This Whole Ethnic Studies Ban in Arizona...

[Anonymous]

BTW--the bill bans classes designed for students of a particular ethnic group; it does not ban ethnic studies designed for all students to engage and learn about other cultures.

[Anonymous]

but who decides if it's designed for one particular ethnic group or whether it is designed for all ethnicities to study together? This is the dangerous nature of this legislation.

[Anonymous]

Many ethnic groups in America have Saturday academies for language and community events. My mom attended one as a dirt poor immigrant.

[Anonymous]

It seems pretty obvious that the ban is a thinly veiled attempt to prevent public schools in Arizona from teaching anything but the white man's version of American history. So much of the immigration furor is based on white America's fear that our white, protestant cultural identity is disappearing. Thus, it is necessary to stop immigration and indoctrinate non-white immigrants in white protestant culture. Look at how Texas is re-writing all the history books to emphasize the white, christian origins of the United States. All these efforts will eventually fail, however. By 2050, at the latest, white non-Latino Christians will be a minority in this country (they're already a minority in California). Our country is evolving, and we all better get used to it.

Hey did you notice I used the word "evolving"? That's another thing the right wingers hate - Evolution. (Glenn Beck rants about how progressiveism and evolution are the same thing.) Right wingers can't stand the notion that everything in the world is moving forward culturally as well as biologically. Norman Rockwell America is fading (I doubt that it ever really existed in the first place; at least the national aspiration to create a Norman Rockwellian American Dream is fading). However, science teaches us one very important law of nature - evolution is inevitable. It will happen, and our country can move forward with our help and guidance or without. But don;t believe for a second that you can stop it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious that the ban is a thinly veiled attempt to prevent public schools in Arizona from teaching anything but the white man's version of American history. So much of the immigration furor is based on white America's fear that our white, protestant cultural identity is disappearing. Thus, it is necessary to stop immigration and indoctrinate non-white immigrants in white protestant culture. Look at how Texas is re-writing all the history books to emphasize the white, christian origins of the United States. All these efforts will eventually fail, however. By 2050, at the latest, white non-Latino Christians will be a minority in this country (they're already a minority in California). Our country is evolving, and we all better get used to it.

Hey did you notice I used the word "evolving"? That's another thing the right wingers hate - Evolution. (Glenn Beck rants about how progressiveism and evolution are the same thing.) Right wingers can't stand the notion that everything in the world is moving forward culturally as well as biologically. Norman Rockwell America is fading (I doubt that it ever really existed in the first place; at least the national aspiration to create a Norman Rockwellian American Dream is fading). However, science teaches us one very important law of nature - evolution is inevitable. It will happen, and our country can move forward with our help and guidance or without. But don;t believe for a second that you can stop it.

Personally, I think immigrants should be required to assimilate into the majority culture, so have zero problem with this. Also, I do not think it is inevitable that "white non-Latino Christians will be a minority in this country." That is only the case if our policies don't change, and you see in Arizona people trying to change exactly those policies. It is hard to blame them, I might add -- looking at how ethnic minorities are often treated around the world, not least in our own history in this country, why would anyone *want* their own ethnic group to become a minority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did not say we do not get along; by and large I think trading partners and increased immigration (governed by law) is a good thing. I was referring to some double-standards in our relationship that la raza never seems to bring up. Every incident I cited (from a double standard on the border, to a double-standard on property, to a double standard on soccer game decorum) is a fact. That's what's warped.

As to the culture studies classes:

"HB 2281 bans schools from teaching classes that are designed for students of a particular ethnic group, promote resentment or advocate ethnic solidarity over treating pupils as individuals. The bill also bans classes that promote the overthrow of the U.S. government."

Gosh! How shocking that they explicitly don't wish the above taught to elementary students. What is America coming to??

Great. So once they cover the history of their geographic area adequately in the general curriculum, everything should be fine, right? BTW that last part is a load of crap. First, it's already illegal to promote the overthrow of the U.S. government, and second, they weren't doing it. This is like writing a bill that bans teaching evolution and adds a clause that outlaws sex with monkeys. The weak-minded think "hell, they're teaching our kids to have sex with monkeys! Well you're g-d right it's time for this bill!"

Gosh, are you weak-minded, too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious that the ban is a thinly veiled attempt to prevent public schools in Arizona from teaching anything but the white man's version of American history. So much of the immigration furor is based on white America's fear that our white, protestant cultural identity is disappearing. Thus, it is necessary to stop immigration and indoctrinate non-white immigrants in white protestant culture. Look at how Texas is re-writing all the history books to emphasize the white, christian origins of the United States. All these efforts will eventually fail, however. By 2050, at the latest, white non-Latino Christians will be a minority in this country (they're already a minority in California). Our country is evolving, and we all better get used to it.

