Cluttered house and stressed out spouse

[Anonymous]

You think you're 100% right, and he has been trying to tell you (rather unsuccessfully) that he prefers the house in another condition. You both need to talk to each other and find some middle ground.

[Anonymous]

My ex-wife was also a slob. I enjoy living in a nice, clean house now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:House Rule - If it bugs you enough to feel the need to say something about it, it bugs you enough to clean something up.

If your DH is bothered, he should be in charge of picking a 15 minute chunk of time every evening for decluttering for the whole family. He has to do all the mental load of planning, getting everyone to participate, leading from the front, making it fun, and supervise, evaluating and adjusting. When is it? Who does what? What items become regular declutter items? Which areas of the house?

Very uncool to criticize you. You are not the master maid or house fairy.

Since you admit this has t happened much before there IS likely something bothering him. It could be the chaotic, rotating mess you talk about. It could be work or extend family stress?

Meanwhile, pls do try to enforce tidy ness and cleaning up BEFORE moving in the next thing.
This is basic and schools reinforce that as well.
No need to start a book when the games aren’t back up on the shelf, or start TV if the table wasn’t cleared, or leave legos box out and start a book. Pick up after yourself, don’t leave it for the Magic Fairy to do or the “im gonna open it tomorrow” excuse.

[Anonymous]

I don't mind clutter unless I am stressed and then the clutter makes me feel like I am suffocating and need it cleaned up. When my brain is chaotic and cluttered due to stess, I need my environment organized. When my brain is relaxed, I don't mind a more chaotic environment.

I think you need to get to the root of DHs stress. It seems like he needs some kind of support he isn't getting at home and it can be hard in a house of 4 people to stress reduce when the people around you don't share your stress management strategies.

[Anonymous]

The holidays stress me out too. The kids home, the darkness early, everyone off schedule, travel stress, the mess of it all, decorating only to un-decorate, it feels like a hamster wheel. I love January.

I think you can focus on returning your house to post holiday normal. Then start purging. It's the only solution. Get rid of things as if your life depended on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:House Rule - If it bugs you enough to feel the need to say something about it, it bugs you enough to clean something up.

If your DH is bothered, he should be in charge of picking a 15 minute chunk of time every evening for decluttering for the whole family. He has to do all the mental load of planning, getting everyone to participate, leading from the front, making it fun, and supervise, evaluating and adjusting. When is it? Who does what? What items become regular declutter items? Which areas of the house?

Very uncool to criticize you. You are not the master maid or house fairy.

While I agree the DH in this case is going about it wrong, I disagree with this rule because it creates a dynamic where the person most “bothered” by mess winds up cleaning up other people’s messes.

What happens when the meat spouse goes into the kitchen to prepare a meal and discovers the messy spouse has left paperwork, half the groceries, and their dishes from lunch on the counter? They can’t say “hey babe, can you come clear this off so I can get dinner started?” Since only they are bothered?

There has to be some baseline agreement on keeping shared areas reasonably clean and uncluttered. Especially when the clutter obstructs other activities. You can’t just dump all the cleaning/organizing on the person who cares most about because this creates huge inequities in who maintains order in the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His behavior is unkind and I think you need to address that directly. These are not appropriate ways to express his frustration with the clutter.

However, as the person in my marriage who is much more bothered by clutter/mess than my spouse, I can offer some insight into what might be going on in his head and ways you might be able to meet him halfway.

Now, in my house I do most of the cleaning and organizing, so I think it's different. But like your DH, I am very mentally impacted by lots of clutter and mess -- it's not just that it causes anxiety, it's that it can create a snowball of effects that really impact my mental wellness. Like lots of clutter can make it hard to find things I need, or that the kids need. It can make it harder to accomplish basic tasks (like clutter on kitchen counters makes it hard to cook, or clutter on the dining table adds a task to what has to be done before we eat dinner). When the house is cluttered, I find myself fielding lots of requests from my spouse and from kids about being unable to find things, and because I am the person who is more organized and therefore does a better job of keeping track of where I last saw things and where they might be. This is disruptive for me -- I'll have to pause one task to go help find an item, then by the time I turn back to my task, someone else can't find something. Clutter also increases the likelihood of "a big f**kup" like misplacing the gift we bought for a birthday party, a child being completely unable to find their ballet shoes before class, etc. It's just stress on stress.

