Woodward HS boundary study - BCC, Blair, Einstein, WJ, Kennedy, Northwood, Wheaton, Whitman impacts

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:According to the boundary analysis report, a little bit over a third of respondents rated balancing diversity as "not important". The remaining two thirds appear to have rated it as at least somewhat important and 10% rated it as extremely important. People do want to balance demographics which include income, race, ethnicity and language background. The data also show that the people who rated balancing diversity as most important were not from Takoma Park or even Silver Spring, but from Burtonsville, Fairland and Colesville.

Yes, but the only people who ever respond to those surveys all live in the segregated school boundaries. The people keep electing people to the board who prioritize diversity because that reflects the county's true priorities.

True. 54% of respondents were from Bethesda, Potomac and Chevy Chase.

So, the survey only represents the feelings of people in wealthy areas whose kids attend the segregated schools.

Most of the 46% who DON'T live in Bethesda, Potomac, and Chevy Chase also don't want busing. Just one geographic area (Burtonsville) indicated that it might want busing but even they didn't feel too strongly about it.

There were no questions in the survey about MCPS providing bus service or about "busing" whatever TF you are pretending that means. Nearly two thirds of respondents felt that diversity is at least somewhat important. It's true that most respondents value proximity and stability more than diversity, but that doesn't mean they don't care about diversity at all. The BOE's policy and boundary studies since then have been consistent with these preferences by balancing these priorities. If diversity were the top priority, they would randomly assign each student in the County to a different school each year, and they have not done that nor would that be consistent with Policy FAA.

While there were no question about buses, how exactly do you think MCPS is going to drag kids to schools farther from home? They're going to use buses. And sure, no one in MoCo is going to say they don't care about diversity at all. They have to at least pretend they they value it. But "somewhat" isn't strong support is it? Meanwhile, everyone strongly supports proximity and stability which are directly at odds with diversity because of where people live. And no one wants to put their kid on a bus just to virtue signal.

MCPS already buses over 2/3 of students. If you want fewer kids put on the bus, you should start advocating for more crossing guards, more sidewalks, and more safe places for kids to cross.

It's almost like riding a bus to the school closest to home and riding a bus past several other schools to a school a lot farther from home just so white progressives can feel like white saviors are two different things.

And yet, for the kid on the bus, a bus ride is a bus ride. Whatever you are mad at, it's not buses.

No one is mad at buses. But families whose kids get bused to schools father from home are mad at progressives who are obsessed with skin color.

Since schools aren't built in the geographic center of each boundary, there will always be students who go to a school farther from home than another school is. In some very built-up parts of the county, there may even be one or two more schools closer. MCPS has to decide which kids get those longer bus rides, regardless of anyone's griping.

This will not change unless we tear down all the schools and rebuild them with exacting distances - which will last until housing patterns change again.

And, at some point its understandable, but for the far away families who will literally pass one school to go to another is silly.

Hmm. Maybe they should do a boundary study to look at alternative options.

As long as diversity is the top factor, a boundary study will only make things worse.

Great. Since diversity is just one of four factors, we're all good!

It's the top factor so it prescribes busing.

You are spreading misinformation.

I wish that was true. Unfortunately, back in 2018, some dishonest BOE members elevated demographics/diversity to the top factor in the boundary policy in order to "make the policy more consistent with our progressive values in Montgomery County."

That was misinformation in 2018. Now it's 2023, and you are still spreading the same misinformation, for reasons I am unable to imagine.

Why do you think the language was changed? It was changed to force future Bs of E to implement busing. Jack Smith said that the language change making diversity the top factor would box in future boards of Ed into boundary decisions they might not want. The BOE member who made these changes said she wanted them boxed in because busing for diversity was 8n line with MoCo progressive values.

If it was (which it wasn't), it didn't work.

There's video of the exchange I just posted. That was the intent and it didn't work because A) massive pushback including a boundary analysis showing 95% of the county rejects busing and B) COVID. We'll see what the Woodward study brings.

