Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I don’t agree with your statement. Terrorism is not a chosen way of life for anyone, who doesn’t want to enjoy a nice, peaceful life with their friends and families and veg out on the tv watching Netflix? Sure, we always have loners and weirdos in every society but majority people want a normal life and it’s a lazy argument to claim otherwise.

Where you are dishonest is the fact that Israel has been oppressing Palestinians for 75 years but they can’t understand why aren’t the Palestinians happy with the oppression? I would be all for Israelis if they were an honest party on this conflict, unfortunately they have played a terrible role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I see. How would you like Palestinians to respond to land grab, water theft, settler violence and restrictions in human rights?

What non-violent, effective ways of resistance do you think are available to them?

There are multiple reports of 7+ Palestinian communities in the West Bank being completely depopulated due to settler violence, theft, killing of livestock and demolition of housing and equipment. Put plainly, these people are fleeing armed group of settler thugs who wreck violence as the IDF watches on.

How would you like Palestinians to resist this? Tell me.

[Anonymous]

Yesterday someone had written to say any nation would have done what Israel has done in response to 10/7.
It occurred to me then to remind myself of the 1862 Sioux Uprising. BTW I grew up in Minnesota, and in 6th grade (1966) we were taught history from a book called "Minnesota, Star of the North." By 1968 schools were banning it, and my senior year humanities class decided to explore the book we had been taught from and its extreme racism. (It introduced me to the term "blanket Indians," explaining that they pretended to become Christian and civilized but underneath were still "savages.") The 1862 Sioux Uprising , Little Big Horn, Wounded Knee and Gaza are a tale of how, as they say, history does not repeat, but it does rhyme. Things the US did (including turning a blind eye as well as actually supporting illegal settler encroachment on territory those "ignorant savages" didn't know what to do with anyway, with God and Manifest Destiny lighting our path) are shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

I see. What would you like the West Bankers to give up that they haven't already?

The rest of the west bank

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

I see. What would you like the West Bankers to give up that they haven't already?

The rest of the west bank

Bezalel, please log in with your user name and password.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yesterday someone had written to say any nation would have done what Israel has done in response to 10/7.
It occurred to me then to remind myself of the 1862 Sioux Uprising. BTW I grew up in Minnesota, and in 6th grade (1966) we were taught history from a book called "Minnesota, Star of the North." By 1968 schools were banning it, and my senior year humanities class decided to explore the book we had been taught from and its extreme racism. (It introduced me to the term "blanket Indians," explaining that they pretended to become Christian and civilized but underneath were still "savages.") The 1862 Sioux Uprising , Little Big Horn, Wounded Knee and Gaza are a tale of how, as they say, history does not repeat, but it does rhyme. Things the US did (including turning a blind eye as well as actually supporting illegal settler encroachment on territory those "ignorant savages" didn't know what to do with anyway, with God and Manifest Destiny lighting our path) are shameful.

It’s like saying the holocaust is horrifying and doing the exact same thing to Palestinians! Though this time you get to play the part of the one actually doing it.

[Anonymous]

This.

I wish people would understand that BiBi aligned himself with Trump/Kushner/Putin and Iran.

That doesn't make anyone "pro-Hamas" by any stretch of the imagination, but understand the needle the US under the democrats, have to thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I see. How would you like Palestinians to respond to land grab, water theft, settler violence and restrictions in human rights?

What non-violent, effective ways of resistance do you think are available to them?

There are multiple reports of 7+ Palestinian communities in the West Bank being completely depopulated due to settler violence, theft, killing of livestock and demolition of housing and equipment. Put plainly, these people are fleeing armed group of settler thugs who wreck violence as the IDF watches on.

How would you like Palestinians to resist this? Tell me.

There are ways that I would resist and ways that I would not. Generations of Palestinians have chosen a very different way of resisting than I ever would and I do not support it.

[Anonymous]

Was there a deal? Was it, as some in the US administration say, a Hamas counteroffer? Are there two offers on the table or a deal from which the US backed away after seeing Israel’s response?

This is the course of events that my sources with detailed knowledge of negotiations in Cairo and Doha gave me…

… was in Cairo for two days and then moved to Doha. He was expected to travel to Israel but delayed his departure to wait for Hamas’s response on Monday.

There were two minor textual changes to the document that the Egyptians had sent to the Hamas delegation at the airport, but they were regarded as not crucial to reaching an agreement. Middle East Eye has seen both versions.

Washington's role
In the meantime, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu became nervous about what the Egyptians and Qataris would do with the presence of Burns in both cities.

Netanyahu said Israel would proceed with the operation in Rafah regardless of whether there was agreement about a hostage and prisoner exchange…

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/rafah-attack-defeat-sight-how-can-netanyahu-declare-victory

So there was a deal done with US approval but when Netanyahu rejected it Biden quickly supported Netanyahu.

[Anonymous]

After seven months of bombardment that has reduced much of Gaza to rubble, how is it that Hamas has not been cowed into submission? The Israeli army has repeatedly said it has wiped out most of Hamas’s fighters, and that only four battalions are left within Rafah.

I put this to a source with knowledge of Hamas’s military capabilities. “Everywhere where the Israeli army withdraws, Hamas reappears: in the north, in the centre and in the south,” he replied. “Israeli troops occupy the Netzarim Corridor, but their checkpoints there are increasingly vulnerable, which is why they made an offer to withdraw from that line in negotiations.”

Some military experts in Israel agree and are prepared to break ranks. Reserve Major General Yitzhak Barik wrote in Maariv: “Bibi knows very well that we are in a militarily deadlocked situation … After the army took control of 80 percent of the Gaza Strip (except Rafah), it withdrew its forces from it because it had no other forces to replace them. The result was that Hamas returned en masse to all the areas left by the Israeli army and regained control over them.”…

…. There is now a limitless supply of recruits for Hamas - tens of thousands - after seven months of fighting. This wave of wartime support overcomes a bitter history of political competition between Fatah and Hamas.

There is also a limitless supply of explosives. So many explosives have been dropped on Gaza since 7 October that it could take 14 years to clear the territory of unexploded bombs, UN expects said recently. To put that another way: with a failure rate of around 15 percent, the explosive material recovered from bombs and missiles that fail to go off could keep Hamas supplied for a long time to come.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/rafah-attack-defeat-sight-how-can-netanyahu-declare-victory

Just wow! Looks like this Gaza invasion will be both a military and political catastrophe.

[Anonymous]

Wow. That's terrible.

[Anonymous]

I am not much of a Biden supporter but at this point Netanyahu is humiliating Biden as well as the U.S. He really needs to be put in his place.

He is a curse on Israel and has done more damage to Israel than Hamas or Hezbollah can ever possibly imagine. This man needs to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

And Israel has been conducting pogroms and apartheid for those same generations. There is no moral high ground in this blood feud.

The difference is that you support one set of bad acts but not the other. I don't support either side and think they are both to blame for the situation they have found themselves in.

The only way out is to sideline all the bad actors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not much of a Biden supporter but at this point Netanyahu is humiliating Biden as well as the U.S. He really needs to be put in his place.

He is a curse on Israel and has done more damage to Israel than Hamas or Hezbollah can ever possibly imagine. This man needs to go.

+💯

[Anonymous]

Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...