Conservatives, are you optimistic about the future of the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's been plenty of studies showing conservatives are happier than liberals. The progressive response is to usually sneer that conservatives are happier because they are content to be ignorant and ignore the suffering and pains of others. When you look at the actual data for why conservatives are happier it's because they have stronger networks of family and friends, including being part of faith organizations or living in smaller town settings where people look after each other.

I do agree the progressive mindset is trapped by its blind belief in the proper inevitability of the right side of history, and when it fails to happen, they get frustrated and unhappy. It's a classic metaphysical concept studied in political theory and one that has dominated the left in its various guises and results in an environment where things are never, ever good enough and there always needs to be a new battle to be fought. We do see this with wokery. Despite the staggering improvement in the wellbeing, material and political, of African Americans since the 1950s, progressives still go around acting as if nothing has changed since, well, 1860.

I suppose the conservative mindset is more realistic.

When we see the rise of authoritarianism both at home and abroad, and 35% of the country is happy about it, then we know there is a lot of ignorance.

PEW research studies also consistently show that Republicans are better informed than Democrats. So if you are unhappy about ignorance, look within.

[Anonymous]

Liberals are eternal idealists and are inevitably disappointed by the world as it doubles down on its mistakes.

Authoritarian/conservative types are very jaded and laugh at those who naively got their hopes up. They've already accepted that the world is nasty, brutish, and corrupt so you may as well look out for yourself. Because they accept this reality, they can get to place of peace and happiness easier in their personal lives (relative to liberals).

Liberals see all the awfulness in the world and feel disappointment. Authoritarian/conservative types see the same awfulness and just accept that history is repeating itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP doesn't seem to have studied any history. He/she also almost certainly has not read anything Jordan Peterson has written beyond quotes in news articles or soundbites in short videos.

Anyway, my recommendation for the OP is to find a place with the type of government and social structure that he/she thinks is more conducive to a propsperous/healthy/optimistic future, and go experience it for 3 to 6 months.

Perspective is a wonderful thing.

I have read Jordan Peterson with an open mind, and Jung as well. I think JP's self-help ideas can work only to the extent your surroundings are under your control. As an individual, I do take a lot of personal steps outlined in 12 rules, but my personal betterment efforts stop where the lack of cooperation of others begins. And I don't buy his emphasis on leaning on religion.

It doesn't matter where I live and it's not like everyone gets to pick and choose what government they live under. We all share the same dying planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's been plenty of studies showing conservatives are happier than liberals. The progressive response is to usually sneer that conservatives are happier because they are content to be ignorant and ignore the suffering and pains of others. When you look at the actual data for why conservatives are happier it's because they have stronger networks of family and friends, including being part of faith organizations or living in smaller town settings where people look after each other.

I do agree the progressive mindset is trapped by its blind belief in the proper inevitability of the right side of history, and when it fails to happen, they get frustrated and unhappy. It's a classic metaphysical concept studied in political theory and one that has dominated the left in its various guises and results in an environment where things are never, ever good enough and there always needs to be a new battle to be fought. We do see this with wokery. Despite the staggering improvement in the wellbeing, material and political, of African Americans since the 1950s, progressives still go around acting as if nothing has changed since, well, 1860.

I suppose the conservative mindset is more realistic.

First of all, my eyes/ears grate at the world "liberal." I'm a leftist. I hate liberals almost as much as conservatives do.
That being said, I don't disagree that conservatives should be happier than liberals.
One counterpoint is that studies in human happiness repeatedly show that Nordic countries are happier than the United States by every metric. Now, I'm not here to debate the Nordic model (yes I know they aren't all the same, yes I know they aren't "socialist") but the fact is that there is data that shows that other countries with different economic systems show more happiness. Of course, former Soviet countries show the least amount of happiness, and some of the happier (relatively speaking) countries are dirt poor countries in Africa. But all in all, the US is kind of meh compared to other developed countries in terms of personal satisfaction with life.

So, that's a counterpoint grappling with the idea that I might assume, that conservatives should be happier with the way things are going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a progressive and have to say that I can tell you’re simply an unhappy, angry person. It’s not your politics, it’s you. You like to hear yourself talk and are probably a very smug bore. Don’t lump all progressives into being as miserable as you. Seek therapy.

Well you seem like quite the pleasant person yourself.

Actually, if I talked like this all the time, then sure, I'd be a smug bore, but you don't know me, and when I'm generally surrounded by family and friends we talk about music, sports, food, fitness, kids/nieces/nephews/dogs, and movies, and as I said, I'm day-to-day, an all around chill person. But when it comes to politics - yeah, this is how I look at the world, and many of my friends (in Takoma Park/Silver Spring) feel the same way. "Don't Look Up" quite accurately reflects the way we see the world going.

So I don't know what the point of this response is other than just to be typically DCUM catty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just some advice, OP.

You need a change of scenery. You need to get out of the DC area and spend some time away from big cities. And, stop feeding your paranoia.