Dude. Everyone except you has already seen what all of the other studies have brought.

You: The sky is falling
Sky: Does not fall
You: The sky is falling
Sky: Does not fall
You: The sky is falling
Sky: Does not fall
You: The sky is falling
Sky: Does not fall

Did any of those studies involve 8 high schools?

The policy is the policy, regardless of how many schools are being studied. And the past five studies have proven that your understanding of the policy was incorrect.

You're not very good at this. The past 5 studies were tiny and, therefore, didn't provide much opportunity for busing like what happened in the Clarksburg / Seneca Valley study. The Woodward study will be massive by comparison, spanning 7 or 8 high schools which provides a lot of opportunity for diversity busing. The boundary policy mandates busing if schools aren't diverse enough.

No it does not. It mandates nothing.

Unfortunately it does. That's why the pro-busers on the BOE changed the boundary policy to prioritize diversity.

I guess that's why Darnestown ES was rezoned to Seneca Valley. Oh wait, it wasn't! Even though that option would have prioritized the demographics factor. How about that. And why wasn't it? Because according to Jack Smith it was too far away, which would go against the proximity factor, and the busing would also cost too much money and be bad for the environment. Therefore the demographics factor was in fact not the highest priority, for several sensible reasons. So despite what you keep repeating, there is no mandate to prioritize diversity.

Diversity was prioritized more that it should have been. But the new boundary policy forced the BOE's hand and a lot of Clarksburg kids were rezoned to schools much farther from home.

That's up to the superintendent and the board, not you.

Ummm... citizens are allowed to critique the actions of a government agency.

At the ballot box mainly they keep electing a board that prioritizes diversity. The people have been heard!

Cry havoc and let slip the diversity busses or desegregation!

And yet the voters keep reelecting Board members that actually use all four factors regardless of any policy statements.

There hasn't been an opportunity to do busing since the policy was altered to prioritize diversity. The Woodward study will involve 7 or 8 high schools. The Crown study will involve almost as many. That's a lot of opportunity for busing that the BOE won't be able to pass up.

There are so many opportunities to improve diversity and reduce busing just by eliminating the decades old gerrymandered boundaries setup to segregate the rich and poor.

There certainly are a few places where this can be done. But for the most part, increasing diversity will also increase distance aka busing.

[Anonymous]

If the east county wants bussing so bad let’s ship their kids next door to PG to help out over there. I bet they would never while ignoring the hypocrisy that they too paid a small premium to get into entry level MoCo so they too could enjoy the benefits of economic segregation, that results in racial segregation. All while it burns their britches that the nicer parts of MoCo view them as they view their neighbors to the east.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the east county wants bussing so bad let’s ship their kids next door to PG to help out over there. I bet they would never while ignoring the hypocrisy that they too paid a small premium to get into entry level MoCo so they too could enjoy the benefits of economic segregation, that results in racial segregation. All while it burns their britches that the nicer parts of MoCo view them as they view their neighbors to the east.

Wow you really got them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the east county wants bussing so bad let’s ship their kids next door to PG to help out over there. I bet they would never while ignoring the hypocrisy that they too paid a small premium to get into entry level MoCo so they too could enjoy the benefits of economic segregation, that results in racial segregation. All while it burns their britches that the nicer parts of MoCo view them as they view their neighbors to the east.

The whole point of MoCo busing is to harm W school families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the east county wants bussing so bad let’s ship their kids next door to PG to help out over there. I bet they would never while ignoring the hypocrisy that they too paid a small premium to get into entry level MoCo so they too could enjoy the benefits of economic segregation, that results in racial segregation. All while it burns their britches that the nicer parts of MoCo view them as they view their neighbors to the east.

The whole point of MoCo busing is to harm W school families.

Our kids are going to harm yours? Sure, maybe with better grades and behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the east county wants bussing so bad let’s ship their kids next door to PG to help out over there. I bet they would never while ignoring the hypocrisy that they too paid a small premium to get into entry level MoCo so they too could enjoy the benefits of economic segregation, that results in racial segregation. All while it burns their britches that the nicer parts of MoCo view them as they view their neighbors to the east.

