PDA Autism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster, but there are a couple professionals I trust (a behavioral pediatrician and a psychiatrist) who are very familiar with PDA type traits but are reluctant to consider it a helpful diagnosis and don't think it should be in the DSM.

regardless, it can be helpful to read about it and pick up behavioral parenting tips like people listed above.

For some kids, having a choice is helpful. Not "please put on your shoes" but like pp suggests "your shoes are by the door. Do you want to put them on yourself or do you want help?"

Or for older children "Dinner is at 6pm. Do you want to unload the dishwasher and set the table now or set an alarm to do it at 5:45 or sometime in between?"

My experience with a PDA child is that many of the typical parenting tricks don't work for her. Choices are a prime example. All the parenting books say to give your child choices, but for my PDA kid, choices are just another demand that you're placing on her and makes her more stressed.

NP. Same with my DD. And she goes from 0-60 when she feels overwhelmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

You are not an expert, you only have an opinion. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors. I'm sure people would say similar things about your SN child (assuming you are not just trolling)

Not trolling. And we have spent many many many hours with this family over the years. They are the most permissive parents I’ve ever met. The kid wasn’t always like this, they have grown into this behavior. Also I've been alone with the kid and they’re completely fine with me, even doing non preferred activities. I know I’m not an expert, but I know what I’ve seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

You are not an expert, you only have an opinion. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors. I'm sure people would say similar things about your SN child (assuming you are not just trolling)

Not trolling. And we have spent many many many hours with this family over the years. They are the most permissive parents I’ve ever met. The kid wasn’t always like this, they have grown into this behavior. Also I've been alone with the kid and they’re completely fine with me, even doing non preferred activities. I know I’m not an expert, but I know what I’ve seen.

I immediately thought “which of my neighbors posted this?”

The kid is fine because they are masking. They are using all mental energy to hold it together.

Home is a safe space where the mask come off and the kid explodes like a soda that’s been shaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

Toss off. You have no idea how outrageously hard it is to parent these kids. Nearly killed me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

You are not an expert, you only have an opinion. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors. I'm sure people would say similar things about your SN child (assuming you are not just trolling)

Not trolling. And we have spent many many many hours with this family over the years. They are the most permissive parents I’ve ever met. The kid wasn’t always like this, they have grown into this behavior. Also I've been alone with the kid and they’re completely fine with me, even doing non preferred activities. I know I’m not an expert, but I know what I’ve seen.

I believe you. I’ve seen a similar situation with my own eyes, including tolerating violent behavior. The parent believes sincerely that any form of discipline makes children feel unsafe. This resulted in a divorce and abuse allegations against other parent for imposing totally normal discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

You are not an expert, you only have an opinion. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors. I'm sure people would say similar things about your SN child (assuming you are not just trolling)

Not trolling. And we have spent many many many hours with this family over the years. They are the most permissive parents I’ve ever met. The kid wasn’t always like this, they have grown into this behavior. Also I've been alone with the kid and they’re completely fine with me, even doing non preferred activities. I know I’m not an expert, but I know what I’ve seen.

I immediately thought “which of my neighbors posted this?”

The kid is fine because they are masking. They are using all mental energy to hold it together.

Home is a safe space where the mask come off and the kid explodes like a soda that’s been shaken.

I hope you’ve consulted with an actual behavioral expert trained at a place like KKI. Removing all discipline is not the answer, nor is “masking.” Demand avoidance by definition cannot be “pathological” if the child can handle demands in other settings. There’s something specifically happening at home to trigger it. That’s not to deny that each environment is different, but there’s a great deal you can do to change the way demands are made to be successful.

[Anonymous]

Make sure you know if its "demand avoidance" or "sensory dysregulation" . Brushing and shoes are uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

You are not an expert, you only have an opinion. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors. I'm sure people would say similar things about your SN child (assuming you are not just trolling)

Not trolling. And we have spent many many many hours with this family over the years. They are the most permissive parents I’ve ever met. The kid wasn’t always like this, they have grown into this behavior. Also I've been alone with the kid and they’re completely fine with me, even doing non preferred activities. I know I’m not an expert, but I know what I’ve seen.

I immediately thought “which of my neighbors posted this?”

The kid is fine because they are masking. They are using all mental energy to hold it together.

Home is a safe space where the mask come off and the kid explodes like a soda that’s been shaken.

I hope you’ve consulted with an actual behavioral expert trained at a place like KKI. Removing all discipline is not the answer, nor is “masking.” Demand avoidance by definition cannot be “pathological” if the child can handle demands in other settings. There’s something specifically happening at home to trigger it. That’s not to deny that each environment is different, but there’s a great deal you can do to change the way demands are made to be successful.

I'm not sure where you are getting this definition. Pathological means "being such to a degree that is extreme, excessive, or markedly abnormal" or "extreme in a way that is not normal or that shows an illness or mental problem". It doesn't mean "avoids [the thing] 100% of the time".

