If you could send your (African-American) son anywhere for school…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: For what it’s worth, it is important to me that DS attend a school where there is a ‘critical mass’ of AA and other minority students such that he has the option of choosing to befriend kids that look exactly like him and kids that look nothing like him – it’s actually a big reason why we live where we live. Sorry for the rambling post, but I’m hoping others out there can relate to these concerns and offer some tips on finding great schools (private, public or charter), helping schools to view your kid as an individual rather than through a lens of subconscious pre-conceived notions, or just learning to get over it all and let a kid be a kid. Any constructive tips appreciated.

If you're comfortable living in your neighborhood and the local school reflects the neighborhood, is there any reason you wouldn't focus there?

I can relate to your concerns. I'm AA and was subjected to low expectations myself at supposedly excellent public schools in Massachusetts. DH (also a minority) and I chose our neighborhood precisely because of it's diversity. Schools aren't perfect, but we found neighbors and friends invested in local elementary and willing to mentor us on how to supplement what DCPS lacks. We're confident that race-based expectations in schoolwon't be a problem even if the score gaps don't close.

Moving is of course a tricky strategy. Demand for Magnificent 7 type charter schools is skyrocketing (also known as "diverse" schools which is sometimes code for not 90% AA or 80% FARMS). How much of the elementary diversity and parental involvement will extend into upper grades is still an open question. And since these are charter schools, getting in is the luck of the lottery. It might be easier to get into GDS than EL Haynes these days.

OP here. Thanks so much for all of the helpful responses thus far. I'm definitely considering our neighborhood school (Oakland Terrace), but I'm concerned that it's ridiculously overcrowded - currently 300+ overenrolled and predicted to be 400+ in the next couple of years. I just don't want that for my kid. Plans have been released for a new local school (McKenney Hills) we're guessing we'd be zoned for, and we hope it will be complete by the time DS enters K or 1st grade so we can check it out and see if it would be a good fit. I've heard some great things about Oakland Terrace and some not so good things as well. We definitely haven't ruled out McKenney Hills, but are very open other options in case construction isn't complete, or we don't like the school.

In all honesty, I think my private school background and everything I've read about NCLB and teaching to the test don't have me sold on public education in its current state (particularly in 'Red Zone' schools). I want DS to love learning. I want him to be in an environment where critical thinking is encouraged. I am not a fan of worksheets or teaching to the test to make AYP. I plan to continue taking my son to the many museums and cultural activities D.C. has to offer, spend afternoons reading books and use any other tools at my disposal to enrich his understanding of the world. I would hate to think I'd also have to spend our precious free time together (DH and I both work FT) teaching him the basics that I expect him to learn in school, or taking him to a tutor to supplement.

If any current Oakland Terrace parents are out there, I'd love to hear from you. I'm really looking for reasons to love the school as much as I love the area, but haven't found them yet. I'd also love to hear more grom Grace Episcopal parents as it looks like a wonderful school that's close to my house. Do most of the kids there live in Montgomery County?

Please keep the suggestions coming.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Grace parent here. Most of the kids do come from Montgomery County. Some come from DC and some from Prince George's County. It's very diverse. The stats from the DOE are a couple of years old--but fairly reflective of the current enrollment. You will not see a pie chart like the one for Grace at many private schools. We are not AA, but the diversity and the attention given to acceptance and inclusion of everyone is something we really love about Grace.

http://nces.ed.gov/globallocator/sch_info_popup.asp?Type=Private&ID=00579878

You can look up all the diversity pie charts (all a few years old unfortunately) at the attached link.

http://nces.ed.gov/globallocator/

[Anonymous]

My AA colleague sends her AA children to GE, and she is very happy with the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grace parent here. Most of the kids do come from Montgomery County. Some come from DC and some from Prince George's County. It's very diverse. The stats from the DOE are a couple of years old--but fairly reflective of the current enrollment. You will not see a pie chart like the one for Grace at many private schools. We are not AA, but the diversity and the attention given to acceptance and inclusion of everyone is something we really love about Grace.

http://nces.ed.gov/globallocator/sch_info_popup.asp?Type=Private&ID=00579878

You can look up all the diversity pie charts (all a few years old unfortunately) at the attached link.

http://nces.ed.gov/globallocator/

OP again. Thanks so much, PP. This is really helpful, and I'm glad to hear you like the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:7:15 I'm assuming you're referring to Concord Hill bc there is diversity throughout Norwood's webpage including K teachers of color. They also list 30% diversity on the Norwood At A Glance page.

Yes, my mistake

I'm white, but Concord Hill is BLINDING!

[Anonymous]

OP, one thing about NCLB, if you do choose to stay with the public school system, is that test results are broken down by race/ethnicity AND in theory anyhow, your school is supposed to be looking at AA kids and trying to reduce the achievement gap which very likely is caused, in part, by low expectations.

