Official TJ Admissions Decisions Results for the Class of 2025

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Thanks! Anyone know why Kilmer application numbers went from 64 for class of 2024 to 113 for class of 2025? Seems like a huge change compared to any other middle school.

Where are you seeing that?

http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml

http://www.fcag.org/2025%20by%20Middle%20School.xlsx
http://www.fcag.org/ClassOf2024TotalsbySchool.xlsx

Also pronounced difference at Thoreau, so near the same Vienna area as Kilmer. Not quite a doubling like Kilmer though:

2024
Thoreau Middle School 47 14 TS

2025
Thoreau Middle School 64 26 TS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Thanks! Anyone know why Kilmer application numbers went from 64 for class of 2024 to 113 for class of 2025? Seems like a huge change compared to any other middle school.

Where are you seeing that?

http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml

http://www.fcag.org/2025%20by%20Middle%20School.xlsx
http://www.fcag.org/ClassOf2024TotalsbySchool.xlsx

Also pronounced difference at Thoreau, so near the same Vienna area as Kilmer. Not quite a doubling like Kilmer though:

2024
Thoreau Middle School 47 14 TS

2025
Thoreau Middle School 64 26 TS

I hate to be so simplistic, but pronounced increases like that combined with the significant declines in applications from Carson and Rocky Run would suggest that there might be a racial component at work there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Thanks! Anyone know why Kilmer application numbers went from 64 for class of 2024 to 113 for class of 2025? Seems like a huge change compared to any other middle school.

Where are you seeing that?

http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml

http://www.fcag.org/2025%20by%20Middle%20School.xlsx
http://www.fcag.org/ClassOf2024TotalsbySchool.xlsx

Also pronounced difference at Thoreau, so near the same Vienna area as Kilmer. Not quite a doubling like Kilmer though:

2024
Thoreau Middle School 47 14 TS

2025
Thoreau Middle School 64 26 TS

I hate to be so simplistic, but pronounced increases like that combined with the significant declines in applications from Carson and Rocky Run would suggest that there might be a racial component at work there.

I don't follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Thanks! Anyone know why Kilmer application numbers went from 64 for class of 2024 to 113 for class of 2025? Seems like a huge change compared to any other middle school.

Where are you seeing that?

http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml

http://www.fcag.org/2025%20by%20Middle%20School.xlsx
http://www.fcag.org/ClassOf2024TotalsbySchool.xlsx

Also pronounced difference at Thoreau, so near the same Vienna area as Kilmer. Not quite a doubling like Kilmer though:

2024
Thoreau Middle School 47 14 TS

2025
Thoreau Middle School 64 26 TS

I hate to be so simplistic, but pronounced increases like that combined with the significant declines in applications from Carson and Rocky Run would suggest that there might be a racial component at work there.

I don't follow.

Vienna is largely white while Herndon and Chantilly are largely South Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

Sad.

How? These numbers indicate increases almost across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

These data would seem to pretty solidly support the hypothesis that the new admissions process increased interest in TJ from these underrepresented schools. That's a 22% increase year over year.

I imagine it's a different ballgame when you're more or less assured that if you get in, there will be at least 5-6 others from your school this year and in future years as well. Changes the game with respect to carpools, participation in activities, having someone to sit with at lunch.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

These data would seem to pretty solidly support the hypothesis that the new admissions process increased interest in TJ from these underrepresented schools. That's a 22% increase year over year.

I imagine it's a different ballgame when you're more or less assured that if you get in, there will be at least 5-6 others from your school this year and in future years as well. Changes the game with respect to carpools, participation in activities, having someone to sit with at lunch.....

Also, increases probably tempered by Covid, the late adoption of the new admissions policy, and not wanting to the only one from a school as you suggest. The five year numbers are likely to show significant increases in apps, demonstrating that the new policy is working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

These data would seem to pretty solidly support the hypothesis that the new admissions process increased interest in TJ from these underrepresented schools. That's a 22% increase year over year.