I've found it most helpful to view PDA through the lens of a cumulative nervous system disability - demands, or any loss of autonomy, trigger the body's fight/flight/freeze/fawn system. And it is cumulative, meaning ones' threshold for tolerance may allow a child to get through a school day using freeze/fawn (masking), but by the time they get home to a safer space, additional demands trigger the more extreme fight or flight reactions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This sounds just like my kiddo with autism who also experiences anxiety. Regardless of the label, the doctor's advice is sound. When you show that you can be collaborative and flexible rather than bossy and confrontational, she'll learn to work with you.

+1
This just sounds like autism to me. Anxiety goes hand in hand, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

You are not an expert, you only have an opinion. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors. I'm sure people would say similar things about your SN child (assuming you are not just trolling)

Not trolling. And we have spent many many many hours with this family over the years. They are the most permissive parents I’ve ever met. The kid wasn’t always like this, they have grown into this behavior. Also I've been alone with the kid and they’re completely fine with me, even doing non preferred activities. I know I’m not an expert, but I know what I’ve seen.

I immediately thought “which of my neighbors posted this?”

The kid is fine because they are masking. They are using all mental energy to hold it together.

Home is a safe space where the mask come off and the kid explodes like a soda that’s been shaken.

I hope you’ve consulted with an actual behavioral expert trained at a place like KKI. Removing all discipline is not the answer, nor is “masking.” Demand avoidance by definition cannot be “pathological” if the child can handle demands in other settings. There’s something specifically happening at home to trigger it. That’s not to deny that each environment is different, but there’s a great deal you can do to change the way demands are made to be successful.

I'm not sure where you are getting this definition. Pathological means "being such to a degree that is extreme, excessive, or markedly abnormal" or "extreme in a way that is not normal or that shows an illness or mental problem". It doesn't mean "avoids [the thing] 100% of the time".

I've found it most helpful to view PDA through the lens of a cumulative nervous system disability - demands, or any loss of autonomy, trigger the body's fight/flight/freeze/fawn system. And it is cumulative, meaning ones' threshold for tolerance may allow a child to get through a school day using freeze/fawn (masking), but by the time they get home to a safer space, additional demands trigger the more extreme fight or flight reactions.

It can’t be a stable trait if you literally do not see it in an environment that is in fact FULL of demands (school). This honestly sounds like a rationale to avoid the hard work of changing discipline and structure at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds just like my kiddo with autism who also experiences anxiety. Regardless of the label, the doctor's advice is sound. When you show that you can be collaborative and flexible rather than bossy and confrontational, she'll learn to work with you.

+1
This just sounds like autism to me. Anxiety goes hand in hand, too.

Yes. Literally the first thing a behavior psychologist will teach you is how to change the way to make demands to increase the odds of compliance and reduce power struggles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People keep trying to make pda happen but in its current form it is so weird and honestly toxic. If you join any of the parent groups you’ll see they all use it as an excuse to literally let their kid avoid everything based on this theory - you have kids not going to school ever, not leaving the house etc etc. needs better definition

We know a family who has labeled their child this without ever having properly parented them. They never say no to the child, let them get out of any uncomfortable situation. I’m not even a very strict parent and I see how much damage they’ve done to them. We are close neighbors and have been for years and have known the kid since they were very small. I feel sad for the family. While I do assume that this diagnosis does exist for some, I don’t think it’s the case for them.

You are not an expert, you only have an opinion. You have no idea what people are dealing with behind closed doors. I'm sure people would say similar things about your SN child (assuming you are not just trolling)

Not trolling. And we have spent many many many hours with this family over the years. They are the most permissive parents I’ve ever met. The kid wasn’t always like this, they have grown into this behavior. Also I've been alone with the kid and they’re completely fine with me, even doing non preferred activities. I know I’m not an expert, but I know what I’ve seen.

I immediately thought “which of my neighbors posted this?”

The kid is fine because they are masking. They are using all mental energy to hold it together.

Home is a safe space where the mask come off and the kid explodes like a soda that’s been shaken.

This sounds like social media information that is not backed by evidence.

Collaboration and flexibility are good approaches in parenting in moderation, but removing all demands could seriously backfire.

[Anonymous]

I have worked with kids with ED and ASD for years, and I can think of only a couple who I would suspect would now be diagnosed with PDA. Even in our very structured setting, they would not comply with even simple requests, even if it meant getting a reinforcer that they wanted. It was like their brains were hijacking them. What a hard way to live for both kid and parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked with kids with ED and ASD for years, and I can think of only a couple who I would suspect would now be diagnosed with PDA. Even in our very structured setting, they would not comply with even simple requests, even if it meant getting a reinforcer that they wanted. It was like their brains were hijacking them. What a hard way to live for both kid and parents.

I’m the pp with the neighbor…this is why I’m not certain this is what the kid has. If it’s a pathological issue then they can’t just turn it on and off. And wouldn’t it have been there for their whole life?

[Anonymous]

True PDA means the inability to comply with any demands. Like, if the demand is "go get your video game console and buy a new game"- that is a demand that a person with true PDA cannot handle, even if it's the most preferred activity in the world. Most kids don't want to comply with demands to do chores and homework, for reasons such as boredom, stress, worries, frustration, control issues...etc.