One D.C. stop-sign camera brought in $1.3 million in tickets in 2 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got a ticket from the one at Kansas and Buchanan that was apparently super sensitive as well (https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/neighbors-question-district-stop-sign-camera-that-raised-nearly-1m-in-two-months/2575779/), but when I watched the video I'd definitely not come to a complete stop so I paid it. There's a video, so it's easy enough to watch and see if you broke the law; if you did, pay the fine, if not contest it so they can see that the machine is sending out unwarranted tickets.

How do you watch the video?

There's a link in the paper they send you.

[Anonymous]

They don’t do this to you in MD or VA. Just sayin’.

[Anonymous]

There’s lots of ways to make your license plates unreadable to cameras. Google it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nextdoor had a whole thing on the Fessenden traffic light. People who have made complete stops and counted to three (or higher) have still received tickets. Contest it. There were multiple complaints about that one on Nextdoor.

People on that Nextdoor thread alleged that but of course you also need to completely stop behind the stop bar which is the other thing most drivers don't do (besides not stopping).

Here is the thing - if you got a stop sign citation there is an on-line video! That you can share and prove you were improperly cited.

The outraged guy who started the Nextdoor thread actually had the decency to share his video and guess what - he coasted right through the stop sign! He didn't even get close to the spirit of a legal stop to say nothing of the actual letter of the law.

There is a guy on that thread who has now posted 2 30-40 second videos he shot at 44th and Fessenden and in neither video does even a single driver make a legal stop and only a couple of drivers even come close.

The guy over in Crestwood who is outraged he got 3 citations at 17th and Blagden and has been bloviating on the Crestwood listserve for months also shared all 3 of his video citations and guess what - he also didn't come close to a legal stop! He doesn't even claim in interviews that he actually made legal stops just that it is outrageous and unfair that the law is being strictly enforced.

Here are the 3 videos:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wTBMmn9jyBpnIIH2q5mi75UMuT11ast_/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NVt7GKwsF0A0T4-NlXsJBJ3LoLQHWGGA/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UAiPh8X6grg1dW4XOrcMNJe7ZvA_eAuU/view

Here's a video the woman who started an anti traffic camera screed about the 37th Street stop sign camera posted:

https://public.cite-web.com/citeweb3/PlayVideofile1.asp?vFile=/media/wdcrl/images/2021/08/dep_398986/20210805_090522_8245284352212.mp4

Did she really think slamming on the brakes and rolling through at 5MPH counted as a stop?

I'll bet no one will post a video of a traffic citation where the car actually comes to a stop.

[Anonymous]

What I would like to see an explanation for is what is the public safety interest in needing a car to stop 3 feet behind a line for exactly 4 seconds and if it’s 2 feet and/or 3 seconds one deserves a $100 fine.

This is to me what doesn’t make sense and I have yet to hear a defense of this that makes any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see an explanation for is what is the public safety interest in needing a car to stop 3 feet behind a line for exactly 4 seconds and if it’s 2 feet and/or 3 seconds one deserves a $100 fine.

This is to me what doesn’t make sense and I have yet to hear a defense of this that makes any sense.

That is not the standard/law.

Hearing examiners are telling people that because drivers are so stupid that they can't come to a stop behind the line so they are telling them to stop 3 feet behind the line because most drivers are instead sort of stopping 3 feet in front of the line and thinking that cuts it.

[Anonymous]

I am not sure what compels people to post just to be a-holes.

I would just posit two things. First, while you may it funny that people you perceive to be your enemies are being punished, predatory government behavior doesn’t confine itself to your narrow politics and eventually it will affect something important to you. As a result, everyone should have a vested interest in ensuring that the government doesn’t act abusively.

Second, as frustration with abusive government behavior grows it’s now becoming a political issue which may stir a counter-action that you may like even less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nextdoor had a whole thing on the Fessenden traffic light. People who have made complete stops and counted to three (or higher) have still received tickets. Contest it. There were multiple complaints about that one on Nextdoor.

Good to know! Unfortunately, I already paid it. I don't drive in that neighborhood very often - will likely just avoid that intersection.

Great! The more through traffic commuters that avoid this and stay on Wisconsin, the better the neighborhood gets! We should add more cameras like this on 37th!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see an explanation for is what is the public safety interest in needing a car to stop 3 feet behind a line for exactly 4 seconds and if it’s 2 feet and/or 3 seconds one deserves a $100 fine.

This is to me what doesn’t make sense and I have yet to hear a defense of this that makes any sense.

Hhahahah. I live in the neighborhood and blow through the stop sign all the time. The camera doesn't trigger unless you are over about 5 mph. I think they only bust 25 per day. That is almost NOTHING. Basically all the videos catch people going through at 10 mph+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure what compels people to post just to be a-holes.

I would just posit two things. First, while you may it funny that people you perceive to be your enemies are being punished, predatory government behavior doesn’t confine itself to your narrow politics and eventually it will affect something important to you. As a result, everyone should have a vested interest in ensuring that the government doesn’t act abusively.

Second, as frustration with abusive government behavior grows it’s now becoming a political issue which may stir a counter-action that you may like even less.

There's no real evidence that they government is abusive. There's some anecdotal claims but all the videos are of people breaking them law. Is expecting people to stop for stop signs now "abusive"? I don't even think these people are my "enemies," I'm a driver too, just one who knows to stop for stop signs and accepts a ticket if I don't do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see an explanation for is what is the public safety interest in needing a car to stop 3 feet behind a line for exactly 4 seconds and if it’s 2 feet and/or 3 seconds one deserves a $100 fine.

This is to me what doesn’t make sense and I have yet to hear a defense of this that makes any sense.