Yeah - inflation is an issue and international relations are on a "down swing." The virus is here to stay. Crime is up in big cities. Times are tough.

As a conservative, living in a rural area, I am optimistic. I am also old enough to have seen our nation, and the world, go through a lot of crap.

Things are not as bad as you seem to think.

So there ya go folks! The reason why conservatives don’t care is because they have removed themselves from civilization and think that they are an island. The reason they are conservative in the first place is because they don’t see the connection between the masses and their own isolated world. Well, what a surprise it will be when even their rural christian white people communities collapse under the weight of climate change. Just give it enough time and they too will have nowhere left to hide. Deep down they know this, hence the recent capitalist fixation on space travel lol.

See, when you believe in fantasies, you don't make good decisions. Claiming that their community will "collapse under the weight of climate change" is not a prediction based in reality. Although climate change is happening, it does not predict collapse for trhe vast majority of communities. When you make radical and unlikely claims, people stop listening to you.

[Anonymous]

Yes, this general idea has been studied and confirms what you are feeling. Conservatives are much more optimistic about our country while leftists are much more pessimistic. In fact on topics that can be measured, both sides, and especially leftists, feelings about these topics are not based on reality and facts. For example, a high number of leftists agree with a statement along the lines of “the USA is among the worst countries in the world for LBGT rights” when this claim is pretty clearly false. I will try to post a link to the article later, but it’s paywalled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, this general idea has been studied and confirms what you are feeling. Conservatives are much more optimistic about our country while leftists are much more pessimistic. In fact on topics that can be measured, both sides, and especially leftists, feelings about these topics are not based on reality and facts. For example, a high number of leftists agree with a statement along the lines of “the USA is among the worst countries in the world for LBGT rights” when this claim is pretty clearly false. I will try to post a link to the article later, but it’s paywalled.

I'm the leftist OP, and no, I actually don't believe that. I do believe in nuance, and the US has done a number of decent things over the last 20-30 years, LGBTQ rights among the best of them. I feel similarly about race, gender, and immigration. There's a lot to be desired of course, but having lived in other countries, racism, sexism, and anti-immigrant feeling is much worse in many other places. So, credit where it's due for sure.

At the same time though, I see identity politics as a new vehicle for corporations to pretend to be woke and feel good about themselves. Pay workers more? Allow unions? No, but we've got a rainbow flag in the C-Suite!

Once again, the difference between a leftist (me) and liberals (the Democrats).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's been plenty of studies showing conservatives are happier than liberals. The progressive response is to usually sneer that conservatives are happier because they are content to be ignorant and ignore the suffering and pains of others. When you look at the actual data for why conservatives are happier it's because they have stronger networks of family and friends, including being part of faith organizations or living in smaller town settings where people look after each other.

I do agree the progressive mindset is trapped by its blind belief in the proper inevitability of the right side of history, and when it fails to happen, they get frustrated and unhappy. It's a classic metaphysical concept studied in political theory and one that has dominated the left in its various guises and results in an environment where things are never, ever good enough and there always needs to be a new battle to be fought. We do see this with wokery. Despite the staggering improvement in the wellbeing, material and political, of African Americans since the 1950s, progressives still go around acting as if nothing has changed since, well, 1860.

I suppose the conservative mindset is more realistic.

First of all, my eyes/ears grate at the world "liberal." I'm a leftist. I hate liberals almost as much as conservatives do.
That being said, I don't disagree that conservatives should be happier than liberals.
One counterpoint is that studies in human happiness repeatedly show that Nordic countries are happier than the United States by every metric. Now, I'm not here to debate the Nordic model (yes I know they aren't all the same, yes I know they aren't "socialist") but the fact is that there is data that shows that other countries with different economic systems show more happiness. Of course, former Soviet countries show the least amount of happiness, and some of the happier (relatively speaking) countries are dirt poor countries in Africa. But all in all, the US is kind of meh compared to other developed countries in terms of personal satisfaction with life.

So, that's a counterpoint grappling with the idea that I might assume, that conservatives should be happier with the way things are going.

NP. Wapo (I think, maybe it was another newspaper) had an article some months ago that one of the reasons Nordics are happier is that they have different (comparatively lower) expectations in life, that from an early age they are inculcated with the belief that they as individuals are not individually special. Maybe change your expectations about what you can and can’t control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's been plenty of studies showing conservatives are happier than liberals. The progressive response is to usually sneer that conservatives are happier because they are content to be ignorant and ignore the suffering and pains of others. When you look at the actual data for why conservatives are happier it's because they have stronger networks of family and friends, including being part of faith organizations or living in smaller town settings where people look after each other.

I do agree the progressive mindset is trapped by its blind belief in the proper inevitability of the right side of history, and when it fails to happen, they get frustrated and unhappy. It's a classic metaphysical concept studied in political theory and one that has dominated the left in its various guises and results in an environment where things are never, ever good enough and there always needs to be a new battle to be fought. We do see this with wokery. Despite the staggering improvement in the wellbeing, material and political, of African Americans since the 1950s, progressives still go around acting as if nothing has changed since, well, 1860.

