Time To Reimagine Council Recall Procedures?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

NP. People always think their issue is the special one that demands special exceptions from normal rules, but they almost never do. We have elections, people are entitled to pick their representatives and have those representatives actually govern without constant repeats of those elections. The people just picked Frumin and Allen and a year to let them do the job they were just selected to do is appropriate. Your complaint boils down to "I think their policies are bad" which is fine (and maybe even true), but the majority of the voters didn't agree, and the thing about living in a democracy is that you have to live with other people's choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

Who's "we"?

Who is we? How bout the 65 people who’ve had their cars violently taken from them in 2023?

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/carjacking

Or, the elderly couple who were stripped at gunpoint?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/couple-walking-around-dupont-circle-robbed-of-canada-goose-jackets/3273067/

Or, the small business owners robbed multiple times?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/suspect-robs-chocolate-shop-twice-hits-another-store-in-northwest-dc-police/3272241/


Probably a few other folks too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

Who's "we"?

Who is we? How bout the 65 people who’ve had their cars violently taken from them in 2023?

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/carjacking

Or, the elderly couple who were stripped at gunpoint?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/couple-walking-around-dupont-circle-robbed-of-canada-goose-jackets/3273067/

Or, the small business owners robbed multiple times?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/suspect-robs-chocolate-shop-twice-hits-another-store-in-northwest-dc-police/3272241/


Probably a few other folks too.

Have you asked them whether they are Ward 3 voters who support changes to recall procedures for council members? If not, why are you speaking on their behalf? The "elderly" couple doesn't even live in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

Crime is down. Turn off the Fox News and go walk around outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

Crime is down. Turn off the Fox News and go walk around outside.

DC Council 2019-2022: “Let’s decriminalize a bunch of crimes”

Rando DCUM Poster 2023: “Wow, crime went down”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

Who's "we"?

Who is we? How bout the 65 people who’ve had their cars violently taken from them in 2023?

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/carjacking

Or, the elderly couple who were stripped at gunpoint?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/couple-walking-around-dupont-circle-robbed-of-canada-goose-jackets/3273067/

Or, the small business owners robbed multiple times?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/suspect-robs-chocolate-shop-twice-hits-another-store-in-northwest-dc-police/3272241/


Probably a few other folks too.

Have you asked them whether they are Ward 3 voters who support changes to recall procedures for council members? If not, why are you speaking on their behalf? The "elderly" couple doesn't even live in DC.

I support whatever gets you idiots out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

Who's "we"?

Who is we? How bout the 65 people who’ve had their cars violently taken from them in 2023?

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/carjacking

Or, the elderly couple who were stripped at gunpoint?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/couple-walking-around-dupont-circle-robbed-of-canada-goose-jackets/3273067/

Or, the small business owners robbed multiple times?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/suspect-robs-chocolate-shop-twice-hits-another-store-in-northwest-dc-police/3272241/


Probably a few other folks too.

p.s. Add Democrat congresswoman to the “we”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/09/politics/angie-craig-assault/index.html

[Anonymous]

better to spend time to pass Term limits. DC council members really see it as a job for life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

What makes you think that (a) a recall would be successful or (b) it would change anything about the public safety policies you think are so urgently in need of action? The Council overrode Bowser’s veto of the criminal code changes, it’s not like it’s Frumin and Allen and then everyone else votes completely differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

Who's "we"?

Who is we? How bout the 65 people who’ve had their cars violently taken from them in 2023?

https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/carjacking

Or, the elderly couple who were stripped at gunpoint?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/couple-walking-around-dupont-circle-robbed-of-canada-goose-jackets/3273067/

Or, the small business owners robbed multiple times?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/suspect-robs-chocolate-shop-twice-hits-another-store-in-northwest-dc-police/3272241/


Probably a few other folks too.

p.s. Add Democrat congresswoman to the “we”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/09/politics/angie-craig-assault/index.html

She turned around and showed up in Congress today to join Republicans in overturning reduced penalties for violent crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

The alarming recent violent crimes notwithstanding, Mary Cheh could have avoided becoming a victim of crime if she had taken the fairly reasonable preventive step of bringing her car keys with her when she left her car to pick up her food, rather than leaving it running and unlocked on the street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

The alarming recent violent crimes notwithstanding, Mary Cheh could have avoided becoming a victim of crime if she had taken the fairly reasonable preventive step of bringing her car keys with her when she left her car to pick up her food, rather than leaving it running and unlocked on the street.

By “recent” do you mean the past 18 months? Well then, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

The alarming recent violent crimes notwithstanding, Mary Cheh could have avoided becoming a victim of crime if she had taken the fairly reasonable preventive step of bringing her car keys with her when she left her car to pick up her food, rather than leaving it running and unlocked on the street.

By “recent” do you mean the past 18 months? Well then, yes.

My only point was that Mary Cheh -- unlike most victims of crime -- could easily have prevented that crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's good reason not to have recalls within the first year after an election — it prevents just redoing the election immediately after it's over. (Imagine, for instance, that there was a provision for recalls of federal elected officials in place after the 2020 election, and you can see why this is a good policy in the abstract.)

Also, there's no particular reason that HR policies should be exactly equivalent between private corporations and elected official positions.

That's all without even getting into the substance of whatever your specific gripe with Frumin is; it's been about a month since he was sworn in, so it seems hard to imagine that any large number of voters in Ward 3 have "seen enough" to want to reverse the results of the election. It may feel like it's been longer, because he effectively won office when he won the Democratic primary last summer, but that isn't the case.

Normally, I think most people would agree with you. But, this is about public safety. We can’t wait another year for Frumin and Allen to evolve on this issue. It took Mary Cheh personally becoming a victim to get her to pay attention. Lives and our economy are literally in the balance. We need action NOW!

NP. People always think their issue is the special one that demands special exceptions from normal rules, but they almost never do. We have elections, people are entitled to pick their representatives and have those representatives actually govern without constant repeats of those elections. The people just picked Frumin and Allen and a year to let them do the job they were just selected to do is appropriate. Your complaint boils down to "I think their policies are bad" which is fine (and maybe even true), but the majority of the voters didn't agree, and the thing about living in a democracy is that you have to live with other people's choices.

Nobody picked Allen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:better to spend time to pass Term limits. DC council members really see it as a job for life.

Agree