If you look for example at Oakland Terrace's 5th grade Science test scores:

http://www.mdreportcard.org/statDisplay.aspx?PV=2:5:15:0769:3:N:6:1:3:1:1:1:1:1:3

You will see that only 47% of AA children in fifth grade pased the 5th grade science test compared with 93.2% of White kids. Not only that, but NO AA child scored "advanced" on the Science test, but 25% of the White kids scored advanced.

What is the school doig to improve the performance of AA kids on that science test? That is a question to ask the principal of Oakland Terrrace.

I'm a teacher, and I understand people's concern with NCLB and the fear that all this testing is leading to nothing but "teaching to the test" and boring worksheet and test drill. But there is also some good to come from all this testing and reporting of test results, in intricate detail. It shines a light on teaching practices. If kids are not being held to high standards, if they are being allowed to slide on through the system, we as parents need to know about it -- and the best way we can hold teachers and schools accountable is through tests such as the MSA. Granted I wish the tests were not so basic, but it is what it is. The MSA science assessment isn't that hard, but I think it IS a test that shoudl be "taught to" -- teachers shoudl teach the 5the grade science curriculum and kids should learn it. Then they will be able to pass the 5th grade science test!

[Anonymous]

You can also look at Oakland Terrace's 5th grade Math results -- lost of AA kids are passing -- but very few at the advanced level, compared with the White kids.

Again -- why not?

http://www.mdreportcard.org/statDisplay.aspx?PV=2:5:15:0769:3:N:6:1:2:1:1:1:1:1:3

Because of NCLB, the admintration at Oakland Terrace is aware that they need to improve the performance of ALL subgroups including AA kids in math -- and so at least they address this issue in their School Improvement Plan:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/schoolimprovementplans/SIP02769.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Are there schools out there that do a particularly good job of treating AA boys like any other students (i.e. not unjustly labeling them as having behavioral or learning difficulties, but challenging them so that they achieve their fullest potential as individuals)? We are currently in the Downcounty Consortium (MoCo), but have also considered moving elsewhere in the county or into NW D.C. as DS approaches elementary school. For what it’s worth, it is important to me that DS attend a school where there is a ‘critical mass’ of AA and other minority students such that he has the option of choosing to befriend kids that look exactly like him and kids that look nothing like him – it’s actually a big reason why we live where we live.

OP, I don't know if you would ever consider moving to Prince George;s County -- but we live there and have been very happy with the TAG magnet school program. The program starts in 2nd grade and has a high percentage of AA children. Glen Arden Woods Elementary in particular has a great TAG program. Unfortunately entry is by lottery as well as testing into the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can also look at Oakland Terrace's 5th grade Math results -- lost of AA kids are passing -- but very few at the advanced level, compared with the White kids.

Again -- why not?

http://www.mdreportcard.org/statDisplay.aspx?PV=2:5:15:0769:3:N:6:1:2:1:1:1:1:1:3

Just for fun compare the performance of AA kids at Glen Arden Woods in Prince George's County with AA kids at Oakland Terrace on 5th grade math -- twice as many score advanced.

http://www.mdreportcard.org/statDisplay.aspx?PV=2:5:16:2010:3:N:6:1:2:1:1:1:1:1:3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can also look at Oakland Terrace's 5th grade Math results -- lost of AA kids are passing -- but very few at the advanced level, compared with the White kids.

Again -- why not?

http://www.mdreportcard.org/statDisplay.aspx?PV=2:5:15:0769:3:N:6:1:2:1:1:1:1:1:3

Because of NCLB, the admintration at Oakland Terrace is aware that they need to improve the performance of ALL subgroups including AA kids in math -- and so at least they address this issue in their School Improvement Plan:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/schoolimprovementplans/SIP02769.pdf

Thanks so much to the poster who provided links to the MD Report Cards. I had been relying on the 'At A Glance' sheets up to this point, but this presents a far more useful picture of individual schools. I'm stunned by some of the statistics presented, particularly the stark contrast among ethnic groups testing in the 'advanced' category. I completely agree with you that NCLB's ability to shed light on the inequities in public schools is a great benefit of the testing. If access to those statistics helps motivate a school to serve all students better then it's even more useful. What disturbs me is that the 'At A Glance' worksheet could lead one to believe that a school like OT is doing great because so many AA and Latino students are making AYP and the overall achievement gap appears to be small. I am guessing the school has met the goals presented under NCLB (at least with respect to AAs) because the overall achievement gap is seemingly small. In an area with so many intelligent and involved parents, I find it hard to believe that more AAs aren't capable of testing into the advanced categories, particularly as compared to their white counterparts (and the P.G. County school PP references is clearly a testament to this). Though in fairness to OT, it does look like the numbers are a bit better in lower grades for reading and math. I'm wondering whether there are differences in the actual instruction taking place in the classroom, lower expectations for AA and Latino students (i.e. lowest common denominator teaching to make sure subgroups 'pass') or if white parents are doing more outside of the classroom to boost performance (perhaps tutoring or other supplemental work at home)). I'm normally not one to obsess over statistics and test results of this sort, but it's pretty hard to dismiss some of these results as statistical anomolies.

