Importance of classmates being at grade levels for reading/math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it matters for elementary but it will definitely matter for middle school and high school.

I think it would depend on your kid. My DD is above grade and she will get bored if she was not in a classroom with other above grade kids.

[Anonymous]

It matters a lot especially in upper elementary. The teachers will be under a lot of pressure to bring up the bottom of the class. There is no pressure to challenger advanced students. My child was kind of in the middle of the class and really struggled. She was not behind enough to require all the extra intervention and attention but not smart enough to basically teach herself. When we talked to her teachers about her struggles their response was "well she's still doing better than half the class." We ultimately had to get a tutor and left for private. Within 2 weeks of starting private her teachers had flagged her for being behind and were providing her extra support to catch her up to the rest of the class.

[Anonymous]

We were in the same place ten or so years ago. It's important to realize that there is no perfect solution, that there are various pros/cons. You decide what's important to your family and what might work better for your particular child (this is harder when you have multiple children with different needs).

We thought that for us, staying in Capitol Hill would be better. Yes, for SURE the kids did not receive as good an education. But they were in a nurturing environment that, despite some hiccups, allowed them to have a happy childhood. The local friends on the block, the bike rides to school, then being able to walk to school on their own--those were important to me.

I was not interested in making my kids study for AAP tests (and yes, you are not supposed to study, but I know for a fact people do). I wanted my kids to grow up in a more urban environment (I'm not talking about urban as code for diversity, I'm talking about being able to get around the city on your own). I think some aspects of diversity are overrated, and your kids might not necessarily become friends with kids of other SES backgrounds (which I think is the bigger gap than racial differences, from what I've seen). But still, getting along with people different from them in some way is an important skill. (But, again, I think at this point the suburbs may be more diverse in the true sense of that word.)

I feel like Capitol Hill allowed us to have that small town experience (SOTH for kiddo soccer, the kid musical events around the neighborhood) surrounded by people who similarly wanted to stay. I am sure someone will come and tell me they live in a suburb that has all of that--and maybe we didn't look hard enough. But so far I have no regrets.

For sure, middle school years are challenging. But so far we've made it work, and I have not regretted it. (But, you know, maybe I'll regret it in high school. Who knows.)

I think it's important to decide what's best for your family and then not worry about FOMO. Just remember that there is no perfect school out there. My expensive private high school had some terrible math teachers.

If you have a very bright kid, they will read a lot, take music lessons, participate in sports. They will sometimes be bored in school, but it won't take away from their brightness.

If you have a kid who is slow to mature, they will not be shamed and will be allowed to grow at their own pace. Sometimes you'll worry that they are being ignored, and you may need to step in yourself or with a tutor.

If you have a kid who is exactly on grade, they'll be happy and thrive.

If you have a kid with serious behavioral challenges, that's the toughest situation of all, but I'm not sure if moving to suburbs would really help.

[Anonymous]

One little nit -- at no public school, even in the richest suburb, will 95% pass standardized tests. Eg., Bethesda Elementary: The percentage of students achieving proficiency in math is 48% (which is higher than the Maryland state average of 20%) for the 2020-21 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in reading/language arts is 52% (which is higher than the Maryland state average of 36%) for the 2020-21 school year.

I agree with another poster that it will depend on your kid, how it affects them. If your kid does not learn to read easily, the Wilson method DCPS uses is good, better than what Montgomery County & many charters do, but there won't be the sense of urgency necessarily b/c so many kids will be slow to learn to read.

For a bright kid -- well, I would want the option of formal talented & gifted, since I was a kid who was bored in elementary school/above grade level in reading. But there is a lot of value to going to a socioeconomically diverse & racially diverse school -- particularly if your kid makes friendships across those lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it matters for elementary but it will definitely matter for middle school and high school.

I think it would depend on your kid. My DD is above grade and she will get bored if she was not in a classroom with other above grade kids.

Boredom never hurt a kid. And if OP is on the Hill, all of the elementaries have a strong cohort of bright kids. And there is a lot of work in elementary that isn’t about memorizing facts that allows kids to perform at different levels. A lot of group projects as well. Like our 5th grade has a debate unit, a persuasive essay unit, lots of stuff that gives kids all the room they need. The only kid I know who truly needs more advancement is uniquely gifted and disengaged, not just “above grade level.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One little nit -- at no public school, even in the richest suburb, will 95% pass standardized tests. Eg., Bethesda Elementary: The percentage of students achieving proficiency in math is 48% (which is higher than the Maryland state average of 20%) for the 2020-21 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in reading/language arts is 52% (which is higher than the Maryland state average of 36%) for the 2020-21 school year.

