Special needs first grader spitting and being aggressive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a spitter in 1st-3rd grades. He really liked spitting on people to get reactions. The more you reacted, the more likely he'd target you - and it's hard to not react.

Substitutes had it the worst.

At lunch, we wouldn't let anyone sit right next to him for that and other reasons.

Mask....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I did request he doesn’t sit with him at lunch. My son doesn’t seem particularly bothered by the incidents like some of the others though so I think they are sitting him with the kid because he is easy going and deals with it better than other classmates. Would you just let it go and have the s hook handle it until it becomes a more serious issue for your child? Does this usually get better or worse? Anyone experience this. I personally know of about half the students in the class having some sort of one on one experience like this with him. What eventually happens to kids like this?

My easy going NT child is always the child who is seated next to and partnered with children with behavioral issues. Like your child he's not really bothered by the issues and it does not really impact his ability to learn. He learned a lot of empathy from those experiences and it's really made him a better person. These issues usually get better over time because more supports will be put in place and the children will mature. There was one classmate who hit him during a meltdown a few years ago. It had nothing to do with my child but he happened to be walking by as they were seated at the same table. That child is doing great now with no issues in class. That is one path.

Another path is that the child may be moved out of general education into a different program with more support but that takes time so it could be many months. IME parents are often pleading for these programs but districts are often reluctant to do it because it's expensive so it takes many levels of meetings to make this happen. A lot of these kids come back to gen ed after a few years.

Also, your child sounds like a great kid and your posts are really very empathetic. I think whatever you do will be done in a sensitive way because you seem like that kind of person. I'm sorry this is happening for your child and the other child and hope things get better.

This is a very reasonable and rational response. Thank you for your empathy and for teaching your child empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a spitter in 1st-3rd grades. He really liked spitting on people to get reactions. The more you reacted, the more likely he'd target you - and it's hard to not react.

Substitutes had it the worst.

At lunch, we wouldn't let anyone sit right next to him for that and other reasons.

Mask....

He wouldn't keep it on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I did request he doesn’t sit with him at lunch. My son doesn’t seem particularly bothered by the incidents like some of the others though so I think they are sitting him with the kid because he is easy going and deals with it better than other classmates. Would you just let it go and have the s hook handle it until it becomes a more serious issue for your child? Does this usually get better or worse? Anyone experience this. I personally know of about half the students in the class having some sort of one on one experience like this with him. What eventually happens to kids like this?

My easy going NT child is always the child who is seated next to and partnered with children with behavioral issues. Like your child he's not really bothered by the issues and it does not really impact his ability to learn. He learned a lot of empathy from those experiences and it's really made him a better person. These issues usually get better over time because more supports will be put in place and the children will mature. There was one classmate who hit him during a meltdown a few years ago. It had nothing to do with my child but he happened to be walking by as they were seated at the same table. That child is doing great now with no issues in class. That is one path.

Another path is that the child may be moved out of general education into a different program with more support but that takes time so it could be many months. IME parents are often pleading for these programs but districts are often reluctant to do it because it's expensive so it takes many levels of meetings to make this happen. A lot of these kids come back to gen ed after a few years.

Also, your child sounds like a great kid and your posts are really very empathetic. I think whatever you do will be done in a sensitive way because you seem like that kind of person. I'm sorry this is happening for your child and the other child and hope things get better.

This is a very reasonable and rational response. Thank you for your empathy and for teaching your child empathy.

I think it is great that some kids are not bothered by this behavior. But I think not being bothered by it is different than having empathy. I am the PP who requested the seat change for my daughter. My DD also has learning disabilities, including inattentive ADHD and anxiety, and sitting next to this kid stressed her out to the point that she was using her flash pass multiple times per day to leave the classroom. She understood that some of this student's behavior wasn't intentional, but it still upset her. Girls in particular need to be taught that it is okay to have boundaries and to speak up to feel safe -- it isn't unkind or lacking empathy to not want to be hit, spit at, touched, or have someone banging their head and screaming next to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I did request he doesn’t sit with him at lunch. My son doesn’t seem particularly bothered by the incidents like some of the others though so I think they are sitting him with the kid because he is easy going and deals with it better than other classmates. Would you just let it go and have the s hook handle it until it becomes a more serious issue for your child? Does this usually get better or worse? Anyone experience this. I personally know of about half the students in the class having some sort of one on one experience like this with him. What eventually happens to kids like this?

My easy going NT child is always the child who is seated next to and partnered with children with behavioral issues. Like your child he's not really bothered by the issues and it does not really impact his ability to learn. He learned a lot of empathy from those experiences and it's really made him a better person. These issues usually get better over time because more supports will be put in place and the children will mature. There was one classmate who hit him during a meltdown a few years ago. It had nothing to do with my child but he happened to be walking by as they were seated at the same table. That child is doing great now with no issues in class. That is one path.

Another path is that the child may be moved out of general education into a different program with more support but that takes time so it could be many months. IME parents are often pleading for these programs but districts are often reluctant to do it because it's expensive so it takes many levels of meetings to make this happen. A lot of these kids come back to gen ed after a few years.