The School Improvement Plan is also very interesting, though it doesn't really give much insight into specific measures that the school is taking to address the performance gap (probably doesn't help that I'm not in education). These are all interesting questions for the principal there, though I guess it's a bit futile to pursue them at this point when DS is still a few years off from kindergarten. Definitely something I'll ask of my neighbors with kids at the school though.

20:33 - Glen Arden Woods sounds like it's a great school. I considered moving to PG County because I grew up there, but I also have not so fond memories of long commutes with my parents to my DC private and can't bear the thought of a similiar commute to work (or of being that far from my kid's school). I don't want to helicopter parent, but I do want to be close enough to stay involved in the school. I didn't know there were magnets at the elementary level though, so it definitely sounds like it's worth taking a look.

Again, thanks so much for the responses so far. I really feel like I'm getting a handle on things, and I am happy to see there are helpful and considerate parents reading DCUM.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who said "look at Concord Hills." Poor wording; I meant look at Concord Hills as an example of a school that clearly doesn't value diversity, since it has none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thanks so much to the poster who provided links to the MD Report Cards. I had been relying on the 'At A Glance' sheets up to this point, but this presents a far more useful picture of individual schools. I'm stunned by some of the statistics presented, particularly the stark contrast among ethnic groups testing in the 'advanced' category.

Not the OP but this posting had me looking at the detailed categories and taking notes. I think on some level I knew there was an achievement gap - you hear about it all the time. But all the press is talking about how MCPS is doing so much to reduce the achievement gap. Then I looked at the overall MCPS numbers for the subgroups scoring advanced on the tests - I saw a HUGE difference. Like someone else asked, is this a case of not doing extras with the children like outside tutoring etc. when they aren't behind in their work. Or is it teacher expectations at play in working with subgroups that are already proficient and giving the challenging work to score in the advanced category?

All the excuses that could be tossed out about poverty level, parent education, parent involvement, ESOL etc. - I wonder how among middle to middle upper class African Americans with college degrees and grad degrees from top schools, involved in their children's school life do you still see the achievement gap in MCPS? On top of that, when I watched the movie "The Lottery" - a documentary following 4 families as they applied for the Harlem Success Academy charter school lottery - you see kids with various disadvantages reading in Kindergarten and a school with some of the highest test scores in the state. So anyway, I do wonder how it will go for my two Afr. American girls when they start MCPS. I've heard lots of things about Grace Episcopal but supposedly my local elementary school is supposed to be great so it would be an uphill battle to get DH to agree on paying for private school X two kids unless we knew for a fact there was an issue with our local school. So I think we plan to try it and see how it goes - but maybe still look around so we know what else is out there.

[Anonymous]

In terms of the private vs. public and can public foster a love of learning w/NCLB? ...

I, too, am a product of a lifetime of private schools. DH is a product of public. My instinct is much like yours. I worried that public would not and could not foster a love of learning.

I've seen some good and some bad at our downcounty school. I've seen AA children and Latino children who are in my son's high level reading and math groups and get challenged. I've also seen a couple of really disruptive kids and kids who are well below where MCPS wants kids to reach each year.

Though I often question my decision and have my doubts about the school itself, my son actually LOVES school. He doesn't like it to end in the spring and he can't wait for it to start up again in the fall. He loves learning, period.

That's really just a long-winded way of saying that it can happen.

In terms of downcounty, Takoma Park does have an application-only 1st and 2nd grade program. It's difficult to get in, but the Takoma Park schools are both diverse and really good.

[Anonymous]

I have an AA son. If I could send him anywhere for school, I would probably choose private. I hear good things about Grace Episcopal. I'd also probably look at Washington International School and other places. However, DH & I have chosen the public school route for now because of financial considerations. We are in Downcounty MC and didn't feel great about our neighborhood school. Our son got into an Immersion program, and we are pleased for the time being. From what I've observed and what others tell me, it's important to be an active and vigilant parent. One has to make sure his/her son is being challenged and viewed as smart and capable child. Even if things are going well, be prepared for challenges. So far, our challenges have been minor, but I think the challenges for AA boys increase as they get older. A lot of achievement gap data shows how the gap becomes wider as children get older. In a private school that’s committed to diversity and other important values, there can certainly be challenges, but I think the teachers and administrators potentially hold more positive assumptions about a child's abilities and interest in learning. I think smaller private school class sizes also give teachers (and administrators) opportunities to get to know the students and their needs really well. To OP--I'd always been impressed with things I'd read and heard about Oakland Terrace. There is a gap, but it's smaller there than the gap at a lot of other MCPS schools. Have you had a chance to visit? Maybe this should be another thread, but I’d love to hear what parents of AA boys think about middle school options. I’m years away from that, but it helps with future planning.

[Anonymous]

GDS without a doubt