Hey did you notice I used the word "evolving"? That's another thing the right wingers hate - Evolution. (Glenn Beck rants about how progressiveism and evolution are the same thing.) Right wingers can't stand the notion that everything in the world is moving forward culturally as well as biologically. Norman Rockwell America is fading (I doubt that it ever really existed in the first place; at least the national aspiration to create a Norman Rockwellian American Dream is fading). However, science teaches us one very important law of nature - evolution is inevitable. It will happen, and our country can move forward with our help and guidance or without. But don;t believe for a second that you can stop it.

Personally, I think immigrants should be required to assimilate into the majority culture, so have zero problem with this. Also, I do not think it is inevitable that "white non-Latino Christians will be a minority in this country." That is only the case if our policies don't change, and you see in Arizona people trying to change exactly those policies. It is hard to blame them, I might add -- looking at how ethnic minorities are often treated around the world, not least in our own history in this country, why would anyone *want* their own ethnic group to become a minority?

No, you don't understand. It's inevitable. Non-white people are having babies at a faster rate than white people. The demographics are inevitable, and immigration is only one contributor. As of 2010 the average baby born in the U.S. is non-white. This is a done deal unless you find a bunch of whites to emigrate here.

And as for assimilating the majority culture, our nation's culture is that of an immigrant population. By our nation's own heritage, this culture changes over time. The Christmas Tree didn't come over with the English. It came with Hessians and Germans. Dutch people brought Santa Claus. And now we have a tree in front of the White House. We do not have a national dish, unless it is hamburgers or maybe barbeque. We eat Italian, French, Mexican, Tex-Mex, Chinese, and just about everything else. Even the thanksgiving turkey came from the native americans and the pilgrims eating together.

On top of it, we don't even restrict our teaching to our majority culture. We teach European history because it is relevant to living in the modern world. I challenge anyone to say that the history of Mexico and the culture and politics of the native populations in the region is not relevant to the state of Arizona. We can pretend it's not. And you might forgive a state like South Carolina or Kentucky for not teaching about the Cherokee, since they were moved out a long time ago. But in Arizona, the people are right there in front of you. They are actually in the school system. Latino culture affects everyday life. It is pervasive.

Even the red and gold from the state flag comes from the banners carried by Coronado. If the founders of the state can acknowledge its history, why can't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems pretty obvious that the ban is a thinly veiled attempt to prevent public schools in Arizona from teaching anything but the white man's version of American history. So much of the immigration furor is based on white America's fear that our white, protestant cultural identity is disappearing. Thus, it is necessary to stop immigration and indoctrinate non-white immigrants in white protestant culture. Look at how Texas is re-writing all the history books to emphasize the white, christian origins of the United States. All these efforts will eventually fail, however. By 2050, at the latest, white non-Latino Christians will be a minority in this country (they're already a minority in California). Our country is evolving, and we all better get used to it.

Hey did you notice I used the word "evolving"? That's another thing the right wingers hate - Evolution. (Glenn Beck rants about how progressiveism and evolution are the same thing.) Right wingers can't stand the notion that everything in the world is moving forward culturally as well as biologically. Norman Rockwell America is fading (I doubt that it ever really existed in the first place; at least the national aspiration to create a Norman Rockwellian American Dream is fading). However, science teaches us one very important law of nature - evolution is inevitable. It will happen, and our country can move forward with our help and guidance or without. But don;t believe for a second that you can stop it.

Personally, I think immigrants should be required to assimilate into the majority culture, so have zero problem with this. Also, I do not think it is inevitable that "white non-Latino Christians will be a minority in this country." That is only the case if our policies don't change, and you see in Arizona people trying to change exactly those policies. It is hard to blame them, I might add -- looking at how ethnic minorities are often treated around the world, not least in our own history in this country, why would anyone *want* their own ethnic group to become a minority?

No, you don't understand. It's inevitable. Non-white people are having babies at a faster rate than white people. The demographics are inevitable, and immigration is only one contributor. As of 2010 the average baby born in the U.S. is non-white. This is a done deal unless you find a bunch of whites to emigrate here.