For me, I can tolerate some controlled clutter up to a point, but we can't just... let it go. We have to be maintaining some sense of order. I'm big on certain surfaces being regularly cleared (kitchen counters, dining table, coffee table -- all places used by all family members and used regularly, and also places that tend to attract random items that people didn't feel like finding a better place for). Other clutter, in bedrooms especially, I can deal with much easier. Sometimes my DD's room is a total wreck, but I can walk away from that and say "we'll deal with it once the holidays are over" and it doesn't put me on edge. But piles of crap all over the dining table, especially if it was recently cleared off for last night's dinner and these piles appeared over a course of hours? No, I would like some help from the family in finding better places for those items, or at least organizing them into stacks or bins or something so it's not just a mess of random items.

I also ask for help from my family in being willing to purge things that are not being used for long periods of time. This is probably the biggest thing my DH has changed over the years to accommodate me, and I really appreciate it. It is his tendency to hold onto things even when they are broken or unusable, "just in case." I meet him halfway by allowing that if something is in good condition and he says he will use it again, we will find a way to store it even if I am skeptical that this will happen. I'm not trying to get him to get rid of all his stuff. But we have a rule in the house that broken or heavily worn items that have not been used within the last year, I can get rid of them without even asking. This pushes him to get stuff fixed if he really wants to keep it, or to use it. But we can't just have these little graveyards of broken consumer items all over the house because that is space we genuinely need for stuff we use, or as areas to play in or work in or prepare food, etc.

So while I do think you need to discuss with him HOW he expresses his frustration about the clutter, and he has to learn to deal with the stress/anxiety it causes in more productive ways, I also think that taking the position "whatever, families have clutter, it's fine and he needs to get used to it" is not going to have the desired result for you. He is acting out of a place of stress and anxiety and he knows that if you can reduce the clutter in your life, you could reduce the stress and anxiety. That is worth trying to meet him halfway on at least the biggest pressure points, whatever those are.

All of this. Clutter makes my life harder. It makes every task more difficult. It makes the children and my DH pester me more, asking me where things are, and doing things in the wrong places because the right places are too messy. I hate it so much, and I hate that nobody else cares or helps me. My work spaces become everyone else's dumping grounds and I feel totally disrespected.

Tell your DH that you understand it is stressing him out, and propose a step by step approach to reducing your possessions and developing storage solutions. One micro-zone at a time.

IME the only thing that works is getting rid of a lot of stuff.

My MIL did the following:
Lives in a small 2 Br house with children and husband.
Everyone had 5 shirts, 5 undergarments, 3 pants, 1 pair of shoes.
Books from the library, 3 per person.
Minimal toys, no sporting gear.
1 piano
No pets
No basement
No garage

Once the youngest kid went to college she bought a huge house with 6 BRs, a conservatory, and a gorgeous garden.

[Anonymous]

What do you do when you invite friends over OP? Anything?

I can’t tell if you’re calibrated super laid back about piles of mess in 100% of your home, or what.

What’s your kitchen look like when the adults go to bed? Is there any counter or table space? Or is clutter everywhere all the time- on dressers, counters, shelving, tables, desks, laundry machine, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you do when you invite friends over OP? Anything?

I can’t tell if you’re calibrated super laid back about piles of mess in 100% of your home, or what.

What’s your kitchen look like when the adults go to bed? Is there any counter or table space? Or is clutter everywhere all the time- on dressers, counters, shelving, tables, desks, laundry machine, etc.

OP. We make our house presentable for guests. The kitchen is cleaned and wiped each night, bathrooms are sanitary, clutter is not everywhere all the time. If we found out people were coming over unexpectedly, we could do a 15 minute pick-up and the house would look fine. I swear I am not a total slob.

In general we split chores 50-50, and he likes to be recognized and patted on the head whenever he does something ... I probably don't give him his proper words of affirmation or something. For example he is better at vacuuming than I am but he cannot open his mail or clean a toilet to save his life. I do not lecture him repeatedly on the proper way to clean a toilet or the importance of opening mail, nor do I expect praise for doing these things. (OK, I wish he'd open his mail sometimes, but it is not worth a daily argument.)

The clutter also bothers me, but I have accepted it because an entire section of our small home had to be emptied due to the renovation. The stuff had to go somewhere. It's a temporary mess exacerbated by kids being home for two weeks. And yes we absolutely have too much stuff, but it's his stuff too!

