Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Not murder but not a good look for him or his family - would have definitely disqualified him from CEO or any place at Waystar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Not murder but not a good look for him or his family - would have definitely disqualified him from CEO or any place at Waystar.

"But it was only manslaughter!" isn't really the reputation-fixed you might think! Except, I guess, for all those vigilante Republicans who kill people in public then get cheered on by public officials... So maybe that's what happens here - Kendall does get found out, and somehow it elevates his standing with the craven class.

[Anonymous]

Kieran Culkin was amazing in last night’s episode. Just an utterly broken person. I could hardly watch the funeral scene.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could not stop laughing about the widows and the mistresses all hanging out. Amazing, 10/10, no notes.

Also I called Roman's breakdown at the beginning of the episode. When he was rehearsing this eulogy in his apartment I told my DH that no way we'd see it at the real deal (you don't see speeches twice on TV) and also he was wound up so tight that his head was going to have to pop off at some point anyway. So that felt predictable to me.

But Marcia comforting Kerry? Nope, not predictable, and I loved it. At least we don't have to listen to him grind his teeth tonight, eh ladies?! I died.

I thought that scene was unexpectedly sweet. Definitely didn't see it coming. When Marcia made the joke about the teeth and it caused Kerry to tear up, and Marcia took her hand- it was just really kind. I think everyone was being exceptionally kind to one another at the funeral (besides the Roy kids mom), and putting their feuds aside for the moment. I guarantee it's going to be sharply contrasted in next week's episode, and nobody is going to be being kind to anybody anymore.

Logan was abusive to women more than others. The women around him recognize that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Isn't it illegal to leave the scene of a vehicular accident like that in most jurisdictions without reporting it? Whether or not it's technically murder, I think he broke the law and he knows it, and it's something that was both immoral and that would get in the way of him being in charge of the whole company.

How the other kids fighting for control could let this sit out there for so long without raising it against Kendall now that he seems to be assuming the reigns -- even though it would be unsibling-like behavior, I'm pretty sure we're meant to understand these siblings are so needful of power and craven that they will do almost anything -- is a weird thing I don't understand, unless it's being saved for the finale.

Did it sound like the Swede was suggesting that Shiv get rid of the baby because she wouldn't have time, and Shiv did a little distraction dance of how negligent of a mother she'd be so that she could both be CEO and a mom? Wonder whether the Swede might come back to that and insist on it just to torture her, because he enjoys playing games like that (and Shiv would explain to Tom that she's getting rid of it at Swede's request, additional bonus torture for Tom).

It seemed like Kendall was being pretty tough on Roman at the end. I thought it was interesting that he wasn't giving Roman a tough time for having messed up the eulogy (family obligation), but for having messed up the deal with Mencken so they had no bargaining power left (work obligation), and he was going in on him pretty hard after he was already having a tough time. His jerkiness did remind me of Logan -- he wants what he wants whenever and at whatever cost.

Maybe the poison drips down, indeed. And Kendall wants custody of his kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shiv - I’m pregnant.

Roman - is it mine?

😳

It was interesting that she admitted she considered abortion up until that scene where the doctor called and said all good. So PPs were right that she was waiting until that moment to decide on abortion or not.

She stopped considering abortion at the moment we all learned of her pregnancy. So she was not considering it when she went into the conference room to cry, as so many suggested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Isn't it illegal to leave the scene of a vehicular accident like that in most jurisdictions without reporting it? Whether or not it's technically murder, I think he broke the law and he knows it, and it's something that was both immoral and that would get in the way of him being in charge of the whole company.

How the other kids fighting for control could let this sit out there for so long without raising it against Kendall now that he seems to be assuming the reigns -- even though it would be unsibling-like behavior, I'm pretty sure we're meant to understand these siblings are so needful of power and craven that they will do almost anything -- is a weird thing I don't understand, unless it's being saved for the finale.

Did it sound like the Swede was suggesting that Shiv get rid of the baby because she wouldn't have time, and Shiv did a little distraction dance of how negligent of a mother she'd be so that she could both be CEO and a mom? Wonder whether the Swede might come back to that and insist on it just to torture her, because he enjoys playing games like that (and Shiv would explain to Tom that she's getting rid of it at Swede's request, additional bonus torture for Tom).

