TJ Falls to 14th in the Nation Per US News

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

They can't. I've asked multiple times for a link to a news article or story for a reputable source about this supposed 'cheating scandal.' No one has ever provided anything beyond dcum or facebook anonymous posts as 'evidence.'

Many people responded to these requests multiple times for pages and pages. Yet you choose to ask for them again and again, no matter how many times it's posted. This is a fool's errand.

^ someone doesn’t understand what a “news article” or “reputable source” is.

^ someone wants to cover up the rampant cheating that everyone knows was going on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP.

The concern that many people in the community had, including school board members, was that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions, including the Quant-Q, which is an NDA-protected test.

Copied from my “roundup thread”.

2. CONCERN ABOUT TJ PREP INDUSTRY
There was also public concern about the TJ test prep industry that led, in part, to changes in the admissions process. By reverse engineering the admissions criteria/process, prep companies offered kids an unfair advantage in admissions. In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”



3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS
The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
“Test Taker Interface User Agreement
In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.”
Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface.

Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose. The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access.

[i]"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."



4. TJ STUDENTS ACKNOWLEDGED UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
TH students and others have acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy.

https://www.tjtoday.org/29411/features/students-divided-on-proposed-changes-to-admissions-process/
“ “Personally, TJ admissions was not a challenge to navigate. I had a sibling who attended before me. However, a lot of resources needed to navigate admissions cost money. That is an unfair advantage given to more economically advantaged students,” junior Vivi Rao said. ”



5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING ADMISSIONS TEST QUESTIONS, INCLUDING QUANT-Q
TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

This whole post can be boiled down to “someone on Facebook said it happened.”

Not even that.

No one claims to have bought test answers.

Do you acknowledge that many people in the community, including school board members, were concerned that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions?

White people are always concerned when their kids start to lose seats to asian kids.
If wealth was the driver of who got into TJ, TJ would be predominantly white.
There was no unfair advantage with the SHSAT because anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get a Barrons or Princeton review book.
FCPS created the problem with their weird notion that ambush testing was somehow a good thing.

False.

Wealthy white families recognize that TJ is a grind that diminishes their kids’ chances to get into a top college.

Do you think the WISC and CoGAT are “ambush testing”? Do you think it’s ok for families to prep for those?

This is of course bullshit. White families didn't leave, they got crowded out.
White families didn't pass on TJ any more than they passed on medical school, investment banking, ivy+, or anything else
TJ used to be predominantly white and they didn't leave of their own accord

This is what is known as sour grapes. White families with mediocre kids pretending that they aren't going to TJ or ivy+ because they CHOOSE not to go to TJ or ivy+ They never had the choice
TJ and ivy+ isn't the goal of life but pretending that white families have gone from almost 100% of TJ and almost 100% of ivy+ to 20% of TJ before the admissions change looks like a coping mechanism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

They can't. I've asked multiple times for a link to a news article or story for a reputable source about this supposed 'cheating scandal.' No one has ever provided anything beyond dcum or facebook anonymous posts as 'evidence.'

People responded multiple times to these requests but after the 5th-6th ask got tired of responding, but for anyone who is interested there were multiple links to a local news outlet, a TJ Facebook Group, the student paper and numerous first-hand accounts. This was thoroughly discussed about 50 pages back in this thread.

You're playing stupid games and you're going to win stupid prizes.
The moderator of the board came in here to ask for evidence of these claims.
If there are news stories about students buying the tests before the tests are administered, then link them again, otherwise quit it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

This was also shared multiple times earlier in this thread around page 50.

Without trying to find a needle in a haystack, from what I read on the recent pages, what students were able to purchase was old test questions, not current test answers. That is an important distinction that those making allegations should be careful to make clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

They can't. I've asked multiple times for a link to a news article or story for a reputable source about this supposed 'cheating scandal.' No one has ever provided anything beyond dcum or facebook anonymous posts as 'evidence.'

People responded multiple times to these requests but after the 5th-6th ask got tired of responding, but for anyone who is interested there were multiple links to a local news outlet, a TJ Facebook Group, the student paper and numerous first-hand accounts. This was thoroughly discussed about 50 pages back in this thread.

Either you're being disingenuous, or you have reading comprehension issues. The local news had nothing whatsoever to do with "buying copies of the test" and instead were about whether wealthier people were overly privileged in the admissions process. A facebook group is not a reputable source or a news outlet. The TJ paper article was about the author's experience in TJ prep well before the Quant Q or any other secured exam was used. Firsthand accounts are also not a news article or story from a reputable source.

