Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I see. How would you like Palestinians to respond to land grab, water theft, settler violence and restrictions in human rights?

What non-violent, effective ways of resistance do you think are available to them?

There are multiple reports of 7+ Palestinian communities in the West Bank being completely depopulated due to settler violence, theft, killing of livestock and demolition of housing and equipment. Put plainly, these people are fleeing armed group of settler thugs who wreck violence as the IDF watches on.

How would you like Palestinians to resist this? Tell me.

There are ways that I would resist and ways that I would not. Generations of Palestinians have chosen a very different way of resisting than I ever would and I do not support it.

LOL. I love it when Americans say "I would OnLy cross the border LEgALly." That is utter BS and intellectually lazy. You mean tell me if your kid was starving, or you were in danger/subject to violence, or your freedom of movement was restricted by staying that you would just apply for a green card and wait 10 years. Riiiiight. Does not pass the sniff test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

Several US presidents have withheld weapons to Israel at different points. Obama tried and Israel went behind his back.

From 2014.

"After that, US-Israeli relations quietly collapsed. The next three paragraphs from the Journal's story are astonishing — particularly the part where Netanyahu commanded that Obama was "not to ever second-guess me again" about the Gaza war..."

https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002033/israel-american-weapons-netanyhau

If you don't think this is a problem....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other sol

ution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

And Israel has been conducting pogroms and apartheid for those same generations. There is no moral high ground in this blood feud.

The difference is that you support one set of bad acts but not the other. I don't support either side and think they are both to blame for the situation they have found themselves in.

The only way out is to sideline all the bad actors.

The difference is that one of them is our ally and the other is no one's ally, certainly not ours. And one of the states was established for several pragmatic and moral reasons, all of which remain applicable today.

As for "sidelining the bad actors", if you mean that the US should remove Netanyahu, then there are some major problems with that idea. And if you mean that the US should remove Iran who is funding and training Hamas, there are some major problems with that idea too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

It’s a total PR stunt. He made sure to provide Israel all weapons necessary for invasion of Rafah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

It’s a total PR stunt. He made sure to provide Israel all weapons necessary for invasion of Rafah.

Correct. Genocide Joe has already made 100 + weapons transfers since Oct 7.

The blood is on his hands

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I see. How would you like Palestinians to respond to land grab, water theft, settler violence and restrictions in human rights?

What non-violent, effective ways of resistance do you think are available to them?

There are multiple reports of 7+ Palestinian communities in the West Bank being completely depopulated due to settler violence, theft, killing of livestock and demolition of housing and equipment. Put plainly, these people are fleeing armed group of settler thugs who wreck violence as the IDF watches on.

How would you like Palestinians to resist this? Tell me.

There are ways that I would resist and ways that I would not. Generations of Palestinians have chosen a very different way of resisting than I ever would and I do not support it.

LOL. I love it when Americans say "I would OnLy cross the border LEgALly." That is utter BS and intellectually lazy. You mean tell me if your kid was starving, or you were in danger/subject to violence, or your freedom of movement was restricted by staying that you would just apply for a green card and wait 10 years. Riiiiight. Does not pass the sniff test.

Cross the border? Where did that come from?

I said I do not support suicide bombers, child soldiers, and indiscriminate rockets into civilian areas, which is what Hamas does. I would not do those things if my kid were starving. There are other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I see. How would you like Palestinians to respond to land grab, water theft, settler violence and restrictions in human rights?

What non-violent, effective ways of resistance do you think are available to them?

There are multiple reports of 7+ Palestinian communities in the West Bank being completely depopulated due to settler violence, theft, killing of livestock and demolition of housing and equipment. Put plainly, these people are fleeing armed group of settler thugs who wreck violence as the IDF watches on.

How would you like Palestinians to resist this? Tell me.

There are ways that I would resist and ways that I would not. Generations of Palestinians have chosen a very different way of resisting than I ever would and I do not support it.

LOL. I love it when Americans say "I would OnLy cross the border LEgALly." That is utter BS and intellectually lazy. You mean tell me if your kid was starving, or you were in danger/subject to violence, or your freedom of movement was restricted by staying that you would just apply for a green card and wait 10 years. Riiiiight. Does not pass the sniff test.

Or.

Orrrrrr


And hear me out here

You stay in your shithole and fix it! Ta da!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

It’s a total PR stunt. He made sure to provide Israel all weapons necessary for invasion of Rafah.

Correct. Genocide Joe has already made 100 + weapons transfers since Oct 7.

The blood is on his hands

Well what are you going to do about it? Point your finger in shame and yell? Who cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biden withholding bombs because of civilian collateral damage reminds me when LBJ was picking bombing locations during Vietnam. Biden continues to bury himself but too stupid to realize it like Johnson did...

It’s a total PR stunt. He made sure to provide Israel all weapons necessary for invasion of Rafah.

Correct. Genocide Joe has already made 100 + weapons transfers since Oct 7.

The blood is on his hands

Well what are you going to do about it? Point your finger in shame and yell? Who cares.

This attitude is going to win people over to your side, power is good but public support is king.

[Anonymous]

^not going to win

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other sol

ution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

And Israel has been conducting pogroms and apartheid for those same generations. There is no moral high ground in this blood feud.

The difference is that you support one set of bad acts but not the other. I don't support either side and think they are both to blame for the situation they have found themselves in.

The only way out is to sideline all the bad actors.