And as for assimilating the majority culture, our nation's culture is that of an immigrant population. By our nation's own heritage, this culture changes over time. The Christmas Tree didn't come over with the English. It came with Hessians and Germans. Dutch people brought Santa Claus. And now we have a tree in front of the White House. We do not have a national dish, unless it is hamburgers or maybe barbeque. We eat Italian, French, Mexican, Tex-Mex, Chinese, and just about everything else. Even the thanksgiving turkey came from the native americans and the pilgrims eating together.

On top of it, we don't even restrict our teaching to our majority culture. We teach European history because it is relevant to living in the modern world. I challenge anyone to say that the history of Mexico and the culture and politics of the native populations in the region is not relevant to the state of Arizona. We can pretend it's not. And you might forgive a state like South Carolina or Kentucky for not teaching about the Cherokee, since they were moved out a long time ago. But in Arizona, the people are right there in front of you. They are actually in the school system. Latino culture affects everyday life. It is pervasive.

Even the red and gold from the state flag comes from the banners carried by Coronado. If the founders of the state can acknowledge its history, why can't you?

My point is, there's no point arguing it. Our culture will evolve whether Arizona passes a ban or not. It's a useless gesture.

Every time a new ethnic group immigrated, there has been the same outcry. Real Americans hated the Germans, the Irish, the Italians, Asians. Heck, no one's has been more hated that the Africans and we brought them here by force! It's all the SOS.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine most immigrants come to this country hoping that the public schools will teach their kids how awful the country they've come to is. What a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I can't imagine most immigrants come to this country hoping that the public schools will teach their kids how awful the country they've come to is. What a joke.

That totally misrepresents latino studies. It is a fair characterization of one widely publicized statement from a particular activist who participated. It is the equivalent of invalidating all of women's studies because Mary Daly refused to let men into her class. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Daly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, you don't understand. It's inevitable. Non-white people are having babies at a faster rate than white people. The demographics are inevitable, and immigration is only one contributor. As of 2010 the average baby born in the U.S. is non-white. This is a done deal unless you find a bunch of whites to emigrate here.

This. And the Chinese will be the majority race among all people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Personally, I think immigrants should be required to assimilate into the majority culture, so have zero problem with this.

And as for assimilating the majority culture, our nation's culture is that of an immigrant population.
If the founders of the state can acknowledge its history, why can't you?

sorry, i cannot resist putting a spanner in the works. This is getting interesting and you are all going to hate me!
If there was a history of immigrants assimilating into the majority culture, you would be speaking cherokee! and to say that this is a nation of immigrants is racist. What about the americans who do not descend from immigrants. They cannot be part of it because they are not from immigrants
The founders? what did they find? Just a vast track of land that was so lovingly maintained by another people.
And those people did not play a part in the descision making at the time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Personally, I think immigrants should be required to assimilate into the majority culture, so have zero problem with this.

And as for assimilating the majority culture, our nation's culture is that of an immigrant population.
If the founders of the state can acknowledge its history, why can't you?

sorry, i cannot resist putting a spanner in the works. This is getting interesting and you are all going to hate me!
If there was a history of immigrants assimilating into the majority culture, you would be speaking cherokee! and to say that this is a nation of immigrants is racist. What about the americans who do not descend from immigrants. They cannot be part of it because they are not from immigrants
The founders? what did they find? Just a vast track of land that was so lovingly maintained by another people.
And those people did not play a part in the descision making at the time

I don't know how spanners work in your country, but here's how numbers work in ours.

I don't get your point. My point is that there is no majority culture because we are an immigrant culture. It is a fact that most of our nation's population descend from non-English, non Native American peoples.

[Anonymous]

We are also a nation with founding values, a vision, core documents and a belief that despite some of what that group of white men founders did wrong--they were ALSO the founders of the first democracy on the face of the earth since the pseudo democracies of Greece and Rome, and then its caretakers--as are we all today. Worth teaching appreciation, worth passing on--perhaps this is what binds a nation of immigrants, some appreciation for what they gave us, and some sense of wanting to uphold, valorize and pass it along to future generations. I am fine with culture studies etc. but save the Dolores Huerta rhetoric for non-public dollars and certainly require public education to affirm at least some traditions given to us by these founders, and not only the traditions of each little subsequent mini-group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are also a nation with founding values, a vision, core documents and a belief that despite some of what that group of white men founders did wrong--they were ALSO the founders of the first democracy on the face of the earth since the pseudo democracies of Greece and Rome, and then its caretakers--as are we all today. Worth teaching appreciation, worth passing on--.

And not the first nation to give women the vote, but one that lagged behind the civilized world...
Colonialist land grabbers, and the red man can shine with his absense
1/3 of the nation is african american, but the schools do not teach african history. Just american history and its ideals, and a little about Europe.