It's amazing that "everyone knows" about this cheating scandal or test buying, yet it apparently was not reported by any real news outlet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP.

The concern that many people in the community had, including school board members, was that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions, including the Quant-Q, which is an NDA-protected test.

Copied from my “roundup thread”.

2. CONCERN ABOUT TJ PREP INDUSTRY
There was also public concern about the TJ test prep industry that led, in part, to changes in the admissions process. By reverse engineering the admissions criteria/process, prep companies offered kids an unfair advantage in admissions. In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”



3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS
The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
“Test Taker Interface User Agreement
In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.”
Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface.

Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose. The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access.

[i]"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."



4. TJ STUDENTS ACKNOWLEDGED UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
TH students and others have acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy.

https://www.tjtoday.org/29411/features/students-divided-on-proposed-changes-to-admissions-process/
“ “Personally, TJ admissions was not a challenge to navigate. I had a sibling who attended before me. However, a lot of resources needed to navigate admissions cost money. That is an unfair advantage given to more economically advantaged students,” junior Vivi Rao said. ”



5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING ADMISSIONS TEST QUESTIONS, INCLUDING QUANT-Q
TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

This whole post can be boiled down to “someone on Facebook said it happened.”

Not even that.

No one claims to have bought test answers.

Do you acknowledge that many people in the community, including school board members, were concerned that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions?

White people are always concerned when their kids start to lose seats to asian kids.
If wealth was the driver of who got into TJ, TJ would be predominantly white.
There was no unfair advantage with the SHSAT because anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get a Barrons or Princeton review book.
FCPS created the problem with their weird notion that ambush testing was somehow a good thing.

False.

Wealthy white families recognize that TJ is a grind that diminishes their kids’ chances to get into a top college.

Do you think the WISC and CoGAT are “ambush testing”? Do you think it’s ok for families to prep for those?

This is of course bullshit. White families didn't leave, they got crowded out.
White families didn't pass on TJ any more than they passed on medical school, investment banking, ivy+, or anything else
TJ used to be predominantly white and they didn't leave of their own accord

This is what is known as sour grapes. White families with mediocre kids pretending that they aren't going to TJ or ivy+ because they CHOOSE not to go to TJ or ivy+ They never had the choice
TJ and ivy+ isn't the goal of life but pretending that white families have gone from almost 100% of TJ and almost 100% of ivy+ to 20% of TJ before the admissions change looks like a coping mechanism

I know several white Arlington families this year that had kids get in and turn it down. There were numerous reasons why they ended up declining, but they did indeed decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

They can't. I've asked multiple times for a link to a news article or story for a reputable source about this supposed 'cheating scandal.' No one has ever provided anything beyond dcum or facebook anonymous posts as 'evidence.'

People responded multiple times to these requests but after the 5th-6th ask got tired of responding, but for anyone who is interested there were multiple links to a local news outlet, a TJ Facebook Group, the student paper and numerous first-hand accounts. This was thoroughly discussed about 50 pages back in this thread.

You're playing stupid games and you're going to win stupid prizes.
The moderator of the board came in here to ask for evidence of these claims.
If there are news stories about students buying the tests before the tests are administered, then link them again, otherwise quit it.

And that evidence was posted here in this thread dozens of times. You just choose to ignore it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP.

The concern that many people in the community had, including school board members, was that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions, including the Quant-Q, which is an NDA-protected test.

Copied from my “roundup thread”.

2. CONCERN ABOUT TJ PREP INDUSTRY
There was also public concern about the TJ test prep industry that led, in part, to changes in the admissions process. By reverse engineering the admissions criteria/process, prep companies offered kids an unfair advantage in admissions. In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”



3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS
The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
“Test Taker Interface User Agreement
In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.”
Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface.

Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose. The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access.

[i]"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."



4. TJ STUDENTS ACKNOWLEDGED UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
TH students and others have acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy.

https://www.tjtoday.org/29411/features/students-divided-on-proposed-changes-to-admissions-process/
“ “Personally, TJ admissions was not a challenge to navigate. I had a sibling who attended before me. However, a lot of resources needed to navigate admissions cost money. That is an unfair advantage given to more economically advantaged students,” junior Vivi Rao said. ”



5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING ADMISSIONS TEST QUESTIONS, INCLUDING QUANT-Q
TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

This whole post can be boiled down to “someone on Facebook said it happened.”

