Importance of classmates being at grade levels for reading/math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread kind of makes me jealous of the vast majority of American parents who just enroll their kids in their suburban boundary school because that’s what’s available to them. Though I realize it’s a double edge sword, if those schools don’t work for their kid, most parents do not have another option. Moving or private school aren’t realistic to most of our country, where in the DC UMC it seems almost like a given if things aren’t working out.

it is extremely coming throughout the rest of the country for parents to choose where they live specifically for the school their home is zoned for. Yes, they just send their kid to the local school, but they didn’t randomly end up where they did.

DC seems to be full of more oblivious parents who wake up one day and realize the house they bought with the great walk to all the bars and coffee shops is zoned for a terrible school.

Other cities - not all of them, but a lot - have test-in programs and schools for kids with academic needs that won't be met otherwise. People outside have of DC have expressed surprise when I explain that, no, that's not a thing here. Obviously at some point as a parent you figure that out, but maybe not before you've moved here or bought a house.

I generally think people know their schools aren’t good but plan to lottery, go private, or move if it doesn’t work out. And for the most part, families who are buying in DC for the last ~10 years have the ability to do that. People buying for the schools in the burbs are often doing that because they know it’s their best option, whether the reason is that they can’t afford to move again or go private, or there isn’t really an option to go to an OOB or charter.

I think we all keep thinking the schools will get better by the time our kids are in them. We started at our title 1 IB in PK3, now kid is in 4th grade. We have been shut out of lottery every single year. The school has been better than expected but sadly all the friends we made in early grades have all moved, or gone to charters. Socially its ok, but there are no play dates or birthday invites etc. Lots of kids are driven to school and we don't meet the parents at playgorund etc. We are definitely moving before middle school. We had hoped that after 7 or 8 years the middle school feed would be a better option but its not. I have lived in DC for 25 years and realize it takes close to 20 years to turn a DCPS middle school around

Where do you live and where were you aiming for? There are totally solid schools that exhausted their entire 3rd grade lists this year, so it doesn't seem possible to get shut out every year unless you're just focused on the Deal MS feed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread kind of makes me jealous of the vast majority of American parents who just enroll their kids in their suburban boundary school because that’s what’s available to them. Though I realize it’s a double edge sword, if those schools don’t work for their kid, most parents do not have another option. Moving or private school aren’t realistic to most of our country, where in the DC UMC it seems almost like a given if things aren’t working out.

it is extremely coming throughout the rest of the country for parents to choose where they live specifically for the school their home is zoned for. Yes, they just send their kid to the local school, but they didn’t randomly end up where they did.

DC seems to be full of more oblivious parents who wake up one day and realize the house they bought with the great walk to all the bars and coffee shops is zoned for a terrible school.

Other cities - not all of them, but a lot - have test-in programs and schools for kids with academic needs that won't be met otherwise. People outside have of DC have expressed surprise when I explain that, no, that's not a thing here. Obviously at some point as a parent you figure that out, but maybe not before you've moved here or bought a house.

I generally think people know their schools aren’t good but plan to lottery, go private, or move if it doesn’t work out. And for the most part, families who are buying in DC for the last ~10 years have the ability to do that. People buying for the schools in the burbs are often doing that because they know it’s their best option, whether the reason is that they can’t afford to move again or go private, or there isn’t really an option to go to an OOB or charter.

Because back then there was no Latin or Basis stealing the above average scoring kids out of the public system. The more charters, the more problems, DCPS has.

I will say time went by very fast and when we bought in 2012 SH had a better reputation.

Yes those sneaky charter schools, snatching students away!

Or maybe their parents are choosing Latin and BASIS because DCPS can't get it together to offer an adequate middle school.

This x1000. If they offered tracking in all subjects then they would get buy in. The opposite is actually happening and they are taking away what little tracking there is.

So then families choose peer groups, schools that at least have a critical number of kids at grade level and above grade level.

Reality is take away charters and families will move to the burbs. They are not going to put their kid in a class of majority way below grade level kids for a kid on grade level and definately not a high performing kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

And then they would be one more year behind. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

And then they would be one more year behind. No thanks.

The kids leaving those schools are not behind when they arrive at Basis and Latin, but I realize that might be true from some other feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

Such a weak take. Setting aside that PCSB has no reason to care what this does to DCPS ES, what you are doing is blaming parents for having the audacity to choose MS and HS that provide a good education. As one of those families, and with all due respect, take tat weak sauce and good luck at Eastern.

