do you think LSAT does? That is like saying the PTO should be responsible for covering any want, wish, or desire for the school or they aren't doing their job...and shame on you for blaming parent VOLUNTEERS for the mess of DCPS budgeting.

Question...what would you suggest when LSAT do when we did meet with DCPS central and tried to rally a number of parents and schools to discuss these very cuts, but were met with silence from most and bobble heads from Central Office? Curious, because that is exactly what we did two years ago. Several folks testified, we sent letters, we presented all of this at PTA meetings. We were left with an outgoing CM who didn't care about school funding, an outgoing SBOE member that never advocated for more funding/services in the schools in the name of creating equity across the city, and that is on top of every other school asking for more funds in a shrinking budget. But your thought is that 4-6 parents are going up against DCPS, SBOE, and DC Council expressing that W3 schools have what they needs attitude? As volunteers?

If you weren't on LSAT, maybe reach out to one of us and let us know how we could best involve you next time. I hope you have the time to run (remember, you can even join as a community member if you want). I know I don't, but I do it anyway because no one ever steps up to run or volunteer. Put up or shut up.

What information did you request from principal about out-of-control student behavior? What message did you (the parent representatives) deliver to the principal regarding the same? What was her response?

PP here: I have to say, your accusatory language and tone sounds like you just woke up and started paying attention and are mad that someone else didn't use their free time to solve an issue you are now just discovering. So, forgive my snarky responses...but wtf did you do?

1) Of course we asked about all of this, but not the way you just did because we desire to have a positive working relationship with the school.
2) We absolutely asked about behaviors, SEL supports, special education staffing, how to afford another AP, etc. These aren't new issues and the solutions aren't exactly clear either (as others have pointed out school discipline responses are limited due to DC laws).
3) The solutions to most of what you mentioned are more people (some with specific training). However, school budgets are finite and DO NOT cover all of the resources needed (not even all of the resources from the prior year due to inflation).
4) Budgets are about compromise- we discussed decisions the school has to make based on all of the stakeholder priorities.

Through all of this, not once did I walk away thinking the principal, teachers, or other members didn't want to do something that was in the best interest of kids. They didn't want a school with roaming students who disrupt classes. However, public schools have limited resources and the expectation is that they serve all students.

We don't need people to pile on Ms. Neal. Because let me tell you the pool of principal applicants isn't that deep and (as we have seen at Hardy) the grass is not always greener when it comes to new school leadership.

Our message after all of these meetings were to have families 1) enroll: because last minute enrollments hurt the school financially 2) advocate for more funding in ALL of our schools- the UPSFF allocations across the city still do not meet the recommended levels to serve all students (despite what right-wing troll articles say about DC's per pupil funding); and 3) support the school financially as much as you can- it helps and is necessary to close numerous gaps in city funding.

Of course, you can do more. I'm sure that there is a place for you to volunteer and make your kind of difference. You may learn that things are more complicated than they appear. That all 12-14 year olds are not compliant like your child and many need lots of support. You may also learn that DCPS has routinely under-funded and stripped resources from schools. Lastly, you may wake up to realize we all want the same thing and pointing fingers and asking "what did you do" to a set of volunteers may not be the best approach for having people step up in the future...

Again, put up or shut up...

Pin this post on the DC public schools forum for eternity please

[Anonymous]

Set up schools within schools for students who constantly violate school norms with higher adult-to-student ratios, trauma-based services, and restricted access to the rest of the school. Pay teachers who work in these classrooms higher salaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Set up schools within schools for students who constantly violate school norms with higher adult-to-student ratios, trauma-based services, and restricted access to the rest of the school. Pay teachers who work in these classrooms higher salaries.

While this is a very common sense solution, it would be against federal law. Putting students in more restrictive environments (like special classrooms) require a great deal of meetings, evaluations, diagnosis, more meetings with families/advocates, and then (maybe) you can get a student moved from general education classrooms. Schools are mandated to provide students with the least restrictive environment (mainstreamed with everyone else) or go through the process outlined in IDEA.

As with most things, there are very simple solutions...until you are put in the situation of having to lead/implement them and confronted by the realities of law, policy, and resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Set up schools within schools for students who constantly violate school norms with higher adult-to-student ratios, trauma-based services, and restricted access to the rest of the school. Pay teachers who work in these classrooms higher salaries.

While this is a very common sense solution, it would be against federal law. Putting students in more restrictive environments (like special classrooms) require a great deal of meetings, evaluations, diagnosis, more meetings with families/advocates, and then (maybe) you can get a student moved from general education classrooms. Schools are mandated to provide students with the least restrictive environment (mainstreamed with everyone else) or go through the process outlined in IDEA.

As with most things, there are very simple solutions...until you are put in the situation of having to lead/implement them and confronted by the realities of law, policy, and resources.

I agree with this. Current local and federal laws make it very difficult to remove children from a regular classroom. And usually the parent has to agree with the new placement as well

[Anonymous]

In addition, at Deal there are kids who skip every class every day. How do you keep them in their “school within a school?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In addition, at Deal there are kids who skip every class every day. How do you keep them in their “school within a school?”

Kelly Miller had an in-school suspension program run by a really tough Dean of Students. He escorted them around the building. They did not skip class. It takes effort, but it does remove these kids from the general education classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s overdue for a change in leadership.

PREACH!

I’m rather shocked by reading the Hardy thread. The behaviors described there are tame compared to Deal this year. Does Deal’s size keep parents from knowing all that is going on?

Deal has had a very weak LSAT for the past few years; asleep at the wheel. This is part of the problem. The school needs capable parents to run for LSAT. LSAT needs to do a better job of sharing information with the larger parent community and to assist school leadership, while also holding them accountable for approaches that don't work. Deal also faces very large impending budget cuts from DCPS central over the next few years and LSAT needs to organize a lobbying effort to prevent these cuts.

What in the world do you think LSAT does? That is like saying the PTO should be responsible for covering any want, wish, or desire for the school or they aren't doing their job...and shame on you for blaming parent VOLUNTEERS for the mess of DCPS budgeting.

Question...what would you suggest when LSAT do when we did meet with DCPS central and tried to rally a number of parents and schools to discuss these very cuts, but were met with silence from most and bobble heads from Central Office? Curious, because that is exactly what we did two years ago. Several folks testified, we sent letters, we presented all of this at PTA meetings. We were left with an outgoing CM who didn't care about school funding, an outgoing SBOE member that never advocated for more funding/services in the schools in the name of creating equity across the city, and that is on top of every other school asking for more funds in a shrinking budget. But your thought is that 4-6 parents are going up against DCPS, SBOE, and DC Council expressing that W3 schools have what they needs attitude? As volunteers?

If you weren't on LSAT, maybe reach out to one of us and let us know how we could best involve you next time. I hope you have the time to run (remember, you can even join as a community member if you want). I know I don't, but I do it anyway because no one ever steps up to run or volunteer. Put up or shut up.

What information did you request from principal about out-of-control student behavior? What message did you (the parent representatives) deliver to the principal regarding the same? What was her response?

PP here: I have to say, your accusatory language and tone sounds like you just woke up and started paying attention and are mad that someone else didn't use their free time to solve an issue you are now just discovering. So, forgive my snarky responses...but wtf did you do?

1) Of course we asked about all of this, but not the way you just did because we desire to have a positive working relationship with the school.
2) We absolutely asked about behaviors, SEL supports, special education staffing, how to afford another AP, etc. These aren't new issues and the solutions aren't exactly clear either (as others have pointed out school discipline responses are limited due to DC laws).
3) The solutions to most of what you mentioned are more people (some with specific training). However, school budgets are finite and DO NOT cover all of the resources needed (not even all of the resources from the prior year due to inflation).
4) Budgets are about compromise- we discussed decisions the school has to make based on all of the stakeholder priorities.

Through all of this, not once did I walk away thinking the principal, teachers, or other members didn't want to do something that was in the best interest of kids. They didn't want a school with roaming students who disrupt classes. However, public schools have limited resources and the expectation is that they serve all students.

We don't need people to pile on Ms. Neal. Because let me tell you the pool of principal applicants isn't that deep and (as we have seen at Hardy) the grass is not always greener when it comes to new school leadership.

Our message after all of these meetings were to have families 1) enroll: because last minute enrollments hurt the school financially 2) advocate for more funding in ALL of our schools- the UPSFF allocations across the city still do not meet the recommended levels to serve all students (despite what right-wing troll articles say about DC's per pupil funding); and 3) support the school financially as much as you can- it helps and is necessary to close numerous gaps in city funding.

Of course, you can do more. I'm sure that there is a place for you to volunteer and make your kind of difference. You may learn that things are more complicated than they appear. That all 12-14 year olds are not compliant like your child and many need lots of support. You may also learn that DCPS has routinely under-funded and stripped resources from schools. Lastly, you may wake up to realize we all want the same thing and pointing fingers and asking "what did you do" to a set of volunteers may not be the best approach for having people step up in the future...

Again, put up or shut up...

DP. Wow, so you’re happy to punch down and alienate a fellow parent asking reasonable questions, but so worried about your “positive working relationship” with DCPS and the principal that you soft-pedal your concerns about out of control behavior?

I think PP is asking exactly the right questions. Everyone is pretending there is nothing to be done about school disciple and that’s just not true. “Power concedes nothing without a demand,” a smart person once said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Set up schools within schools for students who constantly violate school norms with higher adult-to-student ratios, trauma-based services, and restricted access to the rest of the school. Pay teachers who work in these classrooms higher salaries.

THIS.