Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the Rafah action right now is limited according to the newscast I heard earlier today.

My question: even if no ceasefire, why could Israel not simply hold its position as of before taking over the border and let talks continue?

I assume Hamas has no way of acquiring additional weapons or soldiers, certainly not of any significance. We know Hamas--in terms of the ideas Hamas represents--cannot be totally obliterated. It took what, 600 years for England and Ireland to mostly settle their differences? (Talk about people who won't stop fighting each other.)The Irish during the 70s were not the same individuals who had fought England for centuries, the idea was sustained through generation after generation. The very reason Judaism remains Judaism is because ideas about core identity do not disappear until the people who hold those ideas abandon them.

From that limited action, I saw two children under 10 crushed by rubble and one them had his eye popped out of his skull from the force. The image will haunt me.

I've learned to stay away from footage of that nature. I saw all the videos that Hamas took when they committed all their atrocities. I can't get the video of Palestinians slowly killing an Israeli with a garden hoe out of my mind. And as a result, I have very little sympathy for Palestinians. How could anyone commit such horrors?

Images and videos tell the truth. But they elicit an emotional response that can warp and overwhelm a more rational and measured perspective. Having seen all the Hamas footage of what they did on 10/7, I 100 percent believe Israel is justified in taking the war to Gaza. Is it totally rational? No. But neither was America's response to 9/11. Powerful images create a visceral desire for vengeance and justice. And it can cloud everything else.

You should look at what Israel is doing to innocent Palestinians. You should see the thousand of babies who have been murdered. The thousands of children who have been crushed to death. Why do you want to ignore the atrocities that Israel is carrying out on a daily basis and in turn saying you have no sympathy for Palestinians?

[Anonymous]

Seven months into the war, the only glue holding the members of this Israeli cult together remains a fathomless hatred for anything they see as 'leftist' Why should we keep pretending? The gang from Channel 14 TV and die-hard fans of Benjamin Netanyahu would be very happy for the hostages to die in captivity.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-05-08/ty-article-opinion/.premium/netanyahu-and-his-gang-prefer-dead-hostages-to-happy-leftists/0000018f-539f-d662-a7af-7bbf95030000

[Anonymous]

The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

How hard would it really be to put a GPS chip in them before releasing them? Israel can always kill them months down the road

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

How hard would it really be to put a GPS chip in them before releasing them? Israel can always kill them months down the road

Israel is an occupying power and do not see the Palestinians as human…like you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

I dunno. For some reason, Israel didn't want to agree to this. Can't imagine why...

What's missing is any sort of guarantee or promise or even just gesture that Hamas won't do 10/7 again. Soon. No words at all about Hamas ceasing their internationally condemned tactics towards Israel, nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the proposal Israel rejected.

There is no ceasefire unless Hamas is removed from all and any governmental functions, all Hamas members, supporters, and affiliates (including those in the UN) are tried and punished by a neutral third party led by the United State, and a clear plan to deradicalize Palestinians is put in place.

There can be no peace until there is no Hamas. That has always been the goal. There can be temporary agreements to return hostages, but there is no reasonable world where Israel surrenders unconditionally.

Hamas did not agree to free living hostages. It proposed to substitute corpses.

Look I understand they are terrorists, but it seems like corpses are important to people. It said in pp's chart that Hamas also wanted Palestinian corpses from Israel. There was a story about a Palestinian man who quickly buried his children near the hospital, and when he went back for them they weren't there. I think they know it's in their best interest to keep people alive, but with Israel's indiscriminate bombing, they may have killed hostages. They killed 3 hostages (waving white flags) because they thought they were Hamas.

Organ trafficking happens there too. The dead aren’t left alone either

Huh, Gaza has a robust under the table organ harvesting transplant program? Who knew?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

It's odd that we pressure most countries to allow everyone within their borders equal rights including voting rights, but somehow Israel is the exception

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

Not as much, to be frank. The PA and most of Palestinian society have accepted the 1967 line. Israel has pointedly not and their Goverment has exclaimed that it is there overriding goal to never allow an independent Palestine to exist.

At this point there are more Israelis with expansionist dreams of taking over Jordan and the Sinai then there are Palestinians with expansionist dreams of taking over Israel.

Expansionist or not, and justified or not, Palestinians have been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades. Longer than the majority of Palestinians have been alive. Terrorism (internationally condemned war crimes) is all they know, it's their way of life.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the Friedman article yet, but I think spending US money on peace programs is better than bombs. Especially given that Save the Child said last month that 17K children have been orphaned in Gaza since 10/7. Terrorism and inhumanity is something that bullets can't eradicate. Both sides would benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ceasefire agreed to by Hamas-

Israel withdraws from Gaza, no aerial flights.
Hamas has freedom to move in all of Gaza
Hamas releases three living or dead hostages on third day, and three more every seven days.
For each living female released, 50 Palestinians are released, including anyone rearrested who was released in exchange for Shalit in 2011.
These prisoners are free to go to West Bank.

So two months to release bodies of hostages, with maybe hundreds of prisoners released for ten Israelis. Hamas could then stop whenever they wanted, knowing Biden and Europe(and DCUM) would pressure Israel not to break the ceasefire and reinvade Gaza.
Hamas would also become powerful in West Bank, having freed the prisoners that the current leadership could not.

It's almost like invading without having any plan to deal with civilian administration was destined to fail and be a public relations disaster. This speeds everything up, but Israel does not want to be an occupying power. When they leave, whoever they install will be overthrown because that's what happens to unpopular puppets. This was going to always end with either the IDF pulling out and Hamas declaring victory or massive ethnic cleansing. There is no other solution open to Israel

There is a solution - long term peace - but Israel doesn't want that because they want to keep the West Bank.

What a lovely idea! I think you might be ascribing too much omnipotent power to Israel though. They are only half of the conflict. There is another half as well that is equally opposed to giving up anything.

I see. What would you like the West Bankers to give up that they haven't already?