I suppose the conservative mindset is more realistic.

First of all, my eyes/ears grate at the world "liberal." I'm a leftist. I hate liberals almost as much as conservatives do.
That being said, I don't disagree that conservatives should be happier than liberals.
One counterpoint is that studies in human happiness repeatedly show that Nordic countries are happier than the United States by every metric. Now, I'm not here to debate the Nordic model (yes I know they aren't all the same, yes I know they aren't "socialist") but the fact is that there is data that shows that other countries with different economic systems show more happiness. Of course, former Soviet countries show the least amount of happiness, and some of the happier (relatively speaking) countries are dirt poor countries in Africa. But all in all, the US is kind of meh compared to other developed countries in terms of personal satisfaction with life.

So, that's a counterpoint grappling with the idea that I might assume, that conservatives should be happier with the way things are going.

NP. Wapo (I think, maybe it was another newspaper) had an article some months ago that one of the reasons Nordics are happier is that they have different (comparatively lower) expectations in life, that from an early age they are inculcated with the belief that they as individuals are not individually special. Maybe change your expectations about what you can and can’t control.

Fair point.

Interestingly, I guess the same could be said about developing countries that have relative levels of happiness. If expectations are lower, or if you don't have a sense of missing out on something, then maybe you're happier. This checks out with the studies of social media causing misery among youth as well.

But this also bolsters my argument that the so-called "American Dream" creates misery. It is an objective FACT that achieving the American Dream is not the same as it was 100 years ago or 50 years ago or even 20 years ago. American corporatism is not a meritocracy; the people who benefit from the good life do not do so from an honest day's work, they do so from investing pre-existing financial capital. Our system rewards irresponsible speculation and dishonesty, not actual value production. This is where Marx was right. Add to this the toxic positivity that infected us '90s kids who were told we could be anything we wanted to be if we just stayed in school and did our homework, and you have people waking up from the American Dream realizing it's actually a Corporatist Nightmare.

I'd rather be told from the getgo that we're all just nothing special and live without the pressure of the rat race. It seems like a much more serene existence, and maybe then we'd be more inclined to care for each other and the environment.

[Anonymous]

Consistent scientific studies affirm that Conservatives are more attractive sexually and physically stronger than liberals. I think that plays into scientific surveys that show conservatives to be healthier, happier and wealthier on average. The consistent scientific surveys affirming conservatives being better informed are probably just another byproduct of good breeding in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rural conservatives didn't move there, they didn't remove themselves. They were left behind. Anyone with bigger ideas and wanting more opportunities leaves rural America.

You could not be more wrong.

I am the rural conservative who posted earlier. I intentionally moved to this community from the DC area. And, upward of 95% of those in my community intentionally moved here - most from "blue" areas like Detroit, Chicago, NY, and California. And all of these folks will tell you they moved here precisely for the lifestyle and opportunities that don't exist in the big cities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Consistent scientific studies affirm that Conservatives are more attractive sexually and physically stronger than liberals. I think that plays into scientific surveys that show conservatives to be healthier, happier and wealthier on average. The consistent scientific surveys affirming conservatives being better informed are probably just another byproduct of good breeding in general.

If this is true, how come liberal cities lead in terms of health and fitness rather than red states, which lead in obesity and diabetes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, this general idea has been studied and confirms what you are feeling. Conservatives are much more optimistic about our country while leftists are much more pessimistic. In fact on topics that can be measured, both sides, and especially leftists, feelings about these topics are not based on reality and facts. For example, a high number of leftists agree with a statement along the lines of “the USA is among the worst countries in the world for LBGT rights” when this claim is pretty clearly false. I will try to post a link to the article later, but it’s paywalled.

I'm the leftist OP, and no, I actually don't believe that. I do believe in nuance, and the US has done a number of decent things over the last 20-30 years, LGBTQ rights among the best of them. I feel similarly about race, gender, and immigration. There's a lot to be desired of course, but having lived in other countries, racism, sexism, and anti-immigrant feeling is much worse in many other places. So, credit where it's due for sure.

At the same time though, I see identity politics as a new vehicle for corporations to pretend to be woke and feel good about themselves. Pay workers more? Allow unions? No, but we've got a rainbow flag in the C-Suite!

Once again, the difference between a leftist (me) and liberals (the Democrats).

Can you explain what you mean by liberal vs leftist? I’m only familiar classical liberalism which generally is more aligned to conservatism in the US. I don’t really understand the political POV of people who consider themselves liberals but are strong democrats. I’m not judging, just curious.

[Anonymous]

Of course I’m optimistic! The return of Christ, the judgement of the World, the destruction of Satan and the establishment of heaven on Earth.

Getting there will be hard but the truth, justice and love is the end reality.