College Football--Big Ten Expansion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think only FSU is safe. All the other ACC teams may be stuck which they all are anyway until 2036. Uva and Unc have small alumni numbers, poor tv ratings and state political issues with larger schools in the same state. They definitely have less value than Stanford and the San Francisco/ No Cal market. Clemson splits a small state and has low alumni numbers. Maryland was the only school that is a solitary flagship in its state, inside the beltway of a huge media market and has huge alumni numbers. All the other schools besides FSU ( not the only school but an enormous state/population and large alumni numbers ) have issues.

UNC is coveted by the Big Ten Conference as it gets the Big Ten into new recruiting territory, solid athletic department, excellent academics, and same viewership for football as Stanford, but much more popular in basketball.

Only a few insiders really know the Big Ten Conference's target schools in the ACC if the ACC breaks up. Possible ACC target schools include UNC, U Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, & Virginia.

UNC may be coveted by the Big Ten presidents but you have to keep in mind that FOX and ESPN are paying the bills for these conferences. FOX pays the bills for the BIG and wants to get into the southeast and wants football. FSU will get an invite before UNC.

ESPN is handcuffed because of their financial problems. They do not want to lose the ACC or the west coast entirely. They also do not want ND in the BIG. ND wants more money and independence. This is why ESPN and ND are trying to pair Cal and Stanford with the ACC, possibly even with SMU and/or even NAVY. ND may even commit to more games in the ACC.

However, it is not going to be enough.

The GOR is not iron clad. It will be messy and expensive. FSU and others may not declare by August 15th but that will only be because they are getting a war chest together and to build legislative support for sovereign immunity legislation, etc.....

The critical date is to do it by 2026 when the football playoffs will be renegotiated and the money gap between the ACC and BIG/SEC grows substantially. It may even be beneficial to stay in the ACC for a couple of more years as it is a much easier path to the playoff.

Basketball does matter but not as much as football. Once football is resolved they will turn their attention to taking basketball out of the hands of the NCAA. Why let the NCAA control and keep all that money?

What is: "sovereign immunity legislation"?

Great question.

Sovereign Immunity means that the king does no wrong so that one cannot sue the federal or state government unless the federal or state government says that you can sue it under certain types of claims.

In this instance, FSU may want the state of Florida to protect it from being sued by the ACC if FSU leaves the conference.

With all due respect there is no such thing. Commerce would be chaos if any state could do this. No state can pass legislation to get out of a contract. It just is not a thing.

If FSU gives notice on Tuesday, ACC expands that day. If they do not give notice then things can stay.

Incorrect.

Some states have waived sovereign immunity in certain circumstances, but it varies by state.

Indian reservations in the US also have sovereign immunity.

This is not right and just think about it. If the Florida legistature could pass a law that cancels a valid contract it entered into, then no one would contract with Florida. Even is this was right, various equitiable doctrines would prevent it from happening. Remember, in the GOR each signer represented that they had the power to sign and that there was nothing that would prevent the assignment of rights, then or in the future.

And this would not help Clemson in any event. So they would be stuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://sportskeeda.com/college-football/florida-state-sec-gets-validation-cfb-insider-amid-rumors-possible-acc-fallout

Article states that the grant-of-rights may not be as big of an issue as expected if FSU moves from ACC to SEC since ESPN pays both the ACC & the SEC for broadcast media rights.

The GOR is between the schools and the ACC. ESPN has an agreement with the ACC. The ACC still owns FSU's media rights is FSU leaves. That means any money from ESPN goes to the ACC for FSU whereever they are located. FSU would then get their ACC share.

That is your opinion.

FSU might argue that the $120 million exit fee covers the GOR or they may work out a deal for a settlement.

As has been debated here endlessly, the GOR by its terms is separate from the exit fee. The GOR was the sale until 2036 of the schools' media rights. There is no argument that the exit fee covers the GOR. There are not two sides to that point.