Hhahahah. I live in the neighborhood and blow through the stop sign all the time. The camera doesn't trigger unless you are over about 5 mph. I think they only bust 25 per day. That is almost NOTHING. Basically all the videos catch people going through at 10 mph+.

Even the most ardent supporter of this above agrees that it will catch people who do not perform a “complete stop”. They have even posted videos demonstrating this. So why are you lying? Seriously? What is the point and what do you think you are trying to accomplish? Do you believe that you are engaged in some sort of propaganda campaign or something? I just cannot understand what you think you’re doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see an explanation for is what is the public safety interest in needing a car to stop 3 feet behind a line for exactly 4 seconds and if it’s 2 feet and/or 3 seconds one deserves a $100 fine.

This is to me what doesn’t make sense and I have yet to hear a defense of this that makes any sense.

Hhahahah. I live in the neighborhood and blow through the stop sign all the time. The camera doesn't trigger unless you are over about 5 mph. I think they only bust 25 per day. That is almost NOTHING. Basically all the videos catch people going through at 10 mph+.

Even the most ardent supporter of this above agrees that it will catch people who do not perform a “complete stop”. They have even posted videos demonstrating this. So why are you lying? Seriously? What is the point and what do you think you are trying to accomplish? Do you believe that you are engaged in some sort of propaganda campaign or something? I just cannot understand what you think you’re doing.

DP. Why are you acting like coming to a complete stop (i.e. following the law) is too onerous for drivers to manage? Every person in those videos is breaking the law and a small fine is completely appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see an explanation for is what is the public safety interest in needing a car to stop 3 feet behind a line for exactly 4 seconds and if it’s 2 feet and/or 3 seconds one deserves a $100 fine.

This is to me what doesn’t make sense and I have yet to hear a defense of this that makes any sense.

Hhahahah. I live in the neighborhood and blow through the stop sign all the time. The camera doesn't trigger unless you are over about 5 mph. I think they only bust 25 per day. That is almost NOTHING. Basically all the videos catch people going through at 10 mph+.

Even the most ardent supporter of this above agrees that it will catch people who do not perform a “complete stop”. They have even posted videos demonstrating this. So why are you lying? Seriously? What is the point and what do you think you are trying to accomplish? Do you believe that you are engaged in some sort of propaganda campaign or something? I just cannot understand what you think you’re doing.

DP. Why are you acting like coming to a complete stop (i.e. following the law) is too onerous for drivers to manage? Every person in those videos is breaking the law and a small fine is completely appropriate.

The issue is quite clear and has been well articulated by many people that they have configured these things with such tight tolerances that it is not sufficient to just stop. A “complete stop” seems to be a specific thing that requires stopping many feet in advance of the sign and resting for a minimum of four seconds before proceeding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting my comment from WaPo, everything I say here is true:

"We live a few blocks away. I was ticketed by this camera for the first time a few months ago; for the 1.5 years prior I had no issues with the camera. For reference, this camera only tickets you as you drive south down 37th St and stop at the T-intersection of 37th & Whitehaven. This is only a three-way stop and people from the other two directions (north on 37th or west on Whitehaven) are not subject to monitoring by the camera.

The city changed the settings on the camera earlier this year to be insanely over-sensitive. The camera is at a sizable distance and an odd angle that you need to stop at least 3-4 feet before the line otherwise the camera will think you have impeded onto the line. You also need to do a full stop for at least 4 seconds - count it out to be sure you’re in compliance.

If you don’t take both of these measures, you will get a $100 ticket. I’d love for the WaPo to update this story to let us know how much of the $1.3M is paid by DC, VA, and MD residents. As you know, DC cannot compel VA or MD residents to pay their camera fines."

Hold on a minute here. If the camera catches me in DC and I live in MD I don’t have to pay the fine?? Will I ever be towed?

You do have to pay the fine. If you don't pay and stay out of DC, they will not cross jurisdictions to find you. But yes, you have to pay the fine; it's not an "optional ticket." And good luck if yo have an accident in DC and they discover you have thousands of dollars of outstanding traffic tickets. You could see jail time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to see an explanation for is what is the public safety interest in needing a car to stop 3 feet behind a line for exactly 4 seconds and if it’s 2 feet and/or 3 seconds one deserves a $100 fine.

This is to me what doesn’t make sense and I have yet to hear a defense of this that makes any sense.

Hhahahah. I live in the neighborhood and blow through the stop sign all the time. The camera doesn't trigger unless you are over about 5 mph. I think they only bust 25 per day. That is almost NOTHING. Basically all the videos catch people going through at 10 mph+.

Even the most ardent supporter of this above agrees that it will catch people who do not perform a “complete stop”. They have even posted videos demonstrating this. So why are you lying? Seriously? What is the point and what do you think you are trying to accomplish? Do you believe that you are engaged in some sort of propaganda campaign or something? I just cannot understand what you think you’re doing.

DP. Why are you acting like coming to a complete stop (i.e. following the law) is too onerous for drivers to manage? Every person in those videos is breaking the law and a small fine is completely appropriate.

The issue is quite clear and has been well articulated by many people that they have configured these things with such tight tolerances that it is not sufficient to just stop. A “complete stop” seems to be a specific thing that requires stopping many feet in advance of the sign and resting for a minimum of four seconds before proceeding.

Except it doesn't seem to be that. People have claimed that, but every piece of actual evidence (i.e. several videos from people upset about their tickets) doesn't support it in the least. They're all rolling stops. Meanwhile, I've driven through one of these cameras (one people complained was "too sensitive") twice a day for over a year and only got a ticket when I deserved it. The "many feet in front of the signs, 4 seconds" thing just seems to be a lie.

Obey the law and you won't get a ticket. If you break the law, accept your punishment and stop lying about it.