I agree with another poster that it will depend on your kid, how it affects them. If your kid does not learn to read easily, the Wilson method DCPS uses is good, better than what Montgomery County & many charters do, but there won't be the sense of urgency necessarily b/c so many kids will be slow to learn to read.

For a bright kid -- well, I would want the option of formal talented & gifted, since I was a kid who was bored in elementary school/above grade level in reading. But there is a lot of value to going to a socioeconomically diverse & racially diverse school -- particularly if your kid makes friendships across those lines.

Normal bright kids don’t need a G&T program in many Hill elementaries. I was in G&T as a kid - I actually think my kid’s peers on the Hill are on average more “bright” than where I came from. The Hill is highly educated. My kid’s classmates parents are prize wining journalists, actual rocket scientists, drafted major legislation…

[Anonymous]

I believe what happens at home is what makes a huge difference, which means in schools where almost everyone is on grade level, instruction itself isn’t “better”. Those kids would do well no matter where they are. I also know that most GT programs aren’t actually offering the type of differentiation needed - they simply teach math one year ahead, which honestly isn’t enough for cognitively advanced students (this is also why a lot of profoundly gifted kids are homeschooled). All this to say, I don’t think it matter where your particular child goes to school as long as it a safe environment.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for starting this thread. It’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about so appreciate all the perspectives.

[Anonymous]

Ludlow does differentiation pretty well IME. Is it perfect? Of course not. Do they value meeting kids where they are and make an effort? Absolutely.

K-2 have lots of small group-based learning because there is such a range, especially in reading where some kids are learning letters in K & others are reading chapter books. Every K class has an aide, so 2 small groups have instructors and 2 work independently as they cycle through 4 ELA or math stations. The most advanced ELA group in my kid's class did book reports as a take home project; the least advanced is down to only a handful of kids (kids can progress up during the course of the year) and is working on letter recognition and sounds. All kids do a 15 minute daily phonics lesson together to reinformce the SoR-based approach. Math is similar with the top group doing lots of math puzzles & games to practice addition and subtraction fluency and lateral thinking. Bottom group is working on breaking 5 apart and putting it back together in multiple ways and one-to-one counting fluency.

By 2nd, the ELA differentiation looks like small groups reading and discussing different levels of books. The top group feels like a book club with kids predicting where the plot will go and discussing why the author made certain choices. In the second to bottom group, they are mostly focused on reading easy books aloud for fluency and harder books for comprehension (like they have discussion questions afterwards which are basically summarize the plot, name the characters, etc). The lowest groups gets multiple days a week with the teacher and is still learning to read. For math, by 2nd some of the differentiation is definitely screen based (iReady) for those above or behind. Every kid does 1 45 minute computer session a week; those ahead or behind do 2. There are group lessons every day, but

[Anonymous]

Sorry, hit send too soon ^^.

The whole class lessons are a short 15 minute phonics lesson (just like K, but far more obviously) and a 30 minute collaborative math class lesson with each kid having their own workbook. Kids who already know the material start on the practice and challenge problems immediately.

By 3-5, there is also free tutoring afterschool for those behind grade level and an enrichment program for those ahead.

IME my bright kids love school and do not complain about being bored. They love their teachers & friends and all of the great enrichment activities and have consistently stayed ahead of grade level in math and ELA. Might they be more ahead in a pressure cooker AAP environment in the burbs? Sure. But I don't worry that they aren't learning enough and this balance works well for our family.

[Anonymous]

It matters, but my opinion, based on having kids in several different Hill elementaries, is that what matters most is behavioral issues. It's difficult to teach in a class where there are varying achievement levels, but it's well near impossible to teach in a class where kids are persistently misbehaving, which is related to school culture. (See e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/2003/04/06/passfail/12f415f3-db0a-4678-952a-88e375992ba3/)

If kids are generally well behaved and there is a cohort (say 1/4-1/3 of the class) of high-achieving students, things should be fine even if some kids struggle.

[Anonymous]

The way you've framed your question suggests you already have an opinion.

Your child won't be eligible for PreK3 for a couple of years. There's no guarantee they will be able to get into L-T that year, but probably will get in somewhere nearby. I think public preK3, at least for MC and UMC families is non-existent in Maryland and Virginia. A lot of DC couples who have always intended to move to suburbia stay in DC while their only or oldest child is in ECE. (DCPS-speak for Early Childhood Education.)

The 2021-2022 school year data has L-T at 44 percent at or above grade level in math and 70 percent at or ablove grade level for ELA. This was after Covid disruptions.