On a deal or settlement, sure. I could see a deal where only FSU left, they flip their vote so Cal, Stanford, and SMU come in and the ACC gets 200-300 million. I think a bunch of the schools would do that deal today. But that requires no one else leaving. Otherwise the schools that will not have any place to go will not agree. And you need all of them to amend the GOR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think only FSU is safe. All the other ACC teams may be stuck which they all are anyway until 2036. Uva and Unc have small alumni numbers, poor tv ratings and state political issues with larger schools in the same state. They definitely have less value than Stanford and the San Francisco/ No Cal market. Clemson splits a small state and has low alumni numbers. Maryland was the only school that is a solitary flagship in its state, inside the beltway of a huge media market and has huge alumni numbers. All the other schools besides FSU ( not the only school but an enormous state/population and large alumni numbers ) have issues.

UNC is coveted by the Big Ten Conference as it gets the Big Ten into new recruiting territory, solid athletic department, excellent academics, and same viewership for football as Stanford, but much more popular in basketball.

Only a few insiders really know the Big Ten Conference's target schools in the ACC if the ACC breaks up. Possible ACC target schools include UNC, U Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, & Virginia.

UNC may be coveted by the Big Ten presidents but you have to keep in mind that FOX and ESPN are paying the bills for these conferences. FOX pays the bills for the BIG and wants to get into the southeast and wants football. FSU will get an invite before UNC.

ESPN is handcuffed because of their financial problems. They do not want to lose the ACC or the west coast entirely. They also do not want ND in the BIG. ND wants more money and independence. This is why ESPN and ND are trying to pair Cal and Stanford with the ACC, possibly even with SMU and/or even NAVY. ND may even commit to more games in the ACC.

However, it is not going to be enough.

The GOR is not iron clad. It will be messy and expensive. FSU and others may not declare by August 15th but that will only be because they are getting a war chest together and to build legislative support for sovereign immunity legislation, etc.....

The critical date is to do it by 2026 when the football playoffs will be renegotiated and the money gap between the ACC and BIG/SEC grows substantially. It may even be beneficial to stay in the ACC for a couple of more years as it is a much easier path to the playoff.

Basketball does matter but not as much as football. Once football is resolved they will turn their attention to taking basketball out of the hands of the NCAA. Why let the NCAA control and keep all that money?

What is: "sovereign immunity legislation"?

Great question.

Sovereign Immunity means that the king does no wrong so that one cannot sue the federal or state government unless the federal or state government says that you can sue it under certain types of claims.

In this instance, FSU may want the state of Florida to protect it from being sued by the ACC if FSU leaves the conference.

With all due respect there is no such thing. Commerce would be chaos if any state could do this. No state can pass legislation to get out of a contract. It just is not a thing.

If FSU gives notice on Tuesday, ACC expands that day. If they do not give notice then things can stay.

Incorrect.

Some states have waived sovereign immunity in certain circumstances, but it varies by state.

Indian reservations in the US also have sovereign immunity.

This is not right and just think about it. If the Florida legistature could pass a law that cancels a valid contract it entered into, then no one would contract with Florida. Even is this was right, various equitiable doctrines would prevent it from happening. Remember, in the GOR each signer represented that they had the power to sign and that there was nothing that would prevent the assignment of rights, then or in the future.

And this would not help Clemson in any event. So they would be stuck.

Clemson is a public--not private--university.

Don't need to think about it; just research the law for the particular state & jurisdiction.

Also, please google sovereign immunity & read up a bit. Several law firms have readily available information on the internet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://sportskeeda.com/college-football/florida-state-sec-gets-validation-cfb-insider-amid-rumors-possible-acc-fallout

Article states that the grant-of-rights may not be as big of an issue as expected if FSU moves from ACC to SEC since ESPN pays both the ACC & the SEC for broadcast media rights.

The GOR is between the schools and the ACC. ESPN has an agreement with the ACC. The ACC still owns FSU's media rights is FSU leaves. That means any money from ESPN goes to the ACC for FSU whereever they are located. FSU would then get their ACC share.

