Richard Montgomery's non-IB program - high performing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hello, I was wondering about Richard Montgomery's non-IB program, and the extent to which it is high performing. I wanted to get past demographic / wealth / income issues, and found these set of data: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/SAT-Performance.html

RM's AP data for non-FARMS student is quite on par and for some of the data point beats the various "W" schools. I was wondering, to what extent the AP data reflects the rest of the RM student population. Or are the IB students ALSO taking the AP tests, and thus the AP performance data reflects more of that small subset of students. -- Thank you.

Yes, almost every MCPS HS has high-performing students. They even offer many of the same classes. In fact, the same kid would do about the same at any of these schools.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I know that. But I'm focused on my non-high performing kid that could benefit from a positive academic peer cohort. That is what I was trying to disentangle and figure out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that. But I'm focused on my non-high performing kid that could benefit from a positive academic peer cohort. That is what I was trying to disentangle and figure out.

don't listen to the other PP. While it is true that all schools have some AP classes and some kids who take AP classes, the peer cohort size is not the same.

Some HS have more AP classes on offer than others because of the higher demand. So, those are the ones that have a larger high achieving peer cohort.

Some kids need to be surrounded by higher achieving peer cohort to pull them up, otherwise, they just end up languishing. The peer group has an outsized influence on teens.

My kids are at RM, so I'm not saying that this kind of high achieving peer cohort is only available at W schools. But it's not true that any MCPS HS can offer the same rigorous classes and high achieving peer cohort.

[Anonymous]

So my kid was a regular RMHS school kid. It's a great school, and she was friends with many of the IB kids, several matriculated into the IB program for 11th and 12th grade. She took two IB classes as well. I'm so proud my kids went/go there. I hate this whole "W" school thing! So many of her friends went to great colleges!

[Anonymous]

Thank you to both the previous posters. I appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

MCPS doesn't release much of testing info. A number of years ago, they used to release avg SAT scores for the school and IB At a Glance sheet had avg score for IB kids. Number of students for the entire school grade and IB program isn't too hard to find. YOu can do a back of the envelop calculation to see how non IB kids compare score. That's probably best you can get publicly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS doesn't release much of testing info. A number of years ago, they used to release avg SAT scores for the school and IB At a Glance sheet had avg score for IB kids. Number of students for the entire school grade and IB program isn't too hard to find. YOu can do a back of the envelop calculation to see how non IB kids compare score. That's probably best you can get publicly.

Forgot to add - I had done this calculation years ago (when SAT was 2400 based), and delta was significant - more than 600 pts if I recall correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hello, I was wondering about Richard Montgomery's non-IB program, and the extent to which it is high performing. I wanted to get past demographic / wealth / income issues, and found these set of data: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/SAT-Performance.html

RM's AP data for non-FARMS student is quite on par and for some of the data point beats the various "W" schools. I was wondering, to what extent the AP data reflects the rest of the RM student population. Or are the IB students ALSO taking the AP tests, and thus the AP performance data reflects more of that small subset of students. -- Thank you.

NP here. I teach at RM. The Magnet program is bringing ~100 kids per grade level in to the school, added to ~500 home school students (~600 total per grade level). There are ~25 home school students also in the magnet each year, however many advanced home school students choose not to apply to the magnet knowing that they still have the option to join the DP programme in 11th grade. ~25 additional students join the DP in 11th, but there are also many other capable students that choose not to because they prefer the flexibility of the AP program and have other time commitments (such as varsity athletics).

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/contentassets/791d9e3ecf514dffa7e5f8b8cffd2a27/5451_23_rmhs-profile.pdf
The school profile (for colleges) shows total AP and IB exams. In 11th and 12th grade some, but not all, IB students also take the AP exam corresponding to their IB exam. If you look at the # of test takers, IB + magnet students are approximately 50% of the AP test takers. You can also look at the course offerings and see that there are AP classes separate from IB classes. The AP classes with IB equivalents are home school students (e.g. AP World, AP Enviro). There is plenty of demand for them. Some AP classes don't have an IB equivalent (AP Statistics, AP Psychology) and some IB classes don't have and AP equivalent (IB Philosophy, IB Film) so both AP and IB students are together in the course. There is plenty of academic rigor available to students not in the IBDP.

[Anonymous]

Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time to explain all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that. But I'm focused on my non-high performing kid that could benefit from a positive academic peer cohort. That is what I was trying to disentangle and figure out.

There is a huge drop in average peer group if you take out IB students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that. But I'm focused on my non-high performing kid that could benefit from a positive academic peer cohort. That is what I was trying to disentangle and figure out.

There is a huge drop in average peer group if you take out IB students.

I see you didn't read the previous posts.

[Anonymous]

If you care about college outcomes at all, I would say the non-IB kids generally do not get into a top 20 college. There is a good bit of cross-IB/non-IB friendships that develop, mostly through sports or certain extracurricular (drama, for example), but otherwise a lot of the IB cohort stick together outside of school.

[Anonymous]

WJ is closer to RM in terms of everything than it is to the other Ws. If RM is trash without the magnet, WJ must be too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WJ is closer to RM in terms of everything than it is to the other Ws. If RM is trash without the magnet, WJ must be too.

The demographics of WJ are changing. Give it time. It will be similar to (the non-magnet) RM within 5 years. Unlikely that WJ remains a sought-after school a decade from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you care about college outcomes at all, I would say the non-IB kids generally do not get into a top 20 college. There is a good bit of cross-IB/non-IB friendships that develop, mostly through sports or certain extracurricular (drama, for example), but otherwise a lot of the IB cohort stick together outside of school.

Most kids, of any sort, anywhere, do not get into a "top 20" college. Or even apply.

If you want your child to get into a "top 20" college, your chances are better at a high-poverty school with less competition.