Woodward HS boundary study - BCC, Blair, Einstein, WJ, Kennedy, Northwood, Wheaton, Whitman impacts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

If you look at academic performance metrics that MCPS makes available, you can see top schools have still been going strong, even through COVID. These schools are still excellent. If MCPS makes deliberate changes which end up tanking these metrics, they might end up making a more drastic transformation of the educational landscape than they foresaw.

I wouldn't say they're excellent per se, but they have fewer low-income students dragging down their test averages because of the historically redlined boundaries. Even if they were magically more diverse tomorrow, the same kids who are already there would do exactly the same because that's more of a function of the HHI and parental education level.

I disagree, I still think they're excellent. I grew up in the area and had a large social circle that included W and non-W schools. The difference in college readiness and life outcomes between the two considerable. Out of dozens of people from my extended social circle, I am the only non-W student who became a homeowner, whereas almost every single W kid is a homeowner- and most of them were not from wealthy families. I know it's anecdotal, but from my experience it's been a night and day difference.

I do agree with you that performance is a function of HHI and parental education, and that a more diverse student body does not inherently degrade performance. But I wonder if the ecosystem that allows these schools to thrive is more fragile than MCPS realizes. We will see in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

If you look at academic performance metrics that MCPS makes available, you can see top schools have still been going strong, even through COVID. These schools are still excellent. If MCPS makes deliberate changes which end up tanking these metrics, they might end up making a more drastic transformation of the educational landscape than they foresaw.

I wouldn't say they're excellent per se, but they have fewer low-income students dragging down their test averages because of the historically redlined boundaries. Even if they were magically more diverse tomorrow, the same kids who are already there would do exactly the same because that's more of a function of the HHI and parental education level.

&nless they bus in enough poor kids to make the school so disruptive that even the high performing kids can't learn anymore....which is why east county progressives want busing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

MCPS's FARMS rate is 43.8%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

Damn you, Poe's Law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

If you look at academic performance metrics that MCPS makes available, you can see top schools have still been going strong, even through COVID. These schools are still excellent. If MCPS makes deliberate changes which end up tanking these metrics, they might end up making a more drastic transformation of the educational landscape than they foresaw.

I wouldn't say they're excellent per se, but they have fewer low-income students dragging down their test averages because of the historically redlined boundaries. Even if they were magically more diverse tomorrow, the same kids who are already there would do exactly the same because that's more of a function of the HHI and parental education level.

I disagree, I still think they're excellent. I grew up in the area and had a large social circle that included W and non-W schools. The difference in college readiness and life outcomes between the two considerable. Out of dozens of people from my extended social circle, I am the only non-W student who became a homeowner, whereas almost every single W kid is a homeowner- and most of them were not from wealthy families. I know it's anecdotal, but from my experience it's been a night and day difference.

I do agree with you that performance is a function of HHI and parental education, and that a more diverse student body does not inherently degrade performance. But I wonder if the ecosystem that allows these schools to thrive is more fragile than MCPS realizes. We will see in a few years.

This. It only takes a couple disruptive kids in a class to hinder learning. So a 10-20% rise in farms rate would dramatically lower the level of learning in the entire school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

Damn you, Poe's Law.

What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

No, it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

Sounds like you'd be happier in private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

No, it doesn't.

Yes it does. This quote is from the boundary analysis. "This study, when completed, will look at socio-economic as well as demographic and ethnic diversity
within the county. The consultants will focus on three indicators representing key diversity impacts: Ever-
FARMS (Free and Reduced-price Meals System), race/ethnicity, and ESOL (English for Speakers of Other
Languages)...The use of Ever-FARMS as one of the
diversity lenses serves as a proxy for poverty that considers those who may be eligible for free or
reduced-price meals but, out of fear of social pressures, do not complete the paperwork as well as those
who may have moved just above the eligibility line but are still affected by poverty." Pro-busers use this metric because it boosts the numbers of poor kids by about 10% which allows them to justify busing more kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

Sounds like you'd be happier in private school.

My kids' schools are under 10% so I'm happy. I'd be happier if east county progressives weren't trying to ruin our schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

If you look at academic performance metrics that MCPS makes available, you can see top schools have still been going strong, even through COVID. These schools are still excellent. If MCPS makes deliberate changes which end up tanking these metrics, they might end up making a more drastic transformation of the educational landscape than they foresaw.

I wouldn't say they're excellent per se, but they have fewer low-income students dragging down their test averages because of the historically redlined boundaries. Even if they were magically more diverse tomorrow, the same kids who are already there would do exactly the same because that's more of a function of the HHI and parental education level.

Nailed It!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

Sounds like you'd be happier in private school.

My kids' schools are under 10% so I'm happy. I'd be happier if east county progressives weren't trying to ruin our schools.

I know we shouldn't have to mix with those poors even the ones near our schools!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

If you look at academic performance metrics that MCPS makes available, you can see top schools have still been going strong, even through COVID. These schools are still excellent. If MCPS makes deliberate changes which end up tanking these metrics, they might end up making a more drastic transformation of the educational landscape than they foresaw.

I wouldn't say they're excellent per se, but they have fewer low-income students dragging down their test averages because of the historically redlined boundaries. Even if they were magically more diverse tomorrow, the same kids who are already there would do exactly the same because that's more of a function of the HHI and parental education level.

&nless they bus in enough poor kids to make the school so disruptive that even the high performing kids can't learn anymore....which is why east county progressives want busing.

A select few want busing. We don’t want our kids at your schools which is why we choose to live in the dcc. Dcc has wealthy families with high hhi and educations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.

Everfarms (which is what MCPS uses to determine boundaries) is 42% in MCPS. And I don't care what the county's average is. As long as my kids' schools are under 10% I'm happy.

Sounds like you'd be happier in private school.

My kids' schools are under 10% so I'm happy. I'd be happier if east county progressives weren't trying to ruin our schools.

I know we shouldn't have to mix with those poors even the ones near our schools!

Correct. Poor kids are like a hot potato. No one wants them in their schools. Everyone knows that most poor kids don't value education and, like crabs in a bucket, drag others down with them. So the question is, who should be forced to deal with them?