What is the Left's Problem with Ukraine (Well, Tucker Carlson's too.)

[Anonymous]

I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

[jsteele]

What you are describing is a part of the progressive left, but not completely representative. There are others who support Ukraine. I saw a very succinct explanation of the thinking of those whom you describe: all problems are caused by imperialism and only the US can be imperialistic. That really is their thinking. We have posters here who are in complete agreement with those that you describe.

I have no issue with their critiques of the US, but I wish that they would apply the same thinking to Russia.

[Anonymous]

From where I've seen, much of the anti-Ukraine-interventionism espoused by terminally online leftists comes from a place of extreme cynicism about American foreign policy and, by extension, a rejection of the projection of power.

Tucker's problems with Ukraine come from a different place, obviously.

[Anonymous]

...this is news to me. I thought Tucker was by himself. Most liberals I know are against the military industrial complex but have been keeping their mouth shut because they now see the importance. I myself am left leaning but definitely believe in a very strong defense so I've been walking around saying I told you so to both sides (yes, I've been in swimming schadenfreude since November 2020).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...this is news to me. I thought Tucker was by himself. Most liberals I know are against the military industrial complex but have been keeping their mouth shut because they now see the importance. I myself am left leaning but definitely believe in a very strong defense so I've been walking around saying I told you so to both sides (yes, I've been in swimming schadenfreude since November 2020).

There’s liberals and then there’s leftists/tankies/anarchist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

I only hear this from republicans. This is straight up Fox News, Trump, Mitch McConnell, etc. talk. Maybe you are confused?

[Anonymous]

The people against the military industrial complex are simultaneously overestimating the prowess of the US military and underestimating the evils and aggressive intentions of other major powers like Russia/China. Their mindset is stuck in 2001 when the only major threat to the West came from men living in caves in Afghanistan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

I only hear this from republicans. This is straight up Fox News, Trump, Mitch McConnell, etc. talk. Maybe you are confused?

Go on Reddit to leftist subs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

I only hear this from republicans. This is straight up Fox News, Trump, Mitch McConnell, etc. talk. Maybe you are confused?

This would be the "horseshoe" effect where extreme left and right come together.

[Anonymous]

I don't think any of the above are really that strongly coming from the Dem mainstream and these aren't really being heard much at all.

In the few instances where that kind of talk has come from the left, I tend to think it's been a mix of clueless but idealistic progressive "give peace a chance" folks who think diplomacy or appeasement would work (hint: history says otherwise) along with bad-faith arguments from far-left Tankies who think the world would be better under a reconstituted USSR (absolutely nuts).

[Anonymous]

OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

I only hear this from republicans. This is straight up Fox News, Trump, Mitch McConnell, etc. talk. Maybe you are confused?

Go on Reddit to leftist subs.

I do it’s all republicans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

What bothers you the most here and what do you think the Left should be doing at this point? Are you against diplomatic solutions? What road do we have in this war? Your only argument here is moral clarity and that the only way to be "with Ukraine" is continuing this war. What would constitute winning or losing this war for Ukraine in your mind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get my news and information from many sources, but as a progressive I am infuriated by what I read and hear in the "alternative" left press, blogs and Twittersphere. To here then tell it, we cannot arm Ukraine and provide them with a means of self defense because: 1) that supports U.S. imperialism and the military-industrial complex; 2) the U.S. and NATO precipitated this war by not respecting Russia's, i.e. Putin's "legitimate security concerns; 3) Ukraine is a state full of Nazis and we cannot arm Nazis; and 4) that arming Ukraine will only prolong the conflict and lead to countless needless civilian deaths. They also call for a "diplomatic" solutions. But what is that solution? Added to this is the complete lack of attention paid to what the East European and Ukrainian left are saying: stop westplaining and give us what we need to fight Russian imperialism. This is a Spanish Civil War moment. There is moral clarity in Ukraine's fight for freedom. And either the progressive left is with Ukraine and its struggle to survive or it is a Putin accomplice. Putin has clearly outlined in an RIA-Novosti piece wjhat he intends to do in those areas of Ukraine he can occupy: crush Ukrainian culture and nationality; kill and/or deport those he sees a Nazis (basically the whole of the Ukrainian population.

I only hear this from republicans. This is straight up Fox News, Trump, Mitch McConnell, etc. talk. Maybe you are confused?

Go on Reddit to leftist subs.

Reddit is all trolls. Nobody there is actually what they claim to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is generally the GOP who wants to support Putin against Ukraine. It is generally the Center/Left in the US which has brought NATO and the rest of the world together to stand up to Russia.

Yes, there are fringes on the left who align with the right, but it isn't very many people. It is really the GOP that you should be concerned about.

It is interesting that the conservatives openly praise Putin and want to do away with nato. Yet OP someone how thinks this is the left? Sure.