I imagine it's a different ballgame when you're more or less assured that if you get in, there will be at least 5-6 others from your school this year and in future years as well. Changes the game with respect to carpools, participation in activities, having someone to sit with at lunch.....

Also, increases probably tempered by Covid, the late adoption of the new admissions policy, and not wanting to the only one from a school as you suggest. The five year numbers are likely to show significant increases in apps, demonstrating that the new policy is working.

So true. It is invaluable to these schools to see their kids go off to TJ and have success - and hopefully be in a warm and accepting environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

Sad.

How? These numbers indicate increases almost across the board.

I honestly thought applications would double or triple once there were guaranteed spot and you no longer thought it was hopeless to apply if you didn't take a prep class or get to participate in a bunch of extracurricular STEM acitivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

Sad.

How? These numbers indicate increases almost across the board.

I honestly thought applications would double or triple once there were guaranteed spot and you no longer thought it was hopeless to apply if you didn't take a prep class or get to participate in a bunch of extracurricular STEM acitivies.

TJ still has a ton of work to do on its reputation within Northern Virginia. There is a pervasive (and frankly, warranted) belief that it has not been a welcoming environment for Black and Hispanic students, as other students at the school have (usually unknowingly) engaged in fairly damaging microaggressions against those students.

It is common at TJ to hear insinuations that Black and Hispanic students owe all of their success and achievements to affirmative action - that they are "diversity picks" both for TJ and for college and that they're less deserving than other students. The same goes for the parents, who are surprisingly candid when they believe they're talking to someone who agrees with them, and seem to be completely unaware of how offensive their beliefs are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

Sad.

How? These numbers indicate increases almost across the board.

I honestly thought applications would double or triple once there were guaranteed spot and you no longer thought it was hopeless to apply if you didn't take a prep class or get to participate in a bunch of extracurricular STEM acitivies.

TJ still has a ton of work to do on its reputation within Northern Virginia. There is a pervasive (and frankly, warranted) belief that it has not been a welcoming environment for Black and Hispanic students, as other students at the school have (usually unknowingly) engaged in fairly damaging microaggressions against those students.

It is common at TJ to hear insinuations that Black and Hispanic students owe all of their success and achievements to affirmative action - that they are "diversity picks" both for TJ and for college and that they're less deserving than other students. The same goes for the parents, who are surprisingly candid when they believe they're talking to someone who agrees with them, and seem to be completely unaware of how offensive their beliefs are.

Can confirm all of this. Every spring you hear this crap in the TJ hallways in college admissions season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let FCPS do their thing. Just face the fact that things are being done differently and if you don’t like it, find somewhere else to send your kids.

Seriously. There are dozens of outstanding public and private schools in the Northern Virginia area. What is happening with TJ admissions right now is a canary in the coal mine for what is happening at the school within the building. You can like or dislike it, but if you don't like it then go find somewhere else to be negative. Send your kids somewhere else if you don't want a stronger emphasis on social responsibility with respect to STEM education. And if you're that desperate for the damn bumper sticker, then adapt or perish.

The next chance to litigate the TJ Admissions issue will be in the School Board elections in November of 2023. The admissions process for the Class of 2026 is about to get underway shortly, and at that point the process for the Class of 2028 will be far enough gone that a newly elected board will not have impact on it. So get used to the idea that there will be four classes at TJ simultaneously that will have been selected under a geographic-representation, non-testing process.

That's awesome! So glad they're replacing the backbench preppers with a more diverse group of truly gifted students from less affluent schools.

I just have to ask: Exactly how and by what means are they finding and determining these "truly gifted" students? Magical sorting hat? Some other quantitative method? If we could get to the bottom of this, I can agree with your statement, until then it's just wishful thinking.

DP. I would disagree with the "truly gifted" assessment but I'm quite confident that bringing in the most successful students from different backgrounds and schools to replace the back end of the bloated groups from Carson, Longfellow, Rocky Run, and Kilmer will be a huge positive for the culture of the school. TJ has always been at its best when students are able to differentiate themselves from one another and find their respective niches.