Wow you really got them :roll:

So send you middle class kid to a struggling PG school then. The people have spoken and value diversity right? Or are you too busy looking up with jealousy and distain to realize that there is a whole lot under the middle too. Or are you only angling to bus the kids you don’t want at your local school somewhere else for your benefit. Nobody wants their kids bussed far away, but somebody else’s kids from the low income apt building off University Blvd to a school you couldn’t afford, that sounds like a win win right?

Key the Woodside Park parents who love Einstein until they think someone is listening to their cry’s to be rezoned to BCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the east county wants bussing so bad let’s ship their kids next door to PG to help out over there. I bet they would never while ignoring the hypocrisy that they too paid a small premium to get into entry level MoCo so they too could enjoy the benefits of economic segregation, that results in racial segregation. All while it burns their britches that the nicer parts of MoCo view them as they view their neighbors to the east.

The whole point of MoCo busing is to harm W school families.

Our kids are going to harm yours? Sure, maybe with better grades and behavior.

What?

[Anonymous]

Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Most area public schools are at or above 40% (or will be soon) which is acceptable for most middle and upper middle class parents. At 60% and above for some parents it raises concerns about where resources are allocated. At 80% and above, upper middle class families tend to avoid moving to those neighborhoods altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the east county wants bussing so bad let’s ship their kids next door to PG to help out over there. I bet they would never while ignoring the hypocrisy that they too paid a small premium to get into entry level MoCo so they too could enjoy the benefits of economic segregation, that results in racial segregation. All while it burns their britches that the nicer parts of MoCo view them as they view their neighbors to the east.

Wow you really got them :roll:

So send you middle class kid to a struggling PG school then. The people have spoken and value diversity right? Or are you too busy looking up with jealousy and distain to realize that there is a whole lot under the middle too. Or are you only angling to bus the kids you don’t want at your local school somewhere else for your benefit. Nobody wants their kids bussed far away, but somebody else’s kids from the low income apt building off University Blvd to a school you couldn’t afford, that sounds like a win win right?

Key the Woodside Park parents who love Einstein until they think someone is listening to their cry’s to be rezoned to BCC.

^^^another person who believes homeowners buy the public school along with the property

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

If you look at academic performance metrics that MCPS makes available, you can see top schools have still been going strong, even through COVID. These schools are still excellent. If MCPS makes deliberate changes which end up tanking these metrics, they might end up making a more drastic transformation of the educational landscape than they foresaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a whole lot of people already have those perceptions now.

If you look at academic performance metrics that MCPS makes available, you can see top schools have still been going strong, even through COVID. These schools are still excellent. If MCPS makes deliberate changes which end up tanking these metrics, they might end up making a more drastic transformation of the educational landscape than they foresaw.

I wouldn't say they're excellent per se, but they have fewer low-income students dragging down their test averages because of the historically redlined boundaries. Even if they were magically more diverse tomorrow, the same kids who are already there would do exactly the same because that's more of a function of the HHI and parental education level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity metrics aside, the bottom line for many parents in many of the highest performing MCPS schools is that if after redistricting, they believe:

- There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops

Then some proportion of parents will lose confidence in the school system and put their kids in private. This could potentially snowball as performance metrics continue to decline due to higher performers leaving the system.

It's a challenge for MCPS because there only needs to be a perception that this is true for things to get out of hand.

"There are significantly more classroom disruptions than there were pre-redistricting
- Students feel less safe than they did pre-redistricting
- Academic performance drops"

This is all true is it not? I mean, these are the reasons that pro-busers want busing, to spread some of the poverty around which (in their minds) will lessen these issues at the poorest schools. Except that's not going to happen. Schools start to go downhill at 20% farms. At 40% a school is doomed. So people at a 10% farms school don't want 20% added to their school and they definitely don't want their kid bused to a 40% school.

Last I knew the county's average farms rate was around 35%. You may want to move elsewhere.