I actually don't think this is a weak take. My kids go to LT and I 100% plan to enter the lottery for BASIS & Latin x 2 and I do not feel bad about that... I prefer those schools to what I know of S-H, but I value a guaranteed HS path because I don't want to move. I do not feel bad about making that judgment call and I will be open about my choice. That said, I very much wish that charter middle schools started in 6th like DCPS schools and I think DC messed up big time in differentiating the starting grade between the two systems for any number of reasons. I would LOVE to leave my kids at LT for 5th grade and still have the charter option and I bet most Brent/Maury/SWS/Watkins parents feel the same.

This makes no sense. Why would kids leaving in 5th be any different than leaving in 6th? The result is the same; parents seeking viable MS and HS paths. The "weak sauce" post argued against BASIS and Latin in whole. The idea being they are "stealing" kids. You tried to disagree by observing you'd prefer to wait until 6th to leave? Ok...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

And then they would be one more year behind. No thanks.

The kids leaving those schools are not behind when they arrive at Basis and Latin, but I realize that might be true from some other feeders.

Yes, because it is (contrary to what Maurey and Brent families seem to think) not all about you! There are lots of kids a middling to poor ES all over DC who move to Latin and BASIS. The sooner those schools can remediate and get those kids where they need to be, the better. I'd also argue that even if you look only at your self interest, you want the kids from other schools starting in 5th as well. Otherwise the gap to overcome is even greater by 6th. That's a less rigorous and acceptable environment for your snowflake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

And then they would be one more year behind. No thanks.

The kids leaving those schools are not behind when they arrive at Basis and Latin, but I realize that might be true from some other feeders.

Yes, that's the issue. We moved from our Hill elementary to a charter at 5th. I would have preferred that it start at 6th, but it really helps the kids from weaker elementaries, who start behind in 5th and would be even farther behind in 6th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

Such a weak take. Setting aside that PCSB has no reason to care what this does to DCPS ES, what you are doing is blaming parents for having the audacity to choose MS and HS that provide a good education. As one of those families, and with all due respect, take tat weak sauce and good luck at Eastern.

I actually don't think this is a weak take. My kids go to LT and I 100% plan to enter the lottery for BASIS & Latin x 2 and I do not feel bad about that... I prefer those schools to what I know of S-H, but I value a guaranteed HS path because I don't want to move. I do not feel bad about making that judgment call and I will be open about my choice. That said, I very much wish that charter middle schools started in 6th like DCPS schools and I think DC messed up big time in differentiating the starting grade between the two systems for any number of reasons. I would LOVE to leave my kids at LT for 5th grade and still have the charter option and I bet most Brent/Maury/SWS/Watkins parents feel the same.

This makes no sense. Why would kids leaving in 5th be any different than leaving in 6th? The result is the same; parents seeking viable MS and HS paths. The "weak sauce" post argued against BASIS and Latin in whole. The idea being they are "stealing" kids. You tried to disagree by observing you'd prefer to wait until 6th to leave? Ok...

The framing of the previous post isn't what I would have done, but I think there is actually a big difference between the effect on elementary school communities from taking kids prior to their last year and everyone graduating together and then heading off to different middle schools. It is actually hugely disruptive to Hill schools that 1/2 the class leaves between 4th and 5th for a whole bunch of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread kind of makes me jealous of the vast majority of American parents who just enroll their kids in their suburban boundary school because that’s what’s available to them. Though I realize it’s a double edge sword, if those schools don’t work for their kid, most parents do not have another option. Moving or private school aren’t realistic to most of our country, where in the DC UMC it seems almost like a given if things aren’t working out.

it is extremely coming throughout the rest of the country for parents to choose where they live specifically for the school their home is zoned for. Yes, they just send their kid to the local school, but they didn’t randomly end up where they did.

DC seems to be full of more oblivious parents who wake up one day and realize the house they bought with the great walk to all the bars and coffee shops is zoned for a terrible school.

Other cities - not all of them, but a lot - have test-in programs and schools for kids with academic needs that won't be met otherwise. People outside have of DC have expressed surprise when I explain that, no, that's not a thing here. Obviously at some point as a parent you figure that out, but maybe not before you've moved here or bought a house.

I generally think people know their schools aren’t good but plan to lottery, go private, or move if it doesn’t work out. And for the most part, families who are buying in DC for the last ~10 years have the ability to do that. People buying for the schools in the burbs are often doing that because they know it’s their best option, whether the reason is that they can’t afford to move again or go private, or there isn’t really an option to go to an OOB or charter.