Also, your child sounds like a great kid and your posts are really very empathetic. I think whatever you do will be done in a sensitive way because you seem like that kind of person. I'm sorry this is happening for your child and the other child and hope things get better.

This is a very reasonable and rational response. Thank you for your empathy and for teaching your child empathy.

I think it is great that some kids are not bothered by this behavior. But I think not being bothered by it is different than having empathy. I am the PP who requested the seat change for my daughter. My DD also has learning disabilities, including inattentive ADHD and anxiety, and sitting next to this kid stressed her out to the point that she was using her flash pass multiple times per day to leave the classroom. She understood that some of this student's behavior wasn't intentional, but it still upset her. Girls in particular need to be taught that it is okay to have boundaries and to speak up to feel safe -- it isn't unkind or lacking empathy to not want to be hit, spit at, touched, or have someone banging their head and screaming next to you.

No need to be defensive PP. No one thinks you're in the wrong for asking your child to be moved. OP said her own child was not really bothered so I think people were responding to that. If it is impacting your child of course you should ask for help.

The people who are saying their child was not bother probably don't mean their child was oblivious. I suspect it did bother those children on some level because how could it not, but they were able to tolerate it due to whatever.

[Anonymous]

I think we need to stop normalizing children without disabilities getting abused and hurt in school situations.
Just because someone has learning challenges or behavior difficulties does not mean that there should not be adequate and appropriate consequences. No Child should have to be afraid to go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we need to stop normalizing children without disabilities getting abused and hurt in school situations.
Just because someone has learning challenges or behavior difficulties does not mean that there should not be adequate and appropriate consequences. No Child should have to be afraid to go to school.

No one is normalizing kids getting hurt or abused. Normalizing living in a society with people with disabilities? Of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we need to stop normalizing children without disabilities getting abused and hurt in school situations.
Just because someone has learning challenges or behavior difficulties does not mean that there should not be adequate and appropriate consequences. No Child should have to be afraid to go to school.

No one is normalizing kids getting hurt or abused. Normalizing living in a society with people with disabilities? Of course.

Maybe it's not being normalized where you are at, but it is very much brushed off at a lot of schools. They say it builds character and will help children deal as adults with adversity. I don't think any kindergartner first grader or second grader needs to have to evacuate their classroom on a daily basis because a child with special needs is having a meltdown and throwing chairs. And that is not being hyperbolic It does happen. So much so that one of the teachers in the school has a cart filled with books and supplies that she just wheels down to the gymnasium whenever she needs to evacuate the room which has turned into a daily basis. That is normalizing it. Instead of fixing the problem, we're finding poor workarounds while all of the other children have to leave their classroom and resituate themselves down the hall. That is not okay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we need to stop normalizing children without disabilities getting abused and hurt in school situations.
Just because someone has learning challenges or behavior difficulties does not mean that there should not be adequate and appropriate consequences. No Child should have to be afraid to go to school.

No one is normalizing kids getting hurt or abused. Normalizing living in a society with people with disabilities? Of course.

Maybe it's not being normalized where you are at, but it is very much brushed off at a lot of schools. They say it builds character and will help children deal as adults with adversity. I don't think any kindergartner first grader or second grader needs to have to evacuate their classroom on a daily basis because a child with special needs is having a meltdown and throwing chairs. And that is not being hyperbolic It does happen. So much so that one of the teachers in the school has a cart filled with books and supplies that she just wheels down to the gymnasium whenever she needs to evacuate the room which has turned into a daily basis. That is normalizing it. Instead of fixing the problem, we're finding poor workarounds while all of the other children have to leave their classroom and resituate themselves down the hall. That is not okay

This example also doesn't sound like kids are getting hurt or abused. In fact, quite the opposite, the school is taking drastic steps to protect them. Seems like it would be easier to remove the child throwing the fit, but I don't know all of the details. What exactly would you like to have happen instead? At that young age, most families don't have diagnosis, support systems, knowledge, or medication for their child yet. Documenting and responding to these issues is the first step.

I can understand that you don't like it, but truly can't understand how you would change it? Are you proposing that any 5 year old who has a meltdown should be banned from school for life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we need to stop normalizing children without disabilities getting abused and hurt in school situations.
Just because someone has learning challenges or behavior difficulties does not mean that there should not be adequate and appropriate consequences. No Child should have to be afraid to go to school.

No one is normalizing kids getting hurt or abused. Normalizing living in a society with people with disabilities? Of course.

