What is the Left's Problem with Ukraine (Well, Tucker Carlson's too.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

It is interesting that the conservatives openly praise Putin and want to do away with nato. Yet OP someone how thinks this is the left? Sure.

+1
And cites Reddit like that’s remotely real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

Nobody in the mainstream GOP supports Putin, even Tucker Carlson. There are some in the mainstream right who want to be cautious about avoiding WW3 and not provoke Putin (not to be mistaken with appeasement) but most of the skepticism over supporting Ukraine evaporated very soon after it became clear that Russia was committing war crimes against Ukrainian civilians. I’ve seen some on the fringe right who are cheering for Russia because they hate the modern “degenerate” West and want to burn the whole thing down, foolishly thinking their position would somehow improve if America collapsed and we had a world order led by Russia and China. This is similar to the fringe left who are still thinking in antiquated anti imperialist terms and unable to see the lesser of two evils.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

It is interesting that the conservatives openly praise Putin and want to do away with nato. Yet OP someone how thinks this is the left? Sure.

+1
And cites Reddit like that’s remotely real life.

Well if you want to know what far-left people are thinking…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

It is interesting that the conservatives openly praise Putin and want to do away with nato. Yet OP someone how thinks this is the left? Sure.

+1
And cites Reddit like that’s remotely real life.

Well if you want to know what far-left people are thinking…

Then why don't you ask them on Reddit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...this is news to me. I thought Tucker was by himself. Most liberals I know are against the military industrial complex but have been keeping their mouth shut because they now see the importance. I myself am left leaning but definitely believe in a very strong defense so I've been walking around saying I told you so to both sides (yes, I've been in swimming schadenfreude since November 2020).

There’s liberals and then there’s leftists/tankies/anarchist.

Oh the nuts. You let me know when they wield some real political power (for example drive the selection of a presidential candidate) and then I'll be concerned.

[Anonymous]

NATO is a mutual defense alliance. If any NATO ally supplies Ukraine in a way Putin decides to spin as attack, and he counters (and he will), we will be in a world war by definition because every NATO member is in it immediately.

It’s a major problem that the entire world is in thrall to this guy, who deserves speedy assassination by his own troops, but this is not a view created by being a tankie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NATO is a mutual defense alliance. If any NATO ally supplies Ukraine in a way Putin decides to spin as attack, and he counters (and he will), we will be in a world war by definition because every NATO member is in it immediately.

It’s a major problem that the entire world is in thrall to this guy, who deserves speedy assassination by his own troops, but this is not a view created by being a tankie.

At this point if Putin ordered his “military” to attack nato it would be suicidal for the Russians. The Russians are getting their a$$ kicked in by 3rd world military. NATO would totally destroy the Russian military within two weeks. The Russians military leaders know this and Putin knows this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

Nobody in the mainstream GOP supports Putin, even Tucker Carlson. There are some in the mainstream right who want to be cautious about avoiding WW3 and not provoke Putin (not to be mistaken with appeasement) but most of the skepticism over supporting Ukraine evaporated very soon after it became clear that Russia was committing war crimes against Ukrainian civilians. I’ve seen some on the fringe right who are cheering for Russia because they hate the modern “degenerate” West and want to burn the whole thing down, foolishly thinking their position would somehow improve if America collapsed and we had a world order led by Russia and China. This is similar to the fringe left who are still thinking in antiquated anti imperialist terms and unable to see the lesser of two evils.

Bull$hit. GOP 100% supports and wants to appease Putin. Fox News is Russian state media outlet. Just stop with this BS. It is not true. The left is appalled by Putin while you on the right cheer his war crimes. The mainstream right Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Rand Paul, etc and their state media Fox News are firmly in Putin’s camp. They want the US government blown up and replaced with something similar to what Russia has now. Keep spreading Russia propaganda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

Nobody in the mainstream GOP supports Putin, even Tucker Carlson. There are some in the mainstream right who want to be cautious about avoiding WW3 and not provoke Putin (not to be mistaken with appeasement) but most of the skepticism over supporting Ukraine evaporated very soon after it became clear that Russia was committing war crimes against Ukrainian civilians. I’ve seen some on the fringe right who are cheering for Russia because they hate the modern “degenerate” West and want to burn the whole thing down, foolishly thinking their position would somehow improve if America collapsed and we had a world order led by Russia and China. This is similar to the fringe left who are still thinking in antiquated anti imperialist terms and unable to see the lesser of two evils.