I think we all keep thinking the schools will get better by the time our kids are in them. We started at our title 1 IB in PK3, now kid is in 4th grade. We have been shut out of lottery every single year. The school has been better than expected but sadly all the friends we made in early grades have all moved, or gone to charters. Socially its ok, but there are no play dates or birthday invites etc. Lots of kids are driven to school and we don't meet the parents at playgorund etc. We are definitely moving before middle school. We had hoped that after 7 or 8 years the middle school feed would be a better option but its not. I have lived in DC for 25 years and realize it takes close to 20 years to turn a DCPS middle school around

I've been on CH for 30 years. I have come around to the belief that the MS (and therefore HS) problem will never be solved as long as the CH elementary schools are split into 3 middle schools. The perpetuation of that feeder model has created a never-ending cycle of MS and HS failure. All of he people whining about and angry at charters should redirect their ire at DCPS and Bowser for having 3 MS on CH. DCPS can't change charters, but they can darn sure change the current CH feeder issues. But by all means, continue to howl at the charter boogeyman while DCPS screws us all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

Such a weak take. Setting aside that PCSB has no reason to care what this does to DCPS ES, what you are doing is blaming parents for having the audacity to choose MS and HS that provide a good education. As one of those families, and with all due respect, take tat weak sauce and good luck at Eastern.

I actually don't think this is a weak take. My kids go to LT and I 100% plan to enter the lottery for BASIS & Latin x 2 and I do not feel bad about that... I prefer those schools to what I know of S-H, but I value a guaranteed HS path because I don't want to move. I do not feel bad about making that judgment call and I will be open about my choice. That said, I very much wish that charter middle schools started in 6th like DCPS schools and I think DC messed up big time in differentiating the starting grade between the two systems for any number of reasons. I would LOVE to leave my kids at LT for 5th grade and still have the charter option and I bet most Brent/Maury/SWS/Watkins parents feel the same.

This makes no sense. Why would kids leaving in 5th be any different than leaving in 6th? The result is the same; parents seeking viable MS and HS paths. The "weak sauce" post argued against BASIS and Latin in whole. The idea being they are "stealing" kids. You tried to disagree by observing you'd prefer to wait until 6th to leave? Ok...

The framing of the previous post isn't what I would have done, but I think there is actually a big difference between the effect on elementary school communities from taking kids prior to their last year and everyone graduating together and then heading off to different middle schools. It is actually hugely disruptive to Hill schools that 1/2 the class leaves between 4th and 5th for a whole bunch of reasons.

"Effect on elementary school communities"? You mean like the Christmas tree sale? The idea of "graduating" from 5th grade is bananas level crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

Such a weak take. Setting aside that PCSB has no reason to care what this does to DCPS ES, what you are doing is blaming parents for having the audacity to choose MS and HS that provide a good education. As one of those families, and with all due respect, take tat weak sauce and good luck at Eastern.

I actually don't think this is a weak take. My kids go to LT and I 100% plan to enter the lottery for BASIS & Latin x 2 and I do not feel bad about that... I prefer those schools to what I know of S-H, but I value a guaranteed HS path because I don't want to move. I do not feel bad about making that judgment call and I will be open about my choice. That said, I very much wish that charter middle schools started in 6th like DCPS schools and I think DC messed up big time in differentiating the starting grade between the two systems for any number of reasons. I would LOVE to leave my kids at LT for 5th grade and still have the charter option and I bet most Brent/Maury/SWS/Watkins parents feel the same.

This makes no sense. Why would kids leaving in 5th be any different than leaving in 6th? The result is the same; parents seeking viable MS and HS paths. The "weak sauce" post argued against BASIS and Latin in whole. The idea being they are "stealing" kids. You tried to disagree by observing you'd prefer to wait until 6th to leave? Ok...

The framing of the previous post isn't what I would have done, but I think there is actually a big difference between the effect on elementary school communities from taking kids prior to their last year and everyone graduating together and then heading off to different middle schools. It is actually hugely disruptive to Hill schools that 1/2 the class leaves between 4th and 5th for a whole bunch of reasons.

Query: What part of "not all about Brent and Maury" did you not understand? Not. All. About. Your. Snowflake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

Such a weak take. Setting aside that PCSB has no reason to care what this does to DCPS ES, what you are doing is blaming parents for having the audacity to choose MS and HS that provide a good education. As one of those families, and with all due respect, take tat weak sauce and good luck at Eastern.

I actually don't think this is a weak take. My kids go to LT and I 100% plan to enter the lottery for BASIS & Latin x 2 and I do not feel bad about that... I prefer those schools to what I know of S-H, but I value a guaranteed HS path because I don't want to move. I do not feel bad about making that judgment call and I will be open about my choice. That said, I very much wish that charter middle schools started in 6th like DCPS schools and I think DC messed up big time in differentiating the starting grade between the two systems for any number of reasons. I would LOVE to leave my kids at LT for 5th grade and still have the charter option and I bet most Brent/Maury/SWS/Watkins parents feel the same.