Maybe it's not being normalized where you are at, but it is very much brushed off at a lot of schools. They say it builds character and will help children deal as adults with adversity. I don't think any kindergartner first grader or second grader needs to have to evacuate their classroom on a daily basis because a child with special needs is having a meltdown and throwing chairs. And that is not being hyperbolic It does happen. So much so that one of the teachers in the school has a cart filled with books and supplies that she just wheels down to the gymnasium whenever she needs to evacuate the room which has turned into a daily basis. That is normalizing it. Instead of fixing the problem, we're finding poor workarounds while all of the other children have to leave their classroom and resituate themselves down the hall. That is not okay

This example also doesn't sound like kids are getting hurt or abused. In fact, quite the opposite, the school is taking drastic steps to protect them. Seems like it would be easier to remove the child throwing the fit, but I don't know all of the details. What exactly would you like to have happen instead? At that young age, most families don't have diagnosis, support systems, knowledge, or medication for their child yet. Documenting and responding to these issues is the first step.

I can understand that you don't like it, but truly can't understand how you would change it? Are you proposing that any 5 year old who has a meltdown should be banned from school for life?

This is the protocol at all schools. You can’t safely move a child in the middle of a meltdown. I don’t see how your child is hurt or abused. Inconvenienced, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we need to stop normalizing children without disabilities getting abused and hurt in school situations.
Just because someone has learning challenges or behavior difficulties does not mean that there should not be adequate and appropriate consequences. No Child should have to be afraid to go to school.

No one is normalizing kids getting hurt or abused. Normalizing living in a society with people with disabilities? Of course.

Maybe it's not being normalized where you are at, but it is very much brushed off at a lot of schools. They say it builds character and will help children deal as adults with adversity. I don't think any kindergartner first grader or second grader needs to have to evacuate their classroom on a daily basis because a child with special needs is having a meltdown and throwing chairs. And that is not being hyperbolic It does happen. So much so that one of the teachers in the school has a cart filled with books and supplies that she just wheels down to the gymnasium whenever she needs to evacuate the room which has turned into a daily basis. That is normalizing it. Instead of fixing the problem, we're finding poor workarounds while all of the other children have to leave their classroom and resituate themselves down the hall. That is not okay

This example also doesn't sound like kids are getting hurt or abused. In fact, quite the opposite, the school is taking drastic steps to protect them. Seems like it would be easier to remove the child throwing the fit, but I don't know all of the details. What exactly would you like to have happen instead? At that young age, most families don't have diagnosis, support systems, knowledge, or medication for their child yet. Documenting and responding to these issues is the first step.

I can understand that you don't like it, but truly can't understand how you would change it? Are you proposing that any 5 year old who has a meltdown should be banned from school for life?

This is the protocol at all schools. You can’t safely move a child in the middle of a meltdown. I don’t see how your child is hurt or abused. Inconvenienced, maybe.

One year my child's class had two children like this who were struggling. IME, I think having the kids move to another area works really well. My child never mentioned it until close to the end of the year except to say his friend wasn't having a good day and that teachers were trying to help him and that it happened sometimes with another child. FWIW the next year those kids were fine!

[Anonymous]

Not all neurotypical kids like having to pick up their work halfway through a class and move to a different classroom two to three times a day. Can you imagine being in the middle of a work task at your job and your coworker starts screaming so your boss makes you pack up your desk and move? I just think that you're not doing anyone favors by acting like this is normal and everyone should just be okay with it. 20 kids should not have to be uprooted every single day multiple times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all neurotypical kids like having to pick up their work halfway through a class and move to a different classroom two to three times a day. Can you imagine being in the middle of a work task at your job and your coworker starts screaming so your boss makes you pack up your desk and move? I just think that you're not doing anyone favors by acting like this is normal and everyone should just be okay with it. 20 kids should not have to be uprooted every single day multiple times.

This is usually in K and you need to calm way down. People with disabilities exist in public schools. If you feel this vehemently about it, try private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all neurotypical kids like having to pick up their work halfway through a class and move to a different classroom two to three times a day. Can you imagine being in the middle of a work task at your job and your coworker starts screaming so your boss makes you pack up your desk and move? I just think that you're not doing anyone favors by acting like this is normal and everyone should just be okay with it. 20 kids should not have to be uprooted every single day multiple times.

This is usually in K and you need to calm way down. People with disabilities exist in public schools. If you feel this vehemently about it, try private.

People minimizing and trying to normalize it is also a problem. No we are talking about first and second grade not just kindergarten.
There has to be a better way for everyone involved than disrupting an entire class. I don't have the answers but I don't think that is it.
It could be higher grades as well. I don't know as my children are not those ages yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all neurotypical kids like having to pick up their work halfway through a class and move to a different classroom two to three times a day. Can you imagine being in the middle of a work task at your job and your coworker starts screaming so your boss makes you pack up your desk and move? I just think that you're not doing anyone favors by acting like this is normal and everyone should just be okay with it. 20 kids should not have to be uprooted every single day multiple times.

Kids that age aren't in the middle of some herculean concentration task is going to be lost if they stand up and move. It's not at all a comparison to an adult work place. Because they are kids!! Do you think the kid having a meltdown enjoys that sensation of being so overwhelmed that they cannot function? This isn't about anyone's enjoyment. It's a basic fact of life, that you sometimes have to flex to accommodate other's needs. I don't see this as a hardship for any NT kid in any way.