Bull$hit. GOP 100% supports and wants to appease Putin. Fox News is Russian state media outlet. Just stop with this BS. It is not true. The left is appalled by Putin while you on the right cheer his war crimes. The mainstream right Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Rand Paul, etc and their state media Fox News are firmly in Putin’s camp. They want the US government blown up and replaced with something similar to what Russia has now. Keep spreading Russia propaganda.

What about Lindsey Graham who called for Putin’s assassination? I think you’re completely off the mark. Anyone can see that Putin is a modern day Hitler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

It is interesting that the conservatives openly praise Putin and want to do away with nato. Yet OP someone how thinks this is the left? Sure.

+1
And cites Reddit like that’s remotely real life.

Well if you want to know what far-left people are thinking…

Then why don't you ask them on Reddit?

I did.

[Anonymous]

The DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) tweeted out about being against NATO at the start of all this. I live in Portland and posted to some OPs a few times here asking about "antifa." We've got extremists on the left that are very illiberal, and often align with Trump's voters on things (attacking the press, supporting gun rights, denigrating Western countries). I actually voted for Bernie in our 2016 primary, but he is a DSA member and I wasn't very clued in to all of this then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

Nobody in the mainstream GOP supports Putin, even Tucker Carlson. There are some in the mainstream right who want to be cautious about avoiding WW3 and not provoke Putin (not to be mistaken with appeasement) but most of the skepticism over supporting Ukraine evaporated very soon after it became clear that Russia was committing war crimes against Ukrainian civilians. I’ve seen some on the fringe right who are cheering for Russia because they hate the modern “degenerate” West and want to burn the whole thing down, foolishly thinking their position would somehow improve if America collapsed and we had a world order led by Russia and China. This is similar to the fringe left who are still thinking in antiquated anti imperialist terms and unable to see the lesser of two evils.

Bull$hit. GOP 100% supports and wants to appease Putin. Fox News is Russian state media outlet. Just stop with this BS. It is not true. The left is appalled by Putin while you on the right cheer his war crimes. The mainstream right Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Rand Paul, etc and their state media Fox News are firmly in Putin’s camp. They want the US government blown up and replaced with something similar to what Russia has now. Keep spreading Russia propaganda.

What about Lindsey Graham who called for Putin’s assassination? I think you’re completely off the mark. Anyone can see that Putin is a modern day Hitler.

Lindsey changes his opinions in whatever direction the wind blows on a given day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) tweeted out about being against NATO at the start of all this. I live in Portland and posted to some OPs a few times here asking about "antifa." We've got extremists on the left that are very illiberal, and often align with Trump's voters on things (attacking the press, supporting gun rights, denigrating Western countries). I actually voted for Bernie in our 2016 primary, but he is a DSA member and I wasn't very clued in to all of this then.

As stated above, it's either hippy dippy "give peace a chance" idealists who think they can reason with a brutal murderer like Putin, or far left tankies who are cheering on the reconstitution of the Soviet Union.

Either way, while they are loud, it's only a single-digit percentage of America and not a mainstream belief.

[Anonymous]

[
As stated above, it's either hippy dippy "give peace a chance" idealists who think they can reason with a brutal murderer like Putin, or far left tankies who are cheering on the reconstitution of the Soviet Union.

Either way, while they are loud, it's only a single-digit percentage of America and not a mainstream belief.]

Sorry I Donn't konw how to do that blue quote thing. But to the person above, read the "Babel" Atlantic article. Extremists maybe be small in number but they are the loud ones influencing media, institutions and politicians. We have police abolitionists and those adjacent to them in office and running for office on the West Coast for example. People aren't very savvy about all this and they get votes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

Russia obviously funds and manipulates on the left as well as the right. Just look at The Nation.