Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree the show has gone downhill. This is the Succession I used to love? Now it seems like an HOA meeting where everyone airs their anger. So boring watching this family fight.

But isn't the point to show how a succession would work in this case? What I'm getting out of it is that the kids, who have had a privileged background, are not Logan and do not know how to adequately manage the massive power they fall into after his death. I think it shows how a tyrannical man can build an empire that is questionable but still functional. We may think that empire is bad, but it can be even worse in the hands of a sell-out (Roman), an inexperienced person (Shiv) or someone who is strictly out for their own interests (Kendall) without giving due consideration of the larger ecosystem (like Logan did).

[Anonymous]

The best part was after online speculation on whether Kerry was wearing a wig, her brother attends the funeral with that same long, dark hair. Nice Easter egg

[Anonymous]

Caulkin deserves an Emmy for that performance. It was fantastic.

[Anonymous]

Roman goes out into the crazed crowd and starts picking a fight, because he is a masochist and wants to goad someone into physically abusing him. He misses his dad’s abuse.

I loved when he was collapsing during the funeral and you see Karl shaking his head. Also the exchange between Shiv and Frank/Karl. How unsatisfying their response to her was.

Woof, woof!

[Anonymous]

Such a juicy, enjoyable season. I do not want it to be over next week!

[Anonymous]

While I think the show has gotten too talky...and a little boring...it was masterful that we were supposed to despite Roman in the last episode and feel sorry for him at the funeral.

Also...Shiv seemed to have the upper hand this week...but there's no way she comes out on top. Which is good because she seemed to be the only one with morals re the President last week, which she threw aside again once she realized it would suit her.

[Anonymous]

Shiv - I’m pregnant.

Roman - is it mine?

😳

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that all the season finale titles have derived from John Berryman's Dream Song 29 in some way, I wonder what line of the poem the finale will derive from, and what that will say about the series?

https://www.distractify.com/p/all-the-bells-say-succession-meaning

Here's the poem fwiw:

There sat down, once, a thing on Henry’s heart / so heavy, if he had a hundred years / & more, & weeping, sleepless, in all them time / Henry could not make good. / Starts again always in Henry’s ears / the little cough somewhere, an odour, a chime. //

And there is another thing he has in mind / like a grave Sienese face a thousand years / would fail to blur the still profiled reproach of. Ghastly, / with open eyes, he attends, blind. / All the bells say: too late. This is not for tears; / thinking. //

But never did Henry, as he thought he did, / end anyone and hacks her body up / and hide the pieces, where they may be found. / He knows: he went over everyone, & nobody’s missing. / Often he reckons, in the dawn, them up. / Nobody is ever missing. //

Maybe "Too late" -- but he's already used This is Not for Tears and All the Bells Say, which surround that. So maybe, if one of the kids really does betray everyone else, "And hide the pieces, where they may be found." Or maybe "In the Dawn."

This is very cool! I did not know this before. I love these kinds of things. I like "And Hide the Pieces, Where They May Be Found" as a last-episode title, but it might be too long. Maybe just the first or second half of that line.

Or perhaps, "He Went Over Everyone" -- a sort of metaphor for Logan's spirit/influence reaching from beyond the grave.

I also like "With Open Eyes," or "A Thousand Years Would Fail to Blur," but no specific ideas of how those lines would relate to the plot.

Aaaand the finale is called "With Open Eyes"!! So I was right about it being a quote from the (Berryman not Whitman doh) Dream Song that the other season finale's have quoted from, and YOU, PP, were right about the phrase. Nice work, us.

Given the context of the part it's being pulled from ("Ghastly, / with open eyes, he attends, blind. / All the bells say: too late. This is not for tears; / thinking. //") I don't think it sounds like the finale is going to be a hearts and flowers ending for everyone. To me it suggests a range of things: the people in charge don't know what they're doing; generational trauma continues to haunt and affect the family, and get passed down, etc; nothing is really solved.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are we supposed to assume that ATNs call on the election is the only one that matters? There are presumably other networks. This was a stumbling block for me last night.

Same here. ATN wanted to put some wind under Mencken's wings for the upcoming reckoning about Milwaukee. But presumably we'll hear more about both Milwaukee and the other networks' calls next week.

I don't think Tom will get fired over the call. Look at what happened over at Fox last presidential election, and I wouldn't say ATN's management and owners are better than at Fox. Tom's reputation will take a hit though. They'll probably fire the numbers guy who didn't want to call it.

Did you see the previews for next week? Everyone is blaming Tom.

ATN called it for Mencken in exchange for him to act like he wants it to be fair and go through the courts. So they will throw ATN under the bus.

What preview are you talking about? The one after the episode was all about the funeral. I don’t think Tom was even in the preview.

Sorry, it was the last scene in the episode. Greg says "your phone is red hot" and Tom is watching other networks say Tom was in the wrong.

I think Tom will be squarely thrown under the bus here. I don't think the show ends with us knowing Tom's fate at ATN, but likely knowing that Tom has been ousted from the Roy inner circle. The other possibility is that Tom more or less blackmails the Roys/Shiv to keep his spot. I think it's 50/50. I don't think we see much more in detail about the election because the outcome doesn't matter to any of them other than they have Mencken who will torpedo their deal.