The difference is that one of them is our ally and the other is no one's ally, certainly not ours. And one of the states was established for several pragmatic and moral reasons, all of which remain applicable today.

As for "sidelining the bad actors", if you mean that the US should remove Netanyahu, then there are some major problems with that idea. And if you mean that the US should remove Iran who is funding and training Hamas, there are some major problems with that idea too.

You are living proof of that old truth that "Rules are for Enemies." For our friends, there are no rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I see. How would you like Palestinians to respond to land grab, water theft, settler violence and restrictions in human rights?

What non-violent, effective ways of resistance do you think are available to them?

There are multiple reports of 7+ Palestinian communities in the West Bank being completely depopulated due to settler violence, theft, killing of livestock and demolition of housing and equipment. Put plainly, these people are fleeing armed group of settler thugs who wreck violence as the IDF watches on.

How would you like Palestinians to resist this? Tell me.

There are ways that I would resist and ways that I would not. Generations of Palestinians have chosen a very different way of resisting than I ever would and I do not support it.

LOL. I love it when Americans say "I would OnLy cross the border LEgALly." That is utter BS and intellectually lazy. You mean tell me if your kid was starving, or you were in danger/subject to violence, or your freedom of movement was restricted by staying that you would just apply for a green card and wait 10 years. Riiiiight. Does not pass the sniff test.

Or.

Orrrrrr


And hear me out here

You stay in your shithole and fix it! Ta da!!!!

Ironically, that's kind of the point. They want their shithole back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other sol

ution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

And Israel has been conducting pogroms and apartheid for those same generations. There is no moral high ground in this blood feud.

The difference is that you support one set of bad acts but not the other. I don't support either side and think they are both to blame for the situation they have found themselves in.

The only way out is to sideline all the bad actors.

The difference is that one of them is our ally and the other is no one's ally, certainly not ours. And one of the states was established for several pragmatic and moral reasons, all of which remain applicable today.

As for "sidelining the bad actors", if you mean that the US should remove Netanyahu, then there are some major problems with that idea. And if you mean that the US should remove Iran who is funding and training Hamas, there are some major problems with that idea too.

You are living proof of that old truth that "Rules are for Enemies." For our friends, there are no rules.

I'm really not sure why some people think that the US can or should control Israel. We cannot control other allies and our allies do not control us. But Israel should be different? Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other sol

ution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

And Israel has been conducting pogroms and apartheid for those same generations. There is no moral high ground in this blood feud.

The difference is that you support one set of bad acts but not the other. I don't support either side and think they are both to blame for the situation they have found themselves in.

The only way out is to sideline all the bad actors.

The difference is that one of them is our ally and the other is no one's ally, certainly not ours. And one of the states was established for several pragmatic and moral reasons, all of which remain applicable today.

As for "sidelining the bad actors", if you mean that the US should remove Netanyahu, then there are some major problems with that idea. And if you mean that the US should remove Iran who is funding and training Hamas, there are some major problems with that idea too.

DP Israel is not an ally of the US. It is a protectorate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

I see. How would you like Palestinians to respond to land grab, water theft, settler violence and restrictions in human rights?

What non-violent, effective ways of resistance do you think are available to them?

There are multiple reports of 7+ Palestinian communities in the West Bank being completely depopulated due to settler violence, theft, killing of livestock and demolition of housing and equipment. Put plainly, these people are fleeing armed group of settler thugs who wreck violence as the IDF watches on.

How would you like Palestinians to resist this? Tell me.

There are ways that I would resist and ways that I would not. Generations of Palestinians have chosen a very different way of resisting than I ever would and I do not support it.

LOL. I love it when Americans say "I would OnLy cross the border LEgALly." That is utter BS and intellectually lazy. You mean tell me if your kid was starving, or you were in danger/subject to violence, or your freedom of movement was restricted by staying that you would just apply for a green card and wait 10 years. Riiiiight. Does not pass the sniff test.

Cross the border? Where did that come from?

I said I do not support suicide bombers, child soldiers, and indiscriminate rockets into civilian areas, which is what Hamas does. I would not do those things if my kid were starving. There are other options.

Okay. Your name is Mona and you live in the West Bank farming village. You have four children aged 19 to 4. Two oldest are boys and you worry about them the most. Your younger child's school is half a mile away but your child has to take a 2-hr bus trip to get to it because the checkpoints. The nearest hospital is a mile away but there are four checkpoints between you and the hospital so one time when you really needed to go, you were made to wait for eight hours in the car, and you miscarried before you got to the hospital. The fetus died.

Yesterday a group of armed settlers from the nearest hilltop came to your farm, uprooted your trees, killed twelve sheep and damaged your solar panel. They also threw dirt into your water well. They've set up fire to your livestock pen and said tomorrow it will be your house. They were accompanied by an IDF unit that watched while they did all that. There is no police to complain to for you as the West Bank police has no authority over them. If you resist the settlers, you'll be arrested and tried in Israeli military court, which has a 97% conviction rate for Palestinians. Your oldest son got angry and wanted to throw rocks at the soldiers but you restrained him and reminded him of eight months he was in admin detention with no charge or trial when you didn't even know where he was, and when he came home, he was thirty pounds thinner. You also reminded him of his friend who was shot and killed by the IDF, and no one cared. The parents complained but were told their son was a terrorist and instructed to shut up.

Now I really wanna hear about your options to resist. Tell me. What would Mona do?