Not even that.

No one claims to have bought test answers.

Do you acknowledge that many people in the community, including school board members, were concerned that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions?

White people are always concerned when their kids start to lose seats to asian kids.
If wealth was the driver of who got into TJ, TJ would be predominantly white.
There was no unfair advantage with the SHSAT because anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get a Barrons or Princeton review book.
FCPS created the problem with their weird notion that ambush testing was somehow a good thing.

False.

Wealthy white families recognize that TJ is a grind that diminishes their kids’ chances to get into a top college.

Do you think the WISC and CoGAT are “ambush testing”? Do you think it’s ok for families to prep for those?

This is of course bullshit. White families didn't leave, they got crowded out.
White families didn't pass on TJ any more than they passed on medical school, investment banking, ivy+, or anything else
TJ used to be predominantly white and they didn't leave of their own accord

This is what is known as sour grapes. White families with mediocre kids pretending that they aren't going to TJ or ivy+ because they CHOOSE not to go to TJ or ivy+ They never had the choice
TJ and ivy+ isn't the goal of life but pretending that white families have gone from almost 100% of TJ and almost 100% of ivy+ to 20% of TJ before the admissions change looks like a coping mechanism

I know several white Arlington families this year that had kids get in and turn it down. There were numerous reasons why they ended up declining, but they did indeed decline.

In my circles of affluent white families (many with T10 undergrad/grad parents), parents explicitly said they didn’t want their kids to have a grueling HS experience. And that TJ would actually hurt their kids’ chances at top colleges. All that work for no benefit. The exceptions were a couple super nerdy STEM kids who thrived at TJ.

Very few families seriously considered TJ. Many families did look at private schools though.

That PP doesn’t have a clue about wealthy white families.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

This was also shared multiple times earlier in this thread around page 50.

Without trying to find a needle in a haystack, from what I read on the recent pages, what students were able to purchase was old test questions, not current test answers. That is an important distinction that those making allegations should be careful to make clear.

Yes, the Curie scandal is well documented. It went on around 4 years ago and was the main driver for the changes in TJ admission process since it favored a few wealthy feeders where students could afford expensive prep. Some people are hung up on it. Although there is a test of sorts today, it's more of an essay and nobody has suggested there people were cheating.

[Anonymous]

IIRC wasn’t there a “scandal” several years back with FCPS families getting actual test questions for the CoGAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP.

The concern that many people in the community had, including school board members, was that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions, including the Quant-Q, which is an NDA-protected test.

Copied from my “roundup thread”.

2. CONCERN ABOUT TJ PREP INDUSTRY
There was also public concern about the TJ test prep industry that led, in part, to changes in the admissions process. By reverse engineering the admissions criteria/process, prep companies offered kids an unfair advantage in admissions. In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”



3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS
The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
“Test Taker Interface User Agreement
In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.”
Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface.

Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose. The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access.

[i]"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."



4. TJ STUDENTS ACKNOWLEDGED UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
TH students and others have acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy.

https://www.tjtoday.org/29411/features/students-divided-on-proposed-changes-to-admissions-process/
“ “Personally, TJ admissions was not a challenge to navigate. I had a sibling who attended before me. However, a lot of resources needed to navigate admissions cost money. That is an unfair advantage given to more economically advantaged students,” junior Vivi Rao said. ”



5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING ADMISSIONS TEST QUESTIONS, INCLUDING QUANT-Q
TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

This whole post can be boiled down to “someone on Facebook said it happened.”

Not even that.

No one claims to have bought test answers.

Do you acknowledge that many people in the community, including school board members, were concerned that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions?

White people are always concerned when their kids start to lose seats to asian kids.
If wealth was the driver of who got into TJ, TJ would be predominantly white.
There was no unfair advantage with the SHSAT because anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get a Barrons or Princeton review book.
FCPS created the problem with their weird notion that ambush testing was somehow a good thing.

False.

Wealthy white families recognize that TJ is a grind that diminishes their kids’ chances to get into a top college.

Do you think the WISC and CoGAT are “ambush testing”? Do you think it’s ok for families to prep for those?

