2nd Grade Gifted and Talented Survey

[Anonymous]

It's like the surveys from companies - "Anything less than a 10 is a fail." They're so poorly designed and poorly applied. Just check the boxes, tell them your kid is great, and don't look back. Everyone will say that the gifted designation doesn't matter for anything, but I figure it can't hurt.

[Anonymous]

It is so complicated. Does that mean it concludes that reading score is a lot more important than math assessment score to be considered for GT program or enrichment program in mcps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is so complicated. Does that mean it concludes that reading score is a lot more important than math assessment score to be considered for GT program or enrichment program in mcps?

For the CES programs, yes. But for advanced-style courses at your own elementary school, no. If your ES uses ELC in grades 4 and 5, for example, prior performance on the MAP-R and in reading and writing is going to be the most important; if your ES teaches compacted math (Math 4/5 and Math 5/6), then the MAP-M and prior math performance are the important factors to get into those classes. At our ES the ELC class is basically also the compacted math class; there are only 1 or 2 kids who are in one and not the other. So this cohort has basically spent most of their time together for the last two years. Fortunately it's a great group of kids - we are lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so complicated. Does that mean it concludes that reading score is a lot more important than math assessment score to be considered for GT program or enrichment program in mcps?

For the CES programs, yes. But for advanced-style courses at your own elementary school, no. If your ES uses ELC in grades 4 and 5, for example, prior performance on the MAP-R and in reading and writing is going to be the most important; if your ES teaches compacted math (Math 4/5 and Math 5/6), then the MAP-M and prior math performance are the important factors to get into those classes. At our ES the ELC class is basically also the compacted math class; there are only 1 or 2 kids who are in one and not the other. So this cohort has basically spent most of their time together for the last two years. Fortunately it's a great group of kids - we are lucky.

Just so everyone knows the programs you mention (CES and ELC and compacted math) are entirely unrelated to this second grade parent survey. That “gifted and talented” state identification of meaningless and doesn’t mean your child will or will not receive any different instruction or extra enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Is meaningless not of meaningless, sorry for typo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is meaningless not of meaningless, sorry for typo.

Yes, meaningless. Except for bragging rights with their cousins.

[Anonymous]

So GT identification (SIPPI) is state-mandated, but not state-defined. MCPS conducts screening in 2nd and 3rd (trying to pick up any missed in the 2nd-grade review), and, as abilities may develop in fits and starts, again in 5th and 7th. Once identified, a student does not need to be re-identified. Criteria are in the FAQ https://bit.ly/gt-identification-2023.

Also state-mandated is offering instruction to meet the needs of identified GT students. MCPS curricula have enrichment paradigms, but they often have been denigrated as not being true GT education, and they are sometimes difficult for teachers to implement effectively. The latter is due to the combination of lack of training for enrichment (optional and very brief) and wide ability ranges in mamy classrooms (MCPS's philosophy limits cohorting, and only a few schools tend.to have a relatively homogeneous group of highly-able students).

In addition to the enrichments of the standard Elementary curriculum and with placement separately determined from the GT screening are the Centers for Enriched Study (language/social studies-focused), the Enriched Literacy Curriculum (language) and accelerated Math (4th, 5th & 6th-grade Math covered over 2 years). Each of these 4th- & 5th-grade programs has its own selection criteria based on performance in 3rd grade; ELC is supposed to be available to those who qualified for CES but did not get placed via the lottery, but may not be restricted to that group. Similar criteria-based-with-lottery-placement magnets and alternative local-school course options are available in Middle School.

Despite these being available, the criteria being different from GT identification begs the question, "What does my child receive from GT designation?" Unfortunately, without rigor in employing the available enrichments, MCPS does not provide a reliable, clear answer.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone got 2nd grade gifted and talented survey result yet? How will parebts know the result?