Yes of course, but by what mechanism is this differentiating being done? Aren't all applicants truly differentent and have their own strengths/interests? What makes the painful and lengthy application process any different from just having a lottery?

Honestly, no. The previous admissions process essentially drew a picture of the ideal TJ applicant and incentivized families to do everything they could to make their child look that ideal applicant - meaning relentless test prep, advancement in math, and a relatively narrow range of STEM-focused extracurriculars to the exclusion of just about everything else. This is why college admissions officers have repeatedly reported to folks in the TJ Student Services department that they can't tell TJ kids apart from one another in the application process, except when they venture outside of the typical TJ path.

But wouldn't this be an issue at every other math science magnet school in the country? These magnet schools self select for math and science primarily, then everything else after that. Sure it's great that students have other interests and passions in addition to math and science. I guess I'm not really understanding what the current admissions is doing differently than before (besides eliminating the test, which is the main point of contention, I believe).

Eliminating the exam allowed them to eliminate the application fee, which dropped a huge barrier. Additionally, they set aside spaces at each participating public middle school equal to 1.5% of their 8th grade population - anywhere from 5-12 seats per school - alongside about 230 other spaces for the highest performing students who did not capture one of those allocated seats.

But how would these things do anything to change college perception that TJ students look the same, as stated upthread? Also, I heard that total applicants are down by quite a lot compared to years back. Did the elimination of the fee and test do anything to up the # of applicants, indicating an increase interest in the school? Do we have any data on this?

1) It will take some time to change that perception, because the Class of 2025 - the first under the new process - won't be entering the college application process for three more years. But given the significant demographic shift within that class - most significantly, raising the FARMS rate from 1-2% to 25% - there should be a pretty significant difference in how that class is perceived when they start submitting those applications. Plus, remember that the behaviors causing students to seem the same are no longer incentivized by the new process.

2) Yes! Applications skyrocketed from around 2,500 for Class of 2024 to over 3,000 for Class of 2025 - a huge change in one year. For more detail on the demographic breakdowns of applicants, reference the FCPS press releases for each class:

2024: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-486-students

2025: https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem

Here are the application numbers from the FCPS middle schools designated as "underrepresented" for 2025 and 2024

Glasgow 88 72
Holmes 40 17
Hughes 41 36
Key 40 35
Poe 28 24
Sandburg 62 51
South County 54 40
Stone 20 11
Twain 76 83
Whitman 24 19
473 388

Sad.

How? These numbers indicate increases almost across the board.

I honestly thought applications would double or triple once there were guaranteed spot and you no longer thought it was hopeless to apply if you didn't take a prep class or get to participate in a bunch of extracurricular STEM acitivies.

TJ still has a ton of work to do on its reputation within Northern Virginia. There is a pervasive (and frankly, warranted) belief that it has not been a welcoming environment for Black and Hispanic students, as other students at the school have (usually unknowingly) engaged in fairly damaging microaggressions against those students.

It is common at TJ to hear insinuations that Black and Hispanic students owe all of their success and achievements to affirmative action - that they are "diversity picks" both for TJ and for college and that they're less deserving than other students. The same goes for the parents, who are surprisingly candid when they believe they're talking to someone who agrees with them, and seem to be completely unaware of how offensive their beliefs are.

Can confirm all of this. Every spring you hear this crap in the TJ hallways in college admissions season.

Um, yeah, that's not limited to TJ... that is a common problem all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It is common at TJ to hear insinuations that Black and Hispanic students owe all of their success and achievements to affirmative action - that they are "diversity picks" both for TJ and for college and that they're less deserving than other students. The same goes for the parents, who are surprisingly candid when they believe they're talking to someone who agrees with them, and seem to be completely unaware of how offensive their beliefs are.

I'm sure that will disappear now that they are admitting with a per school quota that was put in with a goal of increasing blacks and Hispanics.