On the subject of purebred dogs

[Anonymous]

Ohhh we love our Pug from a BYB. He is adorable and since the pandemic we got another one from the same breeder. Love them. Great dogs and no health issues.

Suck it OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As human beings we need to do better by the animals that live on this planet with us. There are hundreds od dogs euthanized daily because they’re not adopted while we pay breeders to breed others so they look a certain way. It’s madness.

I hear you. And I know about purebreds because my family bred them, showed them in dog shows, and trained them for skills competitions on our farm.

But unless you're really into the dog show lifestyle and circuit (I call it a lifestyle), I'm not sure why one would get a purebred. Even if you're into the skills competitions agility is probably the most "fun" and the best show of pure athleticism and I've seen mutts do excellent in agility.

By the way, we've actually had all of the following...every dog has its own personality.

Purebred show quality dogs
Purebred rescue (a breeder we know took back one of their dogs because he was abused, and offered him to us, so, yes, we know he is a purebred)
Mutts

[Anonymous]

Curious, do dogs from BYBs come with pedigrees? We have a rare breed dog from an extremely reputable breeder (shows them, each of her dams only produces one or two litters, max, repeat genetic screening and lifelong commitment to take the dog back if we have to surrender her for any reason), and we have all of the dog's paperwork from CKC documenting her purebred status, parental lineage, etc. For actual recognized breeds that are extremely popular (e.g., golden retrievers, pugs, etc), do the BYBs go through all of the CKC registration hoops?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious, do dogs from BYBs come with pedigrees? We have a rare breed dog from an extremely reputable breeder (shows them, each of her dams only produces one or two litters, max, repeat genetic screening and lifelong commitment to take the dog back if we have to surrender her for any reason), and we have all of the dog's paperwork from CKC documenting her purebred status, parental lineage, etc. For actual recognized breeds that are extremely popular (e.g., golden retrievers, pugs, etc), do the BYBs go through all of the CKC registration hoops?

Whoops - meant AKC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious, do dogs from BYBs come with pedigrees? We have a rare breed dog from an extremely reputable breeder (shows them, each of her dams only produces one or two litters, max, repeat genetic screening and lifelong commitment to take the dog back if we have to surrender her for any reason), and we have all of the dog's paperwork from CKC documenting her purebred status, parental lineage, etc. For actual recognized breeds that are extremely popular (e.g., golden retrievers, pugs, etc), do the BYBs go through all of the CKC registration hoops?

Some do, some don't, some promise and never provide the papers. It doesn't matter as much if you are buying the dog from a byb anyway since you are unlikely to actually need them for anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My doodle breeder does extensive testing on all the potential dams and sires. Get over yourself.

https://www.goldendoodles.net/our-dams-and-sires/

18 adult dogs is not a reputable breeder. This is backyard breeding, approaching puppy mill territory depending on how the dogs live day-to-day, and they say that they don't even test for the things on that list if the parents were "cleared."

These dogs are only the ones currently being bred for upcoming litters. Females only have 2-3 litters before they retire. All dogs are raised by guardians in their own homes. They do not live on site, except for when they are close to giving birth. Not at all a backyard breeder. My dog is 3, and both of her parents have been retired. (She was her mom's first litter).

[Anonymous]

I agree with OP on the definition of a reputable breeder but the average person does not have access to those puppies.

I don’t judge because someone chose an above average backyard breeder or puppy mill. That’s the best choice most people seeking purebreds can make. I’d just like everyone to use the term reputable breeder correctly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As human beings we need to do better by the animals that live on this planet with us. There are hundreds od dogs euthanized daily because they’re not adopted while we pay breeders to breed others so they look a certain way. It’s madness.

I hear you. And I know about purebreds because my family bred them, showed them in dog shows, and trained them for skills competitions on our farm.

But unless you're really into the dog show lifestyle and circuit (I call it a lifestyle), I'm not sure why one would get a purebred. Even if you're into the skills competitions agility is probably the most "fun" and the best show of pure athleticism and I've seen mutts do excellent in agility.

Sure, but those tip top mutts in agility are usually intentionally bred sport mixes. They are rarely shelter dogs. People who are going to spend $1000s upon $1000s in training and trial fees want to stack the deck that they are going to have a stable dog with a resilient temperament. Otherwise they end up like me, many multiple shelter dogs who can't get past rec level agility because they are spooked by male judges or reactive as hell to the dog in front of them on the line. My next dog is coming from a breeder breeding their dogs with proven success in the agility ring (mixed breed though, ironically)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as dogs are bred in a healthy way (no furthering or generating genetic defects or disease), treated well and there is a market for their adoption, who cares?

Most importantly, from a moral standpoint the dogs at these operations are very rarely treated well. They're bred too frequently for their health and starting at too young of an age, they're kept outside or unsocialized, the health of the mother is not prioritized. They spend some money on a website and that's all it takes to convince people this is a good place.

Less important to me, but there's also the fact they're charging people $5k/dog because that's the price set by breeders who are actually trying to improve the breed, ensure the puppies' future health, and take care of all the dogs on premises. That price is a ripoff if it's just people collecting several of the same "breed" of dogs and letting them go at it twice a year.