This is of course bullshit. White families didn't leave, they got crowded out.
White families didn't pass on TJ any more than they passed on medical school, investment banking, ivy+, or anything else
TJ used to be predominantly white and they didn't leave of their own accord

This is what is known as sour grapes. White families with mediocre kids pretending that they aren't going to TJ or ivy+ because they CHOOSE not to go to TJ or ivy+ They never had the choice
TJ and ivy+ isn't the goal of life but pretending that white families have gone from almost 100% of TJ and almost 100% of ivy+ to 20% of TJ before the admissions change looks like a coping mechanism

I know several white Arlington families this year that had kids get in and turn it down. There were numerous reasons why they ended up declining, but they did indeed decline.

That doesn't mean the white population went from 100% to 20% because white people chose not to go.
The asian population didn't go from 70% to 50% while increasing the white population because whites suddenly wanted to go again.
I know a lot of asian families that chose not to go mainly because the commute was not worth it anymore.
They were mostly targetting UVA/VT anyways and the advise seems to be that you have a better chance at UVA/VT from your base school than TJ.
The white families I know that chose not to go had also kids that they didn't think could really benefit from TJ, and that's a reasonable choice but TJ wasn't 70% asian because white people decided not to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

They can't. I've asked multiple times for a link to a news article or story for a reputable source about this supposed 'cheating scandal.' No one has ever provided anything beyond dcum or facebook anonymous posts as 'evidence.'

People responded multiple times to these requests but after the 5th-6th ask got tired of responding, but for anyone who is interested there were multiple links to a local news outlet, a TJ Facebook Group, the student paper and numerous first-hand accounts. This was thoroughly discussed about 50 pages back in this thread.

You're playing stupid games and you're going to win stupid prizes.
The moderator of the board came in here to ask for evidence of these claims.
If there are news stories about students buying the tests before the tests are administered, then link them again, otherwise quit it.

And that evidence was posted here in this thread dozens of times. You just choose to ignore it.

The moderator has asked you to provide a link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP.

The concern that many people in the community had, including school board members, was that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions, including the Quant-Q, which is an NDA-protected test.

Copied from my “roundup thread”.

2. CONCERN ABOUT TJ PREP INDUSTRY
There was also public concern about the TJ test prep industry that led, in part, to changes in the admissions process. By reverse engineering the admissions criteria/process, prep companies offered kids an unfair advantage in admissions. In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”



3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS
The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
“Test Taker Interface User Agreement
In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.”
Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface.

Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose. The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access.

[i]"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."



4. TJ STUDENTS ACKNOWLEDGED UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
TH students and others have acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy.

https://www.tjtoday.org/29411/features/students-divided-on-proposed-changes-to-admissions-process/
“ “Personally, TJ admissions was not a challenge to navigate. I had a sibling who attended before me. However, a lot of resources needed to navigate admissions cost money. That is an unfair advantage given to more economically advantaged students,” junior Vivi Rao said. ”



5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING ADMISSIONS TEST QUESTIONS, INCLUDING QUANT-Q
TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

This whole post can be boiled down to “someone on Facebook said it happened.”

Not even that.

No one claims to have bought test answers.

Do you acknowledge that many people in the community, including school board members, were concerned that wealthy kids obtained an unfair advantage because their families could afford to get access to previous test questions?

White people are always concerned when their kids start to lose seats to asian kids.
If wealth was the driver of who got into TJ, TJ would be predominantly white.
There was no unfair advantage with the SHSAT because anyone with $20 and an amazon account could get a Barrons or Princeton review book.
FCPS created the problem with their weird notion that ambush testing was somehow a good thing.

False.

Wealthy white families recognize that TJ is a grind that diminishes their kids’ chances to get into a top college.

Do you think the WISC and CoGAT are “ambush testing”? Do you think it’s ok for families to prep for those?

This is of course bullshit. White families didn't leave, they got crowded out.
White families didn't pass on TJ any more than they passed on medical school, investment banking, ivy+, or anything else
TJ used to be predominantly white and they didn't leave of their own accord

This is what is known as sour grapes. White families with mediocre kids pretending that they aren't going to TJ or ivy+ because they CHOOSE not to go to TJ or ivy+ They never had the choice
TJ and ivy+ isn't the goal of life but pretending that white families have gone from almost 100% of TJ and almost 100% of ivy+ to 20% of TJ before the admissions change looks like a coping mechanism

I know several white Arlington families this year that had kids get in and turn it down. There were numerous reasons why they ended up declining, but they did indeed decline.