It seemed like Kendall was being pretty tough on Roman at the end. I thought it was interesting that he wasn't giving Roman a tough time for having messed up the eulogy (family obligation), but for having messed up the deal with Mencken so they had no bargaining power left (work obligation), and he was going in on him pretty hard after he was already having a tough time. His jerkiness did remind me of Logan -- he wants what he wants whenever and at whatever cost.

Maybe the poison drips down, indeed. And Kendall wants custody of his kids?

Re Shiv, her automatic response to Lucas' negative reaction to her pregnancy brought forth the inevitable truth that she will be a mother like her own. The fruit doesn't fall far...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kieran Culkin was amazing in last night’s episode. Just an utterly broken person. I could hardly watch the funeral scene.

Agreed, he was amazing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kieran Culkin was amazing in last night’s episode. Just an utterly broken person. I could hardly watch the funeral scene.

Agree he was great but I think all the actors playing siblings were fantastic. The funeral scenes were really tough to play and they were all so good. Especially when you know how they film Succession -- there are always multiple cameras rolling and they do really long takes, with the goal of catching lots of reaction shots and side glances and behavior away from whoever is talking. It means the actors have to be extremely present and in character the entire time and can't coast. It's much more like being in a play than typical TV filming.

Usually with a TV drama, they will shoot a big scene like that a few times with different camera set ups designed to get different people, and might even chop the scene up quite a bit instead of doing long takes. And actors will know "okay this take is really for my acting partner, the camera is over my shoulder, I don't have to give it everything because I'm not really in the shot." Succession approaches this different and it's why the show has this very cinema veritas feel to it.

So I was extra impressed with last night's performances because these actors had to deliver that level of presence and emotion every single time the cameras rolled. That's really hard for many film/TV actors, but a lot of the Succession cast have considerable stage experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Isn't it illegal to leave the scene of a vehicular accident like that in most jurisdictions without reporting it? Whether or not it's technically murder, I think he broke the law and he knows it, and it's something that was both immoral and that would get in the way of him being in charge of the whole company.

How the other kids fighting for control could let this sit out there for so long without raising it against Kendall now that he seems to be assuming the reigns -- even though it would be unsibling-like behavior, I'm pretty sure we're meant to understand these siblings are so needful of power and craven that they will do almost anything -- is a weird thing I don't understand, unless it's being saved for the finale.

Did it sound like the Swede was suggesting that Shiv get rid of the baby because she wouldn't have time, and Shiv did a little distraction dance of how negligent of a mother she'd be so that she could both be CEO and a mom? Wonder whether the Swede might come back to that and insist on it just to torture her, because he enjoys playing games like that (and Shiv would explain to Tom that she's getting rid of it at Swede's request, additional bonus torture for Tom).

It seemed like Kendall was being pretty tough on Roman at the end. I thought it was interesting that he wasn't giving Roman a tough time for having messed up the eulogy (family obligation), but for having messed up the deal with Mencken so they had no bargaining power left (work obligation), and he was going in on him pretty hard after he was already having a tough time. His jerkiness did remind me of Logan -- he wants what he wants whenever and at whatever cost.

Maybe the poison drips down, indeed. And Kendall wants custody of his kids?

NP here. Because he always wants "to win". Like Logan. He had his 1st wife put in the mental institution to get rid of her so he could marry Caroline and then he paid off Caroline when he divorced her just so he could keep the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Isn't it illegal to leave the scene of a vehicular accident like that in most jurisdictions without reporting it? Whether or not it's technically murder, I think he broke the law and he knows it, and it's something that was both immoral and that would get in the way of him being in charge of the whole company.

How the other kids fighting for control could let this sit out there for so long without raising it against Kendall now that he seems to be assuming the reigns -- even though it would be unsibling-like behavior, I'm pretty sure we're meant to understand these siblings are so needful of power and craven that they will do almost anything -- is a weird thing I don't understand, unless it's being saved for the finale.