I don’t doubt what you’re saying is true however I don’t believe it applies across-the-board. There are many supposed backyard breeders who do their darndest to produce healthy dogs with great temperaments. Yes I’m sure the supplies in many circumstances but not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ohhh we love our Pug from a BYB. He is adorable and since the pandemic we got another one from the same breeder. Love them. Great dogs and no health issues.

Suck it OP.

Np Interesting. I just read pugs have lots of medical problems: Hope you have lots of money!

Health
The Pug has a lifespan of 12 to 15 years and is prone to major health problems like Pug Dog Encephalitis (PDE) and canine hip dysplasia (CHD), as well as minor concerns like elongated palate, patellar luxation, stenotic nares, Legg-Perthes disease, entropion, keratoconjunctivitis sicca (KCS), hemivertebra, obesity, and skin infections. Nerve degeneration, demodicosis, seizures, distichiasis, and allergies are occasionally seen in this breed of dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the thread about purebred puppies and scoffing to myself. The vast majority of people will say they went with a “reputable” breeder but you know that statistically that can’t be true, right? Most people get their dogs from backyard breeders or even puppy mills and either don’t know or don’t care. These individuals are producing puppies for a profit, not to further the breed. They are not doing any of the extensive genetic and health testing of the parent dogs that is necessary to know if their puppies will be healthy (for example, such as x-rays of their labs’ or goldens’ hips and elbows) because this is expensive and time consuming and will possibly result in making it unethical to breed their dogs. They're not showing their parent dogs or competing with them in dog sports because this is, again, time consuming and expensive and counterproductive to making a profit. But you need the genetic tests, the x-rays, eye exams, cardiac exams, etc. and show results to tell you if the breeders are producing puppies to breed standard. Once the puppies are born, most BYBs are not socializing them properly because this is expensive and time consuming and they take advantage of the fact that most first time buyers are unaware that they should be doing this. They’re breeding their dams (female dogs) several times a year in order to make a profit and don’t care about the mother’s health or comfort.

A “reputable” breeder will only breed their dam once a year and only 2-3 times total. So it’s more like a really expensive hobby that occasionally brings in income than a job. Demand for dogs is much higher than responsible breeders can produce so hence BYBs puppy mills abound.

Also if you have a doodle, you went to a BYB by definition. Doodles are not a breed.

It’s amazing that defenders of an industry that has created monstrosities like breeds that can’t give birth naturally think they control the moral high ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was reading the thread about purebred puppies and scoffing to myself. The vast majority of people will say they went with a “reputable” breeder but you know that statistically that can’t be true, right? Most people get their dogs from backyard breeders or even puppy mills and either don’t know or don’t care. These individuals are producing puppies for a profit, not to further the breed. They are not doing any of the extensive genetic and health testing of the parent dogs that is necessary to know if their puppies will be healthy (for example, such as x-rays of their labs’ or goldens’ hips and elbows) because this is expensive and time consuming and will possibly result in making it unethical to breed their dogs. They're not showing their parent dogs or competing with them in dog sports because this is, again, time consuming and expensive and counterproductive to making a profit. But you need the genetic tests, the x-rays, eye exams, cardiac exams, etc. and show results to tell you if the breeders are producing puppies to breed standard. Once the puppies are born, most BYBs are not socializing them properly because this is expensive and time consuming and they take advantage of the fact that most first time buyers are unaware that they should be doing this. They’re breeding their dams (female dogs) several times a year in order to make a profit and don’t care about the mother’s health or comfort.

A “reputable” breeder will only breed their dam once a year and only 2-3 times total. So it’s more like a really expensive hobby that occasionally brings in income than a job. Demand for dogs is much higher than responsible breeders can produce so hence BYBs puppy mills abound.

Also if you have a doodle, you went to a BYB by definition. Doodles are not a breed.

It’s amazing that defenders of an industry that has created monstrosities like breeds that can’t give birth naturally think they control the moral high ground.

Coming here to say this. These so-called “reputable breeders” have produced breeds with massive genetic issues. Not just bulldogs, but Cavalier King Charles spaniels, German Shepards, etc. in some cases, even on purpose.

[Anonymous]

Mass producing anything we already have a lot of just to make money is not reputable imo.

[Anonymous]

You do realize that there are many purebred dogs in shelters. My beagle is a purebred. So are pit bulls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ohhh we love our Pug from a BYB. He is adorable and since the pandemic we got another one from the same breeder. Love them. Great dogs and no health issues.

Suck it OP.

Np Interesting. I just read pugs have lots of medical problems: Hope you have lots of money!

Health
The Pug has a lifespan of 12 to 15 years and is prone to major health problems like Pug Dog Encephalitis (PDE) and canine hip dysplasia (CHD), as well as minor concerns like elongated palate, patellar luxation, stenotic nares, Legg-Perthes disease, entropion, keratoconjunctivitis sicca (KCS), hemivertebra, obesity, and skin infections. Nerve degeneration, demodicosis, seizures, distichiasis, and allergies are occasionally seen in this breed of dog.

Our oldest is 10 and doing just fine. He just did 4 miles with me this morning (walking). His only issue is his anal glands need to be expressed about once a month. My DH does that!