I don't have a read on what happens at the end. This episode had several interesting turns as far as who might seize power at Waystar - Roman being ruthless and focused in a way we haven't really seen before. Greg betraying Shiv. Shiv floundering, totally out of her depth. Tom also floundering. Kendall mumbling like a big pile of mush while he tries to claw back a semblance of family life.

The preview for next week has Roman practicing a speech where he clearly intends to claim his father's legacy as his own.

I think Roman is being set up for a major fail at the funeral.

Called it!

Was thinking of your prediction while I was watching. Good call!

[Anonymous]

I thought this episode was really good and am liking this season more than the others. I think because it focuses on the aspect of the show I'm most drawn in by -- the way Logan has ensnared these kids in competition for both his love and his legacy, while also depriving them of his love and failing to prepare them in any way to take over his legacy.

I loved in Ewan's eulogy when he said that Logan had a meagerness to him. Here's this man who has so much money and power and creature comforts, but was defined by how tightly he held onto those things and wanted them all to himself. And more importantly, how little love and warmth and generosity he had, even with his own children. And then you see that meagerness and inadequacy deftly illustrated by Kendall's and Shiv's eulogies, where they have to fight the overwhelming truth about their father in order to find something warm and generous to say about him.

My parents aren't billionaires, but like Logan, they were marked by difficult, abusive, unhappy childhoods. And they were not good parents and didn't offer their children warmth or love or acceptance or safety. They always wanted more than they gave, they expected their kids to give them what they had lacked in their own childhoods, and in so doing they ruined our childhoods. It's a sadly common story. Watching the Roy kids deal with that is interesting and poignant to me. They aren't really grieving their dad's death. They are grieving the childhoods they never had, the love they never felt, the acceptance they never received from him. I think it's hard for the younger kids to let him go because they still held out hope that one day he would give them what they needed. But now he's dead and their chance of a loving father died with him.

(I think Connor, who is older, has already grieved and accepted that loss before their dad died -- he really did "pre-grieve"! And that's why he is less emotionally lost than the others, even if he is still very stunted and damaged due to his past.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Kendall's afraid colin's gonna blab about murder.

So- I hear it referred to as "the murder" a lot- but I honestly don't remember Ken murdering the caterer. The caterer was driving and he was high on ketamine. Ken saw that he was about to hit a deer or something, and grabbed the wheel to swerve (or was Ken driving and the caterer grabbed the wheel to swerve? Doesn't really matter to be honest, it was an honest accident by two really impaired individuals who made a decision to drive off in a car together at night time). The car went in the water. Ken escaped, and DOVE DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THE CATERER, but couldn't get him out, and realized he was dead. So then instead of calling the British equivalent of 911 (which, let's be honest, was not going to save his life!) he ran back to the hotel and tried to cover up his involvement in the accident.

At WORST it is like a hit and run where the victim is 10000% dead at the scene, and it was a true accident where both parties and neither party were really to blame, and the driver did not stick around. I cannot see how it could be considered a murder. The only reason Ken feels that it is a murder, is because of his massive guilt complex around his drug use.

Kendall was driving but the caterer grabbed the wheel and steered the car into the water. It was the caterer's fault.

Kendall didn't tell anyone and didn't try to get help immediately because he was high and would have been in trouble.

Yes, but that still isn't a murder.

Probably manslaughter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That was a really good episode of television.

Watching Kendall essentially evolve (devolve?) into his father is sort of satisfying and sad. The scene at the beginning where he's threatening Rava with a court order was painful. I can't decide if we are going to see the result of him fully unleashing his lawyers on Rava next week or not. But he seems to be in full dickhead mode. And that eulogy was really something. That is good writing to be able to insult the guy before you while still saying your dad was a terrible person.

Watching Roman unravel was a little satisfying after the last episode. i really wanted him to be attacked and/or arrested by the police. He's also clearly now subordinate to Kendall, who is gathering his power.

Jess resigning was kind of sad and sweet. And the moment before Kendall turns nasty to her, when he realizes why she's resigning, was intense.

Agree on widow's row at the funeral - 10/10

Shiv is kind of jamming on the work front while her personal life is a disaster. I have no idea what to make of what was going on with Tom in this episode - I guess he cracked under the pressure. Seems like Shiv very much has the upper hand back in the relationship, and I noticed that Tom's wedding ring was prominently featured in the shot with him complaining about a migraine. Loved his line to her mother that this would be such a happy time if it wasn't such a disaster.

Nice to see Euan back but wow have I had enough of Greg. Obviously making him so odious this season is intentional. It's a testament to Nicholas Braun for turning Greg from a likeable doofus who was way out of his league to the transparent toady he's become.

Alexander Skarsgard looking nice this episode.

Greg has never been likeable. He has always been the same character who is an opportunist who will do anything for money and power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shiv - I’m pregnant.

Roman - is it mine?

😳

It was interesting that she admitted she considered abortion up until that scene where the doctor called and said all good. So PPs were right that she was waiting until that moment to decide on abortion or not.

[Anonymous]

Agree that Greg was never a good guy. Also agree that this season has gotten very boring.