Basically I am annoyed with his annoyance and his resultant behavior and I want nothing to do with him. Lord of the Manor indeed. Hmmmmph

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't mind clutter unless I am stressed and then the clutter makes me feel like I am suffocating and need it cleaned up. When my brain is chaotic and cluttered due to stess, I need my environment organized. When my brain is relaxed, I don't mind a more chaotic environment.

I think you need to get to the root of DHs stress. It seems like he needs some kind of support he isn't getting at home and it can be hard in a house of 4 people to stress reduce when the people around you don't share your stress management strategies.

Interesting take, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:House Rule - If it bugs you enough to feel the need to say something about it, it bugs you enough to clean something up.

If your DH is bothered, he should be in charge of picking a 15 minute chunk of time every evening for decluttering for the whole family. He has to do all the mental load of planning, getting everyone to participate, leading from the front, making it fun, and supervise, evaluating and adjusting. When is it? Who does what? What items become regular declutter items? Which areas of the house?

Very uncool to criticize you. You are not the master maid or house fairy.

It should be a joint effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't mind clutter unless I am stressed and then the clutter makes me feel like I am suffocating and need it cleaned up. When my brain is chaotic and cluttered due to stess, I need my environment organized. When my brain is relaxed, I don't mind a more chaotic environment.

I think you need to get to the root of DHs stress. It seems like he needs some kind of support he isn't getting at home and it can be hard in a house of 4 people to stress reduce when the people around you don't share your stress management strategies.

Interesting take, thank you.

The stress doesn't necessarily have a single root. Clutter is one root of it, directly. But clutter also makes it harder to do any task and deal with any stress.

I am like your DH and I'm not proud of it. But it's so frustrating that we can't have a nice house because other people won't pick up after themselves. And it's so hard to cook when the kitchen is cluttered. My DH and my kids expect me to do various things (cook, laundry, know where stuff is) yet at the same time they make it so much harder than it has to be. But I'm the bad guy for not putting up with it, I guess.

[Anonymous]

I agree that there is something else going on with your DH that is causing him to get stressed out.

What I do is make sure someone comes over our house at least once a week, which forces us to de-clutter! Can be a friend stopping by to pick up hand-me-downs, or a playdate, or inviting friends for dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His behavior is unkind and I think you need to address that directly. These are not appropriate ways to express his frustration with the clutter.

However, as the person in my marriage who is much more bothered by clutter/mess than my spouse, I can offer some insight into what might be going on in his head and ways you might be able to meet him halfway.

Now, in my house I do most of the cleaning and organizing, so I think it's different. But like your DH, I am very mentally impacted by lots of clutter and mess -- it's not just that it causes anxiety, it's that it can create a snowball of effects that really impact my mental wellness. Like lots of clutter can make it hard to find things I need, or that the kids need. It can make it harder to accomplish basic tasks (like clutter on kitchen counters makes it hard to cook, or clutter on the dining table adds a task to what has to be done before we eat dinner). When the house is cluttered, I find myself fielding lots of requests from my spouse and from kids about being unable to find things, and because I am the person who is more organized and therefore does a better job of keeping track of where I last saw things and where they might be. This is disruptive for me -- I'll have to pause one task to go help find an item, then by the time I turn back to my task, someone else can't find something. Clutter also increases the likelihood of "a big f**kup" like misplacing the gift we bought for a birthday party, a child being completely unable to find their ballet shoes before class, etc. It's just stress on stress.

For me, I can tolerate some controlled clutter up to a point, but we can't just... let it go. We have to be maintaining some sense of order. I'm big on certain surfaces being regularly cleared (kitchen counters, dining table, coffee table -- all places used by all family members and used regularly, and also places that tend to attract random items that people didn't feel like finding a better place for). Other clutter, in bedrooms especially, I can deal with much easier. Sometimes my DD's room is a total wreck, but I can walk away from that and say "we'll deal with it once the holidays are over" and it doesn't put me on edge. But piles of crap all over the dining table, especially if it was recently cleared off for last night's dinner and these piles appeared over a course of hours? No, I would like some help from the family in finding better places for those items, or at least organizing them into stacks or bins or something so it's not just a mess of random items.

I also ask for help from my family in being willing to purge things that are not being used for long periods of time. This is probably the biggest thing my DH has changed over the years to accommodate me, and I really appreciate it. It is his tendency to hold onto things even when they are broken or unusable, "just in case." I meet him halfway by allowing that if something is in good condition and he says he will use it again, we will find a way to store it even if I am skeptical that this will happen. I'm not trying to get him to get rid of all his stuff. But we have a rule in the house that broken or heavily worn items that have not been used within the last year, I can get rid of them without even asking. This pushes him to get stuff fixed if he really wants to keep it, or to use it. But we can't just have these little graveyards of broken consumer items all over the house because that is space we genuinely need for stuff we use, or as areas to play in or work in or prepare food, etc.