That is your opinion.

FSU might argue that the $120 million exit fee covers the GOR or they may work out a deal for a settlement.

As has been debated here endlessly, the GOR by its terms is separate from the exit fee. The GOR was the sale until 2036 of the schools' media rights. There is no argument that the exit fee covers the GOR. There are not two sides to that point.

On a deal or settlement, sure. I could see a deal where only FSU left, they flip their vote so Cal, Stanford, and SMU come in and the ACC gets 200-300 million. I think a bunch of the schools would do that deal today. But that requires no one else leaving. Otherwise the schools that will not have any place to go will not agree. And you need all of them to amend the GOR.

The real issue is whether or not there are at least two lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Big 10 should add Stanford, ND, Cal, Duke and UNC

[Anonymous]

Maybe UVA too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Big 10 should add Stanford, ND, Cal, Duke and UNC

Agree regarding Notre Dame and Stanford and UNC, but Duke & Cal have little sports media viewership value and Cal has serious financial issues in its athletics department.

Georgia Tech has value due to Atlanta metro media market & fertile Georgia football recruiting grounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Big 10 should add Stanford, ND, Cal, Duke and UNC

Not happening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big 10 should add Stanford, ND, Cal, Duke and UNC

Not happening

Reasonable assessment. Nevertheless, I think that FSU will file with the ACC on Monday or Tuesday notifying the ACC that it is leaving the conference. (FSU didn't bring in JP Morgan Chase & Sixth Street for nothing.) FSU's notice is likely to lead to further movement by other teams switching conferences.

If FSU does not file any notice of intent to depart the ACC, then Stanford's best hope may be with the Big Ten Conference--at least I hope so. Stanford has done just about everything within reason to generate an invitation from the Big Ten Conference.

If FSU does file, then the ACC may reconsider Stanford, Cal, & SMU in my opinion.

The ACC currently has 14 members plus Notre Dame. The 14 member schools in the ACC are:

FSU
Clemson
U Miami
UNC
NC State
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Georgia Tech
Duke
Wake Forest
Louisville
Syracuse
Boston College
U Pittsburgh

The first seven schools listed above want out of the ACC.

[Anonymous]

SMU (Southern Methodist University) in Dallas, Texas is willing to forego 5 to 7 years of media payout money in an effort to get into a Power 4 Conference:

https://dmagazine.com/sports/2023/08/smu-mustangs-acc/

Another article summarizing ACC status regarding expansion:

https://si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football/college-football-expansion-acc-votes-on-2-schools-per-reports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think only FSU is safe. All the other ACC teams may be stuck which they all are anyway until 2036. Uva and Unc have small alumni numbers, poor tv ratings and state political issues with larger schools in the same state. They definitely have less value than Stanford and the San Francisco/ No Cal market. Clemson splits a small state and has low alumni numbers. Maryland was the only school that is a solitary flagship in its state, inside the beltway of a huge media market and has huge alumni numbers. All the other schools besides FSU ( not the only school but an enormous state/population and large alumni numbers ) have issues.

UNC is coveted by the Big Ten Conference as it gets the Big Ten into new recruiting territory, solid athletic department, excellent academics, and same viewership for football as Stanford, but much more popular in basketball.

Only a few insiders really know the Big Ten Conference's target schools in the ACC if the ACC breaks up. Possible ACC target schools include UNC, U Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, & Virginia.

UNC may be coveted by the Big Ten presidents but you have to keep in mind that FOX and ESPN are paying the bills for these conferences. FOX pays the bills for the BIG and wants to get into the southeast and wants football. FSU will get an invite before UNC.

ESPN is handcuffed because of their financial problems. They do not want to lose the ACC or the west coast entirely. They also do not want ND in the BIG. ND wants more money and independence. This is why ESPN and ND are trying to pair Cal and Stanford with the ACC, possibly even with SMU and/or even NAVY. ND may even commit to more games in the ACC.

However, it is not going to be enough.