Like many other CH schools, L-T experiences a large outflow after 4th grade. Tha't because

If you're worried that your kid will be an outlier for being academically advanced at L-T; they won't. I'm not sure what "teaching college" means, but if you are a tenure track professor, you son't be the only one in the parent body. Lots of highly professionas among the parent body--it is, after all, Capitol Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One little nit -- at no public school, even in the richest suburb, will 95% pass standardized tests. Eg., Bethesda Elementary: The percentage of students achieving proficiency in math is 48% (which is higher than the Maryland state average of 20%) for the 2020-21 school year. The percentage of students achieving proficiency in reading/language arts is 52% (which is higher than the Maryland state average of 36%) for the 2020-21 school year.

I agree with another poster that it will depend on your kid, how it affects them. If your kid does not learn to read easily, the Wilson method DCPS uses is good, better than what Montgomery County & many charters do, but there won't be the sense of urgency necessarily b/c so many kids will be slow to learn to read.

For a bright kid -- well, I would want the option of formal talented & gifted, since I was a kid who was bored in elementary school/above grade level in reading. But there is a lot of value to going to a socioeconomically diverse & racially diverse school -- particularly if your kid makes friendships across those lines.

Normal bright kids don’t need a G&T program in many Hill elementaries. I was in G&T as a kid - I actually think my kid’s peers on the Hill are on average more “bright” than where I came from. The Hill is highly educated. My kid’s classmates parents are prize wining journalists, actual rocket scientists, drafted major legislation…

One out of three bright parents isn’t bad!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way you've framed your question suggests you already have an opinion.

Your child won't be eligible for PreK3 for a couple of years. There's no guarantee they will be able to get into L-T that year, but probably will get in somewhere nearby. I think public preK3, at least for MC and UMC families is non-existent in Maryland and Virginia. A lot of DC couples who have always intended to move to suburbia stay in DC while their only or oldest child is in ECE. (DCPS-speak for Early Childhood Education.)

The 2021-2022 school year data has L-T at 44 percent at or above grade level in math and 70 percent at or ablove grade level for ELA. This was after Covid disruptions.

Like many other CH schools, L-T experiences a large outflow after 4th grade. Tha't because

If you're worried that your kid will be an outlier for being academically advanced at L-T; they won't. I'm not sure what "teaching college" means, but if you are a tenure track professor, you son't be the only one in the parent body. Lots of highly professionas among the parent body--it is, after all, Capitol Hill.

Not just an opinion, but a bone-deep conviction that their kid will be at/above grade level in all things and deserving of pull-out treatments tailored to their exceptionalism. And in 8 months this same parent will be posting on here about how she's heard that DCPS is too academic, too structured, and DD needs play based and no uniforms and self-directed forest school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were in the same place ten or so years ago. It's important to realize that there is no perfect solution, that there are various pros/cons. You decide what's important to your family and what might work better for your particular child (this is harder when you have multiple children with different needs).

We thought that for us, staying in Capitol Hill would be better. Yes, for SURE the kids did not receive as good an education. But they were in a nurturing environment that, despite some hiccups, allowed them to have a happy childhood. The local friends on the block, the bike rides to school, then being able to walk to school on their own--those were important to me.

I was not interested in making my kids study for AAP tests (and yes, you are not supposed to study, but I know for a fact people do). I wanted my kids to grow up in a more urban environment (I'm not talking about urban as code for diversity, I'm talking about being able to get around the city on your own). I think some aspects of diversity are overrated, and your kids might not necessarily become friends with kids of other SES backgrounds (which I think is the bigger gap than racial differences, from what I've seen). But still, getting along with people different from them in some way is an important skill. (But, again, I think at this point the suburbs may be more diverse in the true sense of that word.)

I feel like Capitol Hill allowed us to have that small town experience (SOTH for kiddo soccer, the kid musical events around the neighborhood) surrounded by people who similarly wanted to stay. I am sure someone will come and tell me they live in a suburb that has all of that--and maybe we didn't look hard enough. But so far I have no regrets.

For sure, middle school years are challenging. But so far we've made it work, and I have not regretted it. (But, you know, maybe I'll regret it in high school. Who knows.)

I think it's important to decide what's best for your family and then not worry about FOMO. Just remember that there is no perfect school out there. My expensive private high school had some terrible math teachers.

If you have a very bright kid, they will read a lot, take music lessons, participate in sports. They will sometimes be bored in school, but it won't take away from their brightness.

If you have a kid who is slow to mature, they will not be shamed and will be allowed to grow at their own pace. Sometimes you'll worry that they are being ignored, and you may need to step in yourself or with a tutor.

If you have a kid who is exactly on grade, they'll be happy and thrive.

If you have a kid with serious behavioral challenges, that's the toughest situation of all, but I'm not sure if moving to suburbs would really help.

This is one of the most thoughtful and accurate posts I have read in a long time. We thought about our Hill lives very similarly and actually valued very similar things but opted to leave. It was the right decision for us and we are very happy with where we landed but the balance could have tipped the other direction with different kids, and honestly if we liked our specific house and block more!