So while I do think you need to discuss with him HOW he expresses his frustration about the clutter, and he has to learn to deal with the stress/anxiety it causes in more productive ways, I also think that taking the position "whatever, families have clutter, it's fine and he needs to get used to it" is not going to have the desired result for you. He is acting out of a place of stress and anxiety and he knows that if you can reduce the clutter in your life, you could reduce the stress and anxiety. That is worth trying to meet him halfway on at least the biggest pressure points, whatever those are.

All of this. Clutter makes my life harder. It makes every task more difficult. It makes the children and my DH pester me more, asking me where things are, and doing things in the wrong places because the right places are too messy. I hate it so much, and I hate that nobody else cares or helps me. My work spaces become everyone else's dumping grounds and I feel totally disrespected.

Tell your DH that you understand it is stressing him out, and propose a step by step approach to reducing your possessions and developing storage solutions. One micro-zone at a time.

IME the only thing that works is getting rid of a lot of stuff.

I'm a clutter-y person and it was especially bad when we were living in a teeny apartment with two little kids, but I would never do things like that. You feel disrespected because you are disrespected. Your work spaces need to stay clear.

In our kitchen DH has his own spot to make coffee and nothing else goes there, and nobody would ever think to put junk on his desk. I guess it helps that I'm a SAHM so I know where all the stuff is so I haven't dealt with that, but I know that other women have dealt with their spouses asking them where things are and I have seen them share how they have stopped that dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you do when you invite friends over OP? Anything?

I can’t tell if you’re calibrated super laid back about piles of mess in 100% of your home, or what.

What’s your kitchen look like when the adults go to bed? Is there any counter or table space? Or is clutter everywhere all the time- on dressers, counters, shelving, tables, desks, laundry machine, etc.

OP. We make our house presentable for guests. The kitchen is cleaned and wiped each night, bathrooms are sanitary, clutter is not everywhere all the time. If we found out people were coming over unexpectedly, we could do a 15 minute pick-up and the house would look fine. I swear I am not a total slob.

In general we split chores 50-50, and he likes to be recognized and patted on the head whenever he does something ... I probably don't give him his proper words of affirmation or something. For example he is better at vacuuming than I am but he cannot open his mail or clean a toilet to save his life. I do not lecture him repeatedly on the proper way to clean a toilet or the importance of opening mail, nor do I expect praise for doing these things. (OK, I wish he'd open his mail sometimes, but it is not worth a daily argument.)

The clutter also bothers me, but I have accepted it because an entire section of our small home had to be emptied due to the renovation. The stuff had to go somewhere. It's a temporary mess exacerbated by kids being home for two weeks. And yes we absolutely have too much stuff, but it's his stuff too!

Basically I am annoyed with his annoyance and his resultant behavior and I want nothing to do with him. Lord of the Manor indeed. Hmmmmph

This was me, for a long time. It was awful. I wasn't like you and I really thought that things were my fault and he was right and I just needed to keep trying harder. This spilled into other aspects of our life too, like our sex life, and I felt extremely depressed because I was living life under a cloud of criticism. These became additional subjects of criticism. I spoke to a therapist told me to track my time, and I saw that I was spending almost no time on myself and getting no "credit" for tasks like cooking and getting the kids food, cleaning, taking kids to playdates, playing with the kids, changing diapers, taking them to their doctors appointments, dealing with the special needs of one of our kids, grocery shopping, car maintenance, and many other things. I realized that he was asking me to do the impossible, or at least what was impossible for me. And if DH needed that from his partner, he had to get a new partner. I explained this to him told him that the best thing for us both would be to get a divorce.

He did NOT like that idea and did a 180. He never again criticized how I washed the dishes, he never again complained that the house usually needed a good 30 minute-tidy before people could come over, and most importantly he finally relented and we moved to a place that was big enough to store our items (we went from 900 sq ft to 2000).

I do not recommend letting it get to this point. He has apologized and our relationship is good, but I'm not sure I'll ever get over some things that happened during that period of time. And I could have prevented this from standing up for myself earlier.

About stress: yes he was extremely stressed. He had a very demanding job. But he still has that very demanding job and is also able to respect and appreciate me.