America is in an economic tailspin. Why does life feel so normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the economic situation - especially when it comes to housing.

The market in Florida (even NOW with COVID #s) is absolutely nuts! There are condos that sold for $60K a year ago that are now selling for $148, with no major renovations being done.

I've been trying to buy a place for a family member and thought prices would be going down but they are higher than they've been in years.

Just don't understand it - at all.

Same here. Locally, in the distant DC exurbs, I'm seeing places being sold at 10% annual appreciation over 2-3 years with no improvements. (It seems like the ideal time to cash out if you can.) Surely this can't go on and on when people's purchasing power is stagnant or declining.

The only way I can rationalize the stock market not tanking is that the rise is being driven by the idea that rich people have a lot more looting and profiting to do before they expect anything to hit them.

I wonder if this housing this is nation-wide? I understand interest rates are down but WTF! Double the price increases in some markets??

As you indicate maybe people are cashing out of houses, buying something else/cheaper elsewhere and pocketing the profit. Get out while the getting is good. With so many people on the brink of current or potential unemployment this may be a viable option to pad their savings.

My question is who the heck are buying these places?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the economic metrics show us at Great Depression levels yet life seems so normal. I know DC is always more insulated from economic downturns but stories from my relatives in other cities bely a sense or normalcy. Why is that? My grandparents had depression era stories of long bread lines, wearing tattered clothes, shantytowns popping up in cities, etc. Are we just too early in this cycle to see the worst effects?

Get outside your bubble.

The soup kitchen lines where I live in this area have always stretched a block or more. And there are car lines that are hours long.

I can see shantytown in the wooded areas around here. They have been here for years. Once the evictions start next month, you’ll see more families sleeping in cars and on the streets.

I saw a family trying to take clothing out of a donation box last week. They were looking for shoes for a boy a bit younger than my own. The mom said that when Payless closed, shoes became too expensive. I gave her $40 and she started crying. I grew up with too tight shoes due to poverty and it’s something that still breaks my heart.

Honestly, pp doesn't have to go too far outside her bubble to see the impact of the pandemic. I was house hunting not too long ago, and I came upon a long trail of cars waiting to get into a soup kitchen near Briggs Chaney Rd. The traffic to get in was so backed up that they had cops out directing traffic. This was in May.

I volunteer for my church and we pack boxes with groceries and delivery them every day. Yes, people come more than in pre-pandemic times, but at the same time, all these people come in a nice cars (I've handled boxes to BMW, Escalate, hondas, etc.), a lot of ladies comes with their nails done professionally, and holding the latest model of iPhones.

I can speak to this first hand. A little over a dozen years ago, I had to divorce my abusive H. I had two little kids, including a nursing newborn. I hadn’t gained any weight during pregnancy due to HG and quickly lost 20 lbs just nursing. I had no income as I was on maternity leave and my H refused to pay child support. It would be another six months before the court forced him to.

So I went to the food pantry. In my nice car that was bought before my separation and the only transportation I had in winter with a newborn. And I didn’t have an iPhone, but I had a cellphone that my mom bought me because my H had cut the landlines before and she didn’t want me to be in that position ever again.

Selling the car and the phone would not have netted enough money to put food on my table for the months I waited for the courts to force my H to support DC. But the woman who loaded my car gave me a withering look without knowing my story. She wanted me to feel bad when she was supposed to be helping people like me as a work of corporal mercy.

Really stop and think if Jesus would judge people for cars and phones at a time like this.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. We sold a car to help with a financial issue and honestly it was so hard to buy one again because we didn't have the money or credit to do so. If a situation is temporary it doesn't make sense to give up cars and phones, two things that most people need to find work.

Yes, there’s no way that I could have scraped together money to replace the car even with a used car at one of those predatory lending places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stimulus checks
Printing more money
We are too early into the crisis

This. Both my neighbor and I were at the same grocery store this morning and we commented to each other how surprisingly busy it was. I am worried about what is going to happen this fall and winter when peoples' money starts running out and they don't have room on the credit cards any more. I think we're in for a really hard crash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

This. Only 50% of Americans pay taxes. The 50% that pay taxes are financially supporting other households. The reality is "reparations" have existed on a yearly basis
in the US since the 1960s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

That is probably a family of 8+ living in a high COLA like SF or NYC. My friend lost her voucher when she received a modest raise.

The vast majority of people receiving assistance really aren’t living the lifestyle you describe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the economic metrics show us at Great Depression levels yet life seems so normal. I know DC is always more insulated from economic downturns but stories from my relatives in other cities bely a sense or normalcy. Why is that? My grandparents had depression era stories of long bread lines, wearing tattered clothes, shantytowns popping up in cities, etc. Are we just too early in this cycle to see the worst effects?

Get outside your bubble.

The soup kitchen lines where I live in this area have always stretched a block or more. And there are car lines that are hours long.

I can see shantytown in the wooded areas around here. They have been here for years. Once the evictions start next month, you’ll see more families sleeping in cars and on the streets.

I saw a family trying to take clothing out of a donation box last week. They were looking for shoes for a boy a bit younger than my own. The mom said that when Payless closed, shoes became too expensive. I gave her $40 and she started crying. I grew up with too tight shoes due to poverty and it’s something that still breaks my heart.

Honestly, pp doesn't have to go too far outside her bubble to see the impact of the pandemic. I was house hunting not too long ago, and I came upon a long trail of cars waiting to get into a soup kitchen near Briggs Chaney Rd. The traffic to get in was so backed up that they had cops out directing traffic. This was in May.

I volunteer for my church and we pack boxes with groceries and delivery them every day. Yes, people come more than in pre-pandemic times, but at the same time, all these people come in a nice cars (I've handled boxes to BMW, Escalate, hondas, etc.), a lