ES math- when do kids learn multiplication/division

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

I saw it with my child too. Arrays were just busy work and a nuisance. And who are the tests for?! The school admin. Any teacher knows if a kid knows their stuff. If they can solve a multiplication problem they don’t need to use arrays
I mean my kid did most of his work of course but it’s dumb and though I couldn’t openly agree with him, I do now.
Yes there are kids who need arrays and manipulatives and what not but i bet it’s not OP’s kid

[Anonymous]

As you can see, this is clear as mud OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

I saw it with my child too. Arrays were just busy work and a nuisance. And who are the tests for?! The school admin. Any teacher knows if a kid knows their stuff. If they can solve a multiplication problem they don’t need to use arrays
I mean my kid did most of his work of course but it’s dumb and though I couldn’t openly agree with him, I do now.
Yes there are kids who need arrays and manipulatives and what not but i bet it’s not OP’s kid

Arrays help them conceptualize while the multiplication works. MoCo parents are unreal. Complain their kids aren’t learning anything; complain they are learning too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

Yes totally. Arrays are the best. They make multiplication simple by illustrating the underlying concept clearly and concisely. The early poster is just misinformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

I saw it with my child too. Arrays were just busy work and a nuisance. And who are the tests for?! The school admin. Any teacher knows if a kid knows their stuff. If they can solve a multiplication problem they don’t need to use arrays
I mean my kid did most of his work of course but it’s dumb and though I couldn’t openly agree with him, I do now.
Yes there are kids who need arrays and manipulatives and what not but i bet it’s not OP’s kid

Nope. As a teacher, I need to know my student's are learning what I am teaching them in class. If the curriculum includes arrays, that student needs to learn arrays. The tests are for teachers in order to drive instruction. Just because your kid can multiply tell me they are paying attention or learning during my lessons if they don't know how to do what is asked of them. Additionally, math instruction is much more concept based now. Students are learning WHY math works, not just mindlessly memorizing it. Sorry, if your kid doesn't turn in a quiz or test that shows they know the material given to them in class, they aren't passing my class.

[Anonymous]

^^*students are learning* typing too fast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

I saw it with my child too. Arrays were just busy work and a nuisance. And who are the tests for?! The school admin. Any teacher knows if a kid knows their stuff. If they can solve a multiplication problem they don’t need to use arrays
I mean my kid did most of his work of course but it’s dumb and though I couldn’t openly agree with him, I do now.
Yes there are kids who need arrays and manipulatives and what not but i bet it’s not OP’s kid

Arrays help them conceptualize while the multiplication works. MoCo parents are unreal. Complain their kids aren’t learning anything; complain they are learning too much.

I learned without them as well as my kid. I have a friend who isn’t the sharpest knife who says it really helped her finally understand - the way they now teach math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

I saw it with my child too. Arrays were just busy work and a nuisance. And who are the tests for?! The school admin. Any teacher knows if a kid knows their stuff. If they can solve a multiplication problem they don’t need to use arrays
I mean my kid did most of his work of course but it’s dumb and though I couldn’t openly agree with him, I do now.
Yes there are kids who need arrays and manipulatives and what not but i bet it’s not OP’s kid

Nope. As a teacher, I need to know my student's are learning what I am teaching them in class. If the curriculum includes arrays, that student needs to learn arrays. The tests are for teachers in order to drive instruction. Just because your kid can multiply tell me they are paying attention or learning during my lessons if they don't know how to do what is asked of them. Additionally, math instruction is much more concept based now. Students are learning WHY math works, not just mindlessly memorizing it. Sorry, if your kid doesn't turn in a quiz or test that shows they know the material given to them in class, they aren't passing my class.

Are you an ES teacher? Then I don’t think “not passing” matters, sorry
And are you saying that if a child correctly solves, say, 14x3, even showing their work as 10x3+4x3, you will fail them on the test?

[Anonymous]

Clearly a bunch of non-math people if you think arrays are stupid and useless. Those kids who get into higher level math will definitely benefit from the early exposure to arrays.

[Anonymous]

The point of teaching 7 different methods is five the kid multiple perspectives to get the main idea. If you are giving children bad grades (ugh) because they only learned and used 4 methods to correctly solve the same main math problem, the person who deserves a bad grade and correction is you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly a bunch of non-math people if you think arrays are stupid and useless. Those kids who get into higher level math will definitely benefit from the early exposure to arrays.

My HS kid who HATED arrays in ES now says they understand why they were forced to do them. Apparently it really has tied into some of the stuff they're learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

Agree do not do this. Not only will students need to understand these concepts to pass grade level test, understanding the multiple different ways not only helps solve problems different ways but allows kids to THINK about problems differently and ensures concrete understanding of math. These are critical when you get to upper level math.

Everybody thinks their kid is super quick and understands it all until presented with word problems, mixed fractions, and oh Alg II. Then, expensive tutors come out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our 1st grader is more mathematically than ELA-inclined and is getting bored with 1st grade math. Based on the Eureka workbook homework, it seems to move very slow! He's been asking to learn multiplication- first of all, I was curious in what grade they start to learn this? Any suggestions for introducing it at home that wouldn't be too contrary with how they will learn at school? TIA.

Teach skip counting to 15s. Check classical conversations skip counting songs on YouTube

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes math moved very slowly until about 4th grade and then it picked up pace.
Arrays are stupid and more confusing for smart kids than actual multiplication. Many problems emphasizing how multiplication is repeated addition are confusing too.
Just teach your kid multiplication the old way and don’t make them complete the nonsense in their workbooks if they already know what they are doing.
Move quickly to standard algorithm for all 4 math operations and to fractions, including operations with them, transforming irregular to regular and fractions to decimals and back. Learn place value and why in standard algorithm it is vital to put place values under each other.
Kids don’t get enough time to understand it in 4th grade, so give yours a head start

Do not listen to this advice. Students need to understand arrays in order to pass the tests. And guess what? We've evolved as humans! Some students learn better using arrays...some learn better using repeated addition...and yes, some learn better using good old fashioned multiplication. The point is, not everyone learns the same. Sorry you're stuck in a mentality where you think what you learned is better...great. But don't advise other people when you don't have a clue how it works.

Agree do not do this. Not only will students need to understand these concepts to pass grade level test, understanding the multiple different ways not only helps solve problems different ways but allows kids to THINK about problems differently and ensures concrete understanding of math. These are critical when you get to upper level math.

Everybody thinks their kid is super quick and understands it all until presented with word problems, mixed fractions, and oh Alg II. Then, expensive tutors come out.

Everything has trade-offs. By spending so much time on multiple approaches and conceptual understanding of arithmetic, some kids don't get enough time on math facts and standard procedures. Also, by moving so slowly in early elementary, less time is available in upper elementary and middle school for more challenging concepts. Plenty of kids have difficulties down the road due to these latter issues as well.