In my circles of affluent white families (many with T10 undergrad/grad parents), parents explicitly said they didn’t want their kids to have a grueling HS experience. And that TJ would actually hurt their kids’ chances at top colleges. All that work for no benefit. The exceptions were a couple super nerdy STEM kids who thrived at TJ.

Very few families seriously considered TJ. Many families did look at private schools though.

That PP doesn’t have a clue about wealthy white families.

PP here. You think people have been sending their kids to public school from k-8 and then send their kids to private school for 9-12?

Do you know how many TJ parents I know that acted all non-committal about wanting their kids to go to TJ until they got in? Noone wants to look like they really wanted to go but their kid got rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

This was also shared multiple times earlier in this thread around page 50.

Without trying to find a needle in a haystack, from what I read on the recent pages, what students were able to purchase was old test questions, not current test answers. That is an important distinction that those making allegations should be careful to make clear.

Yes, the Curie scandal is well documented. It went on around 4 years ago and was the main driver for the changes in TJ admission process since it favored a few wealthy feeders where students could afford expensive prep. Some people are hung up on it. Although there is a test of sorts today, it's more of an essay and nobody has suggested there people were cheating.

You are responding to the moderator. Please provide a link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WSJ Article "The Roots of STEM Excellence"

It should be one of the nation’s highest educational priorities to get its most brilliant STEM students into those elite universities. Until a few years ago, the California Institute of Technology was the model.
...

The record of achievement among Caltech graduates and faculty speaks for itself—46 Nobel Laureates, 66 awarded National Medals of Science and 75 elected to the National Academy of Sciences, all generated by a school that enrolls only about 1,000 undergraduates and 1,400 graduate students at a time.
..

"Based on the known distribution of math talent at the highest level and sex differences in occupational preferences, the students in these elite STEM departments will be more than 90% Asian or white and more than 80% male. But some things are more important than having the correct demographic mix. Finding and developing one of our rarest and most precious human resources is one of them."

People don't realize how important it is to human civilization to nurture the far right tail of the IQ distribution.
Having fusion energy 10 years sooner will make concerns about global warming almost evaporate.
AI and Robotics will make a lot of dangerous jobs (and traffic accidents) a thing of the past.
We aren't going to protest our way out of the really big problems, we are going to science our way out of it. We are going to think our way out of it.

If we are concerned about the achievement gap then close the achievement gap.
We know how to do it, we've known how to do it for years but we don't do it on the left because we don't want to tell URM to work harder and the right doesn't really care enough about closing the achievement gap to dedicate the effort and resources.
Don't undermine merit and PRETEND you've closed the achievement gap that's the worst of both worlds.

Yet many people here still think cheating is merit.

That's frequently driven by white supremacist impulses.

They have to justify why non-white people are doing better than them at something in spite of the incredibly racist society they pretend exists in america (sure there's some but not like they say).

The white supremacists on the left have always been there, but they only have permission to be racist against model minorities. That's why you see gaza protests.

Stop being a cheater apologist! This is clearly driven by the fact that many students were gaming the admissions by purchasing access to the test answers. I get it, but pretending that's merit is as ridiculous as it is misguided.

The allegation that student were purchasing access to the test answers has been made several times. Could you please provide some evidence that this occurred?

They can't. I've asked multiple times for a link to a news article or story for a reputable source about this supposed 'cheating scandal.' No one has ever provided anything beyond dcum or facebook anonymous posts as 'evidence.'

People responded multiple times to these requests but after the 5th-6th ask got tired of responding, but for anyone who is interested there were multiple links to a local news outlet, a TJ Facebook Group, the student paper and numerous first-hand accounts. This was thoroughly discussed about 50 pages back in this thread.

You're playing stupid games and you're going to win stupid prizes.
The moderator of the board came in here to ask for evidence of these claims.
If there are news stories about students buying the tests before the tests are administered, then link them again, otherwise quit it.

And that evidence was posted here in this thread dozens of times. You just choose to ignore it.

No it hasn't been. The only "evidence" that has been posted is either an
-anonymous dcum post
-a Facebook post
-an opinion piece where the author thinks that affluence or prep gives an unfair advantage, but doesn't address any purchasing of test answers.

No one has provided a real news article that specifically addresses a cheating scandal or buying test answers.