We did not get cogat test done at school for unknown reason, and I wonder if they will give out the result by the end of school year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We filled it out, though according to the directions they gave for GT designation, it doesn't seem like our 7 yo will qualify, although she's 99th percentile on the math MAP, because her Dibels score wasn't that great. They had something (don't remember where) on how the kids could qualify for GT designation - they had to fulfill 3 or 4 criteria based on different tests + the behavioral questionnaire that the parents filled out or one filled out by the teacher. The tests included Dibels, math MAP, and some other math and English county tests that I believe we never got the results back on (so she may yet qualify, but I'm not counting on it). The math MAP cutoff was 80th percentile, so I'm a bit annoyed that DD probably won't qualify, but I'm also not sure it really matters.... (Her Dibels score also got dragged down by the "Decoding" part, where they read made-up-words, but her reading is actually really good, so I'm not concerned about it in the least.)

You should care, or at least keep an eye on it. In 2nd grade, reading is simple enough that a smart kid can memorize all the needed words without being a strong decoder. But as she gets older, she won't be able to keep up if her decoding isn't strong -- and that's what the nonsense word decoding measures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so complicated. Does that mean it concludes that reading score is a lot more important than math assessment score to be considered for GT program or enrichment program in mcps?

For the CES programs, yes. But for advanced-style courses at your own elementary school, no. If your ES uses ELC in grades 4 and 5, for example, prior performance on the MAP-R and in reading and writing is going to be the most important; if your ES teaches compacted math (Math 4/5 and Math 5/6), then the MAP-M and prior math performance are the important factors to get into those classes. At our ES the ELC class is basically also the compacted math class; there are only 1 or 2 kids who are in one and not the other. So this cohort has basically spent most of their time together for the last two years. Fortunately it's a great group of kids - we are lucky.

Just so everyone knows the programs you mention (CES and ELC and compacted math) are entirely unrelated to this second grade parent survey. That “gifted and talented” state identification of meaningless and doesn’t mean your child will or will not receive any different instruction or extra enrichment.

The State requires the identification of gifted children but does not require any specific action based on it. The bar is also pretty low. I remember reading one year that every single kid in a Bethesda ES qualified as gifted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We filled it out, though according to the directions they gave for GT designation, it doesn't seem like our 7 yo will qualify, although she's 99th percentile on the math MAP, because her Dibels score wasn't that great. They had something (don't remember where) on how the kids could qualify for GT designation - they had to fulfill 3 or 4 criteria based on different tests + the behavioral questionnaire that the parents filled out or one filled out by the teacher. The tests included Dibels, math MAP, and some other math and English county tests that I believe we never got the results back on (so she may yet qualify, but I'm not counting on it). The math MAP cutoff was 80th percentile, so I'm a bit annoyed that DD probably won't qualify, but I'm also not sure it really matters.... (Her Dibels score also got dragged down by the "Decoding" part, where they read made-up-words, but her reading is actually really good, so I'm not concerned about it in the least.)

I’m a reading teacher and I hope they don’t take DIBELS into consideration! What a shame that would be.

[Anonymous]

Has the result out yet for 2nd grader? The school is about to be ended in 4 weeks. Kid will have MAP M testing next week. Are they waiting for next week MAP M result?

[Anonymous]

Does MCPS directly notify parents if a kid is deemed “gifted”?

Our context is an immersion program, in case it matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does MCPS directly notify parents if a kid is deemed “gifted”?

Our context is an immersion program, in case it matters.

Not in immersion, but I never learned if my kids were designated “gifted” in second. They were in CES lottery and compacted math, so I have to think they were, but no one ever confirmed. Because it doesn’t matter at all - it doesn’t impact placement or anything at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does MCPS directly notify parents if a kid is deemed “gifted”?

Our context is an immersion program, in case it matters.

Not in immersion, but I never learned if my kids were designated “gifted” in second. They were in CES lottery and compacted math, so I have to think they were, but no one ever confirmed. Because it doesn’t matter at all - it doesn’t impact placement or anything at all.

GT identification/designation is called SIPPI -- see the longer post a few above. Students in immersion are evaluated the same way as those not in immersion. It can matter if the school does a good job with the curricular enrichments that MCPS uses to satisfy the vague state requirement to address GT need. It also can matter to support individual advocacy to address the same if the school is not fulfilling the requirement with fidelity. As noted, however, CES/ELC and elementary Math acceleration operate on a distinct identification paradigm.