Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.

[Anonymous]

Are you religious at all? What helped my shorter boys in Catholic school is, “you are as God made you”. I have no clue how long this will hold for them but it’s working so far in lower elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And a last piece of advice OP--are you sure your kid cares as much as you think he does? You say it hurts you to see it. He probably picks up on your feelings about it. You may want to examine who actually cares more. I don't say this as a criticism. There are definitely times at which I probably cared more about that stuff than my kids did.

I had this thought as well...OP you say he "wants desperately" and "longs to be part of" but has he actually articulated this to you or are you projecting this longing on to him? Or maybe he said once "I wish I could be with them" and it's spiraled in your mind? None of these things are bad (for lack of a better word) but it is useful to understand whether this issue is driven by your son or your projections because then you can address it appropriately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And a last piece of advice OP--are you sure your kid cares as much as you think he does? You say it hurts you to see it. He probably picks up on your feelings about it. You may want to examine who actually cares more. I don't say this as a criticism. There are definitely times at which I probably cared more about that stuff than my kids did.

I had this thought as well...OP you say he "wants desperately" and "longs to be part of" but has he actually articulated this to you or are you projecting this longing on to him? Or maybe he said once "I wish I could be with them" and it's spiraled in your mind? None of these things are bad (for lack of a better word) but it is useful to understand whether this issue is driven by your son or your projections because then you can address it appropriately.

OP here. No, it’s actually said many times that he wishes he could be like those boys and friends with those boys.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised that a rising third grader is aware of popularity. My rising 4th grader is certainly not, but maybe that's because my kids go to a big school - 4 classes in every grade.

You need to find him activities where he can find his special group of friends. Scouts, maybe? Some sort of STEM club like Lego robotics or something if he likes that sort of thing?

[Anonymous]

Encourage him to be funny. Everyone likes a funny person. Women love funny men.

[Anonymous]

You must be in UMC primarily white schools - our diverse school doesn't really have a "popular" group in each grade. There are multiple groups of different types of kids. I feel very fortunate that my kids don't have to deal with people like you and your children.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you’re already doing all the things a parent can reasonably do to help out a kid in this situation. It’s his challenge to deal with, not yours. Increase your ability to remain loving but objective when your child struggles with something. Remain sympathetic and listen, and offer suggestions if he asks for help. But that’s it. Don’t internalize his discomfort with his social standing. Focus on your own life and modeling for him how healthy friendships look. The only way growth comes is through challenges. It’s his life. He’ll figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.

After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.

There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.

Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.

And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.

Nope. As an elementary teacher this just isn’t correct. It usually ends up being the sporty boys (who are often older and/or physically more mature) are the popular boys. These boys alongside the witty boy who is the class clown. OP’s
son is perceptive.
If he enjoys swim team then keep him swimming but for school popularity it doesn’t transfer. More boys are playing basketball or soccer at school in pick up games so being able to play those can be helpful at recess.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.

While my son is a coordinated athlete, soccer is too rough for him.

Wtf. Then what sport does he do if soccer is too rough for him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you religious at all? What helped my shorter boys in Catholic school is, “you are as God made you”. I have no clue how long this will hold for them but it’s working so far in lower elementary school.

It won’t work in the real world, outside of catholic school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.

While my son is a coordinated athlete, soccer is too rough for him.

Too rough in what sense, OP? Is he afraid of contact or just goes flying when someone runs into him? All recess sports are tougher than their organized versions, but if he learns some soccer skills and how to make accurate passes, he should be able to avoid contact most of the time. The burly kids who love to drive toward the goal regardless of who is in their way will be happy to receive a pass from a teammate. Another idea is flag football, where he could work on his agility and playground ball skills without contact. Again, it’s not that he has to do sports, it’s just that team sports tend to give kids a lot of confidence and a built-in friend group. It’s so great for kids to have friends from different groups and schools, IMO.

I’ll add that in our neighborhood at least, academic ability is not considered a negative at all. Lots of the most popular athletes are also excellent students, though that probably will surprise some of the folks down the line who are forming opinions about kids based on their playground behavior in 3rd grade. Many of my kids’ friends who went to parties most weekends in HS were also top students, which I still find kind of surprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.

While my son is a coordinated athlete, soccer is too rough for him.

Wtf. Then what sport does he do if soccer is too rough for him?

Swimming, tennis, golf, sailing, and baseball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.

After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.

There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.

Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.

And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.

Nope. As an elementary teacher this just isn’t correct. It usually ends up being the sporty boys (who are often older and/or physically more mature) are the popular boys. These boys alongside the witty boy who is the class clown. OP’s
son is perceptive.
If he enjoys swim team then keep him swimming but for school popularity it doesn’t transfer. More boys are playing basketball or soccer at school in pick up games so being able to play those can be helpful at recess.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Perhaps they're popular in your mind. Or theirs. But most of the students in any given school just don't care that the sporty ones are "supposed" to be popular Also, it's funny that it's just always certain kinds of sports, and not others.

I've got high schoolers. I've been at this for some time. Every time a thread like this comes up on DCUM, and a bunch of posters agree with each other that certain sports=popular, I have to laugh. Perhaps you're all in a self-reinforcing social circle where you feel this is true, but you've got to accept that a lot of other families just don't see it that way. So if you've got kids who are suffering from a perception that they're not breaking into whatever group they wish to break into, you have to encourage them to seek out other friends, and socialize with new people. Don't fall into the flawed thinking that your child's little circle is a reflection of the wider world.


[/quote

Since when do "families" determine who is popular in high school. PP: I hate to break this to you, your kids weren't popular. And that's okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.

While my son is a coordinated athlete, soccer is too rough for him.

Too rough in what sense, OP? Is he afraid of contact or just goes flying when someone runs into him? All recess sports are tougher than their organized versions, but if he learns some soccer skills and how to make accurate passes, he should be able to avoid contact most of the time. The burly kids who love to drive toward the goal regardless of who is in their way will be happy to receive a pass from a teammate. Another idea is flag football, where he could work on his agility and playground ball skills without contact. Again, it’s not that he has to do sports, it’s just that team sports tend to give kids a lot of confidence and a built-in friend group. It’s so great for kids to have friends from different groups and schools, IMO.

I’ll add that in our neighborhood at least, academic ability is not considered a negative at all. Lots of the most popular athletes are also excellent students, though that probably will surprise some of the folks down the line who are forming opinions about kids based on their playground behavior in 3rd grade. Many of my kids’ friends who went to parties most weekends in HS were also top students, which I still find kind of surprising.

The contact and pushing. Soccer is very physical where we live - it just isn’t for DS right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP teacher that for ES boys, being sporty and outgoing is pretty much a guarantee of popularity. OP, is soccer one of the sports your son has tried? If he’s a decent athlete, his size won’t hold him back at all as a soccer player, and it is fun for kids to play at recess

Agree with others that he should focus on activities that he loves and that play to his strengths, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with working on learning to be good at a sport at the same time.

While my son is a coordinated athlete, soccer is too rough for him.

Wtf. Then what sport does he do if soccer is too rough for him?

Swimming, tennis, golf, sailing, and baseball.

+1. Soccer was always too physical for my DS too. He swam competitively, plays tennis and golf, and did gymnastics as well as track and field.

I have no clue wtf the PP is so surprised and limited.