This makes no sense. Why would kids leaving in 5th be any different than leaving in 6th? The result is the same; parents seeking viable MS and HS paths. The "weak sauce" post argued against BASIS and Latin in whole. The idea being they are "stealing" kids. You tried to disagree by observing you'd prefer to wait until 6th to leave? Ok...

The reason it's different is that it contributes to fear around staying. At urban schools, the MC and UMC families are often skittish. When people see a signifiant portion of each cohort leaves between 4th and 5th to attend charter middle schools, it makes them start worrying about middle school. People who are risk averse will look ahead and decided they don't want to risk not getting a charter spot for middle, so they'll start looking at charters, private, or moving before 4th. So there's a follow on effect on the 3rd and 2nd grade classes as well.

If all middle schools started at 6th, you'd still get plenty of people opting for charters for middle. But I think you'd see more people sticking with the elementary school all the way through, because now they don't have to worry that their kid will lose a bunch of peers in 5th. They can feel confident that most of the cohort will stay, and that will reduce the number of people leaving in younger grades as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big problem that I see is the 5th-grade exodus to the charters that start in 5th. Maury, Brent, L-T (and probably Watkins) see a major number of students leave after 4th grade to join Basis and Latin, which then allows for the same number of spots open to OOB students looking for a "better" MS feeder. It's the DCPS-Charter musical chair routine.

If the PCSB did not authorize charters to start these in-between grade schools (5th-12Th), more kids could finish elementary in peace and the test scores would look a whole lot different.

Such a weak take. Setting aside that PCSB has no reason to care what this does to DCPS ES, what you are doing is blaming parents for having the audacity to choose MS and HS that provide a good education. As one of those families, and with all due respect, take tat weak sauce and good luck at Eastern.

I actually don't think this is a weak take. My kids go to LT and I 100% plan to enter the lottery for BASIS & Latin x 2 and I do not feel bad about that... I prefer those schools to what I know of S-H, but I value a guaranteed HS path because I don't want to move. I do not feel bad about making that judgment call and I will be open about my choice. That said, I very much wish that charter middle schools started in 6th like DCPS schools and I think DC messed up big time in differentiating the starting grade between the two systems for any number of reasons. I would LOVE to leave my kids at LT for 5th grade and still have the charter option and I bet most Brent/Maury/SWS/Watkins parents feel the same.

This makes no sense. Why would kids leaving in 5th be any different than leaving in 6th? The result is the same; parents seeking viable MS and HS paths. The "weak sauce" post argued against BASIS and Latin in whole. The idea being they are "stealing" kids. You tried to disagree by observing you'd prefer to wait until 6th to leave? Ok...

The reason it's different is that it contributes to fear around staying. At urban schools, the MC and UMC families are often skittish. When people see a signifiant portion of each cohort leaves between 4th and 5th to attend charter middle schools, it makes them start worrying about middle school. People who are risk averse will look ahead and decided they don't want to risk not getting a charter spot for middle, so they'll start looking at charters, private, or moving before 4th. So there's a follow on effect on the 3rd and 2nd grade classes as well.

If all middle schools started at 6th, you'd still get plenty of people opting for charters for middle. But I think you'd see more people sticking with the elementary school all the way through, because now they don't have to worry that their kid will lose a bunch of peers in 5th. They can feel confident that most of the cohort will stay, and that will reduce the number of people leaving in younger grades as well.

Exactly this. People are being intentionally obtuse if they think this is about selling Christmas trees. And my kid is not at Brent or Maury. There are quite a few schools this affects.

[Anonymous]

It is maybe small in the scheme of things but socially somewhat disruptive for the kids who stay for 5th grade that Latin and Basis have 5th grade as their entry year. It comes with long-time friends/classmates saying the in-bound middle school is not very good etc. (because those kids also have complicated feelings about leaving early). This is not just at Brent and Maury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is maybe small in the scheme of things but socially somewhat disruptive for the kids who stay for 5th grade that Latin and Basis have 5th grade as their entry year. It comes with long-time friends/classmates saying the in-bound middle school is not very good etc. (because those kids also have complicated feelings about leaving early). This is not just at Brent and Maury.

I’m sure you’re correct, but it still serves the greater good for the students from the weaker elementary schools to get to a strong middle school as early as possible. Think about what you’re arguing for and who it would hurt.