Did it sound like the Swede was suggesting that Shiv get rid of the baby because she wouldn't have time, and Shiv did a little distraction dance of how negligent of a mother she'd be so that she could both be CEO and a mom? Wonder whether the Swede might come back to that and insist on it just to torture her, because he enjoys playing games like that (and Shiv would explain to Tom that she's getting rid of it at Swede's request, additional bonus torture for Tom).

It seemed like Kendall was being pretty tough on Roman at the end. I thought it was interesting that he wasn't giving Roman a tough time for having messed up the eulogy (family obligation), but for having messed up the deal with Mencken so they had no bargaining power left (work obligation), and he was going in on him pretty hard after he was already having a tough time. His jerkiness did remind me of Logan -- he wants what he wants whenever and at whatever cost.

Maybe the poison drips down, indeed. And Kendall wants custody of his kids?

Re Shiv, her automatic response to Lucas' negative reaction to her pregnancy brought forth the inevitable truth that she will be a mother like her own. The fruit doesn't fall far...

I commented a long way back - like last season - that Shiv's reluctance to get pregnant was because she knows how much power she would lose. Kind of the whole "he couldn't fit a whole woman inside his head" comment. There's a reason there's an entire anti-discrimination law for pregnancy. Tech bros are kind of notorious for this sort of misogyny, so Matsson's comment is not surprising, and Shiv's response minimizing what having a child will do to her work life is also not surprising in order to ingratiate herself with him (what she actually does we'll never know).

We won't get to see how Shiv parents, but in her mom's case I think it was self-preservation and a bit of revenge/way to get back at Logan. It's clear in the series that Logan controlled how much Caroline saw her own children. A natural defense mechanism would be to pull back and not get too emotionally involved because you don't know how much intimacy and attachment you will be allowed to have. I think Shiv actually wants genuine emotional engagement, but doesn't know how to handle it. That's why she does destructive things like tell Tom she wants an open marriage or tells him she doesn't love him as a "joke." If she really felt nothing she'd have had the divorce papers served and if she decided to have the child she would have cut him out as much as possible. But she's still trying to have a happy family possibility even now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

+1 to all this. And Kendall is not afraid of Colin. Colin is a follower through and through and he'll transfer his loyalty to Logan to Kendall easily, especially if Kendall puts on a show of force, which he did.

DP. I disagree. I took Colin’s silence in the face of Kendall’s proposal as a very obvious “F-you.” No way does he feel loyalty towards Kendall. I would be very surprised if he actually winds up working for Kendall. You could see how contemptuous he was of him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, of course. But the caterer was already dead, Kendall trying to get help immediately would not have changed that. And the caterer is the one who steered the car into the water in the first place, as PP pointed out. It wasn't murder- it was impaired driving, with an even more impaired passenger who wrestled control of the steering wheel causing an accident, and one of those impaired people died in the crash. Ken is haunted and blames himself for the death but it was not murder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Isn't it illegal to leave the scene of a vehicular accident like that in most jurisdictions without reporting it? Whether or not it's technically murder, I think he broke the law and he knows it, and it's something that was both immoral and that would get in the way of him being in charge of the whole company.

How the other kids fighting for control could let this sit out there for so long without raising it against Kendall now that he seems to be assuming the reigns -- even though it would be unsibling-like behavior, I'm pretty sure we're meant to understand these siblings are so needful of power and craven that they will do almost anything -- is a weird thing I don't understand, unless it's being saved for the finale.

Did it sound like the Swede was suggesting that Shiv get rid of the baby because she wouldn't have time, and Shiv did a little distraction dance of how negligent of a mother she'd be so that she could both be CEO and a mom? Wonder whether the Swede might come back to that and insist on it just to torture her, because he enjoys playing games like that (and Shiv would explain to Tom that she's getting rid of it at Swede's request, additional bonus torture for Tom).

It seemed like Kendall was being pretty tough on Roman at the end. I thought it was interesting that he wasn't giving Roman a tough time for having messed up the eulogy (family obligation), but for having messed up the deal with Mencken so they had no bargaining power left (work obligation), and he was going in on him pretty hard after he was already having a tough time. His jerkiness did remind me of Logan -- he wants what he wants whenever and at whatever cost.

Maybe the poison drips down, indeed. And Kendall wants custody of his kids?