The GOR is not iron clad. It will be messy and expensive. FSU and others may not declare by August 15th but that will only be because they are getting a war chest together and to build legislative support for sovereign immunity legislation, etc.....

The critical date is to do it by 2026 when the football playoffs will be renegotiated and the money gap between the ACC and BIG/SEC grows substantially. It may even be beneficial to stay in the ACC for a couple of more years as it is a much easier path to the playoff.

Basketball does matter but not as much as football. Once football is resolved they will turn their attention to taking basketball out of the hands of the NCAA. Why let the NCAA control and keep all that money?

What is: "sovereign immunity legislation"?

Great question.

Sovereign Immunity means that the king does no wrong so that one cannot sue the federal or state government unless the federal or state government says that you can sue it under certain types of claims.

In this instance, FSU may want the state of Florida to protect it from being sued by the ACC if FSU leaves the conference.

With all due respect there is no such thing. Commerce would be chaos if any state could do this. No state can pass legislation to get out of a contract. It just is not a thing.

If FSU gives notice on Tuesday, ACC expands that day. If they do not give notice then things can stay.

Even the federal government can’t assert sovereign immunity to avoid liability for contracts for good and services. This doesn’t apply to things that are a matter of policy, e.g., Social Security, but if the government signs a contract to buy widgets (or broadcast services) they can’t weasel out based on “sovereign immunity.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think only FSU is safe. All the other ACC teams may be stuck which they all are anyway until 2036. Uva and Unc have small alumni numbers, poor tv ratings and state political issues with larger schools in the same state. They definitely have less value than Stanford and the San Francisco/ No Cal market. Clemson splits a small state and has low alumni numbers. Maryland was the only school that is a solitary flagship in its state, inside the beltway of a huge media market and has huge alumni numbers. All the other schools besides FSU ( not the only school but an enormous state/population and large alumni numbers ) have issues.

UNC is coveted by the Big Ten Conference as it gets the Big Ten into new recruiting territory, solid athletic department, excellent academics, and same viewership for football as Stanford, but much more popular in basketball.

Only a few insiders really know the Big Ten Conference's target schools in the ACC if the ACC breaks up. Possible ACC target schools include UNC, U Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, & Virginia.

UNC may be coveted by the Big Ten presidents but you have to keep in mind that FOX and ESPN are paying the bills for these conferences. FOX pays the bills for the BIG and wants to get into the southeast and wants football. FSU will get an invite before UNC.

ESPN is handcuffed because of their financial problems. They do not want to lose the ACC or the west coast entirely. They also do not want ND in the BIG. ND wants more money and independence. This is why ESPN and ND are trying to pair Cal and Stanford with the ACC, possibly even with SMU and/or even NAVY. ND may even commit to more games in the ACC.

However, it is not going to be enough.

The GOR is not iron clad. It will be messy and expensive. FSU and others may not declare by August 15th but that will only be because they are getting a war chest together and to build legislative support for sovereign immunity legislation, etc.....

The critical date is to do it by 2026 when the football playoffs will be renegotiated and the money gap between the ACC and BIG/SEC grows substantially. It may even be beneficial to stay in the ACC for a couple of more years as it is a much easier path to the playoff.

Basketball does matter but not as much as football. Once football is resolved they will turn their attention to taking basketball out of the hands of the NCAA. Why let the NCAA control and keep all that money?

What is: "sovereign immunity legislation"?

Great question.

Sovereign Immunity means that the king does no wrong so that one cannot sue the federal or state government unless the federal or state government says that you can sue it under certain types of claims.

In this instance, FSU may want the state of Florida to protect it from being sued by the ACC if FSU leaves the conference.

With all due respect there is no such thing. Commerce would be chaos if any state could do this. No state can pass legislation to get out of a contract. It just is not a thing.

If FSU gives notice on Tuesday, ACC expands that day. If they do not give notice then things can stay.