NP here. Because he always wants "to win". Like Logan. He had his 1st wife put in the mental institution to get rid of her so he could marry Caroline and then he paid off Caroline when he divorced her just so he could keep the kids.

Yeah but I don't think he'd have had to pay much to get custody, Caroline didn't really like any of her children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Isn't it illegal to leave the scene of a vehicular accident like that in most jurisdictions without reporting it? Whether or not it's technically murder, I think he broke the law and he knows it, and it's something that was both immoral and that would get in the way of him being in charge of the whole company.

How the other kids fighting for control could let this sit out there for so long without raising it against Kendall now that he seems to be assuming the reigns -- even though it would be unsibling-like behavior, I'm pretty sure we're meant to understand these siblings are so needful of power and craven that they will do almost anything -- is a weird thing I don't understand, unless it's being saved for the finale.

Did it sound like the Swede was suggesting that Shiv get rid of the baby because she wouldn't have time, and Shiv did a little distraction dance of how negligent of a mother she'd be so that she could both be CEO and a mom? Wonder whether the Swede might come back to that and insist on it just to torture her, because he enjoys playing games like that (and Shiv would explain to Tom that she's getting rid of it at Swede's request, additional bonus torture for Tom).

It seemed like Kendall was being pretty tough on Roman at the end. I thought it was interesting that he wasn't giving Roman a tough time for having messed up the eulogy (family obligation), but for having messed up the deal with Mencken so they had no bargaining power left (work obligation), and he was going in on him pretty hard after he was already having a tough time. His jerkiness did remind me of Logan -- he wants what he wants whenever and at whatever cost.

Maybe the poison drips down, indeed. And Kendall wants custody of his kids?

Re Shiv, her automatic response to Lucas' negative reaction to her pregnancy brought forth the inevitable truth that she will be a mother like her own. The fruit doesn't fall far...

I commented a long way back - like last season - that Shiv's reluctance to get pregnant was because she knows how much power she would lose. Kind of the whole "he couldn't fit a whole woman inside his head" comment. There's a reason there's an entire anti-discrimination law for pregnancy. Tech bros are kind of notorious for this sort of misogyny, so Matsson's comment is not surprising, and Shiv's response minimizing what having a child will do to her work life is also not surprising in order to ingratiate herself with him (what she actually does we'll never know).

We won't get to see how Shiv parents, but in her mom's case I think it was self-preservation and a bit of revenge/way to get back at Logan. It's clear in the series that Logan controlled how much Caroline saw her own children. A natural defense mechanism would be to pull back and not get too emotionally involved because you don't know how much intimacy and attachment you will be allowed to have. I think Shiv actually wants genuine emotional engagement, but doesn't know how to handle it. That's why she does destructive things like tell Tom she wants an open marriage or tells him she doesn't love him as a "joke." If she really felt nothing she'd have had the divorce papers served and if she decided to have the child she would have cut him out as much as possible. But she's still trying to have a happy family possibility even now.

This is a good insight and puts a Shiv quote from this episode in perspective: "I can do anything. My dad just died." (I might not have it exactly right).

But the sad thing is that at least as of the end of this episode, the "anything" she is choosing to do is to pursue a position as CEO of Waystar US, a company she doesn't actually even seem to like that much, out of a desire to be like her dad, be seen like her dad, or to feel somehow like she has finally earned her dad's love and approval.

When the "anything" she could be doing is living her own life, pursuing her own happiness, and recognizing that neither of her parents ever really wanted what was best for her so she might as well take her money and power and channel it towards making herself happy. Whether that includes a baby or not is something Shiv should figure out for herself, but right now she's still trying to fit herself into the tiny, uncomfortable box that her dad made available for her, the one that doesn't have room for a whole woman.

Shiv has repeatedly recognized that her dad's death could be a form of liberation for her, a chance to finally live for herself. She said it at the airport to when they were there waiting for his body -- Roman wanted to know if they should go look and Shiv said something like "what's he gonna do if we don't." She gets it.

Connor is the only one of Logan's kids who seems to really understand that the loss of Logan is a form of freedom. Connor might be an oblivious tool in many ways, but at least he understands that he can stop angling for daddy's approval and just go be a happy billionaire somewhere else.