Even the federal government can’t assert sovereign immunity to avoid liability for contracts for good and services. This doesn’t apply to things that are a matter of policy, e.g., Social Security, but if the government signs a contract to buy widgets (or broadcast services) they can’t weasel out based on “sovereign immunity.”

You need a specific situation because there are so many variables in contracts and under the law. In order to deal with sovereign immunity regarding many contracts with the federal government, Congress has passed several pieces of legislation as well as provided administrative procedures to seek relief.

The federal government and state governments must waive sovereign immunity in order to be sued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think only FSU is safe. All the other ACC teams may be stuck which they all are anyway until 2036. Uva and Unc have small alumni numbers, poor tv ratings and state political issues with larger schools in the same state. They definitely have less value than Stanford and the San Francisco/ No Cal market. Clemson splits a small state and has low alumni numbers. Maryland was the only school that is a solitary flagship in its state, inside the beltway of a huge media market and has huge alumni numbers. All the other schools besides FSU ( not the only school but an enormous state/population and large alumni numbers ) have issues.

UNC is coveted by the Big Ten Conference as it gets the Big Ten into new recruiting territory, solid athletic department, excellent academics, and same viewership for football as Stanford, but much more popular in basketball.

Only a few insiders really know the Big Ten Conference's target schools in the ACC if the ACC breaks up. Possible ACC target schools include UNC, U Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, & Virginia.

UNC may be coveted by the Big Ten presidents but you have to keep in mind that FOX and ESPN are paying the bills for these conferences. FOX pays the bills for the BIG and wants to get into the southeast and wants football. FSU will get an invite before UNC.

ESPN is handcuffed because of their financial problems. They do not want to lose the ACC or the west coast entirely. They also do not want ND in the BIG. ND wants more money and independence. This is why ESPN and ND are trying to pair Cal and Stanford with the ACC, possibly even with SMU and/or even NAVY. ND may even commit to more games in the ACC.

However, it is not going to be enough.

The GOR is not iron clad. It will be messy and expensive. FSU and others may not declare by August 15th but that will only be because they are getting a war chest together and to build legislative support for sovereign immunity legislation, etc.....

The critical date is to do it by 2026 when the football playoffs will be renegotiated and the money gap between the ACC and BIG/SEC grows substantially. It may even be beneficial to stay in the ACC for a couple of more years as it is a much easier path to the playoff.

Basketball does matter but not as much as football. Once football is resolved they will turn their attention to taking basketball out of the hands of the NCAA. Why let the NCAA control and keep all that money?

What is: "sovereign immunity legislation"?

Great question.

Sovereign Immunity means that the king does no wrong so that one cannot sue the federal or state government unless the federal or state government says that you can sue it under certain types of claims.

In this instance, FSU may want the state of Florida to protect it from being sued by the ACC if FSU leaves the conference.

With all due respect there is no such thing. Commerce would be chaos if any state could do this. No state can pass legislation to get out of a contract. It just is not a thing.

If FSU gives notice on Tuesday, ACC expands that day. If they do not give notice then things can stay.

Incorrect.

Some states have waived sovereign immunity in certain circumstances, but it varies by state.

Indian reservations in the US also have sovereign immunity.

This is not right and just think about it. If the Florida legistature could pass a law that cancels a valid contract it entered into, then no one would contract with Florida. Even is this was right, various equitiable doctrines would prevent it from happening. Remember, in the GOR each signer represented that they had the power to sign and that there was nothing that would prevent the assignment of rights, then or in the future.

And this would not help Clemson in any event. So they would be stuck.

Clemson is a public--not private--university.

Don't need to think about it; just research the law for the particular state & jurisdiction.

Also, please google sovereign immunity & read up a bit. Several law firms have readily available information on the internet.

I did. It is unlikely that sovereign immunity applies in contract cases at all -- when the state decides to contract it waives any immunity it had. And it does not apply outside of the state. So even if it applied in Florida for FSU it will not apply in North Carolina. In joining the ACC each team agreed that all disputes would be heard in NC state courts and that NC law would apply.

[Anonymous]

If the B1G wanted Stanford, Stanford would already be admitted to the conference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think only FSU is safe. All the other ACC teams may be stuck which they all are anyway until 2036. Uva and Unc have small alumni numbers, poor tv ratings and state political issues with larger schools in the same state. They definitely have less value than Stanford and the San Francisco/ No Cal market. Clemson splits a small state and has low alumni numbers. Maryland was the only school that is a solitary flagship in its state, inside the beltway of a huge media market and has huge alumni numbers. All the other schools besides FSU ( not the only school but an enormous state/population and large alumni numbers ) have issues.

UNC is coveted by the Big Ten Conference as it gets the Big Ten into new recruiting territory, solid athletic department, excellent academics, and same viewership for football as Stanford, but much more popular in basketball.

Only a few insiders really know the Big Ten Conference's target schools in the ACC if the ACC breaks up. Possible ACC target schools include UNC, U Miami, FSU, Georgia Tech, & Virginia.

UNC may be coveted by the Big Ten presidents but you have to keep in mind that FOX and ESPN are paying the bills for these conferences. FOX pays the bills for the BIG and wants to get into the southeast and wants football. FSU will get an invite before UNC.

ESPN is handcuffed because of their financial problems. They do not want to lose the ACC or the west coast entirely. They also do not want ND in the BIG. ND wants more money and independence. This is why ESPN and ND are trying to pair Cal and Stanford with the ACC, possibly even with SMU and/or even NAVY. ND may even commit to more games in the ACC.

However, it is not going to be enough.

The GOR is not iron clad. It will be messy and expensive. FSU and others may not declare by August 15th but that will only be because they are getting a war chest together and to build legislative support for sovereign immunity legislation, etc.....

The critical date is to do it by 2026 when the football playoffs will be renegotiated and the money gap between the ACC and BIG/SEC grows substantially. It may even be beneficial to stay in the ACC for a couple of more years as it is a much easier path to the playoff.

Basketball does matter but not as much as football. Once football is resolved they will turn their attention to taking basketball out of the hands of the NCAA. Why let the NCAA control and keep all that money?

What is: "sovereign immunity legislation"?

Great question.

Sovereign Immunity means that the king does no wrong so that one cannot sue the federal or state government unless the federal or state government says that you can sue it under certain types of claims.

In this instance, FSU may want the state of Florida to protect it from being sued by the ACC if FSU leaves the conference.

With all due respect there is no such thing. Commerce would be chaos if any state could do this. No state can pass legislation to get out of a contract. It just is not a thing.

If FSU gives notice on Tuesday, ACC expands that day. If they do not give notice then things can stay.

Incorrect.

Some states have waived sovereign immunity in certain circumstances, but it varies by state.

Indian reservations in the US also have sovereign immunity.

This is not right and just think about it. If the Florida legistature could pass a law that cancels a valid contract it entered into, then no one would contract with Florida. Even is this was right, various equitiable doctrines would prevent it from happening. Remember, in the GOR each signer represented that they had the power to sign and that there was nothing that would prevent the assignment of rights, then or in the future.

And this would not help Clemson in any event. So they would be stuck.

Clemson is a public--not private--university.

Don't need to think about it; just research the law for the particular state & jurisdiction.

Also, please google sovereign immunity & read up a bit. Several law firms have readily available information on the internet.

I did. It is unlikely that sovereign immunity applies in contract cases at all -- when the state decides to contract it waives any immunity it had. And it does not apply outside of the state. So even if it applied in Florida for FSU it will not apply in North Carolina. In joining the ACC each team agreed that all disputes would be heard in NC state courts and that NC law would apply.

Absolutely incorrect. The state must waive its sovereign immunity in order to be sued. Usually, a waiver is done by legislation, but a waiver could also occur by the state's failure to assert this affirmative defense.

Please read this before spreading any further misinformation:

https://naag.org/attorney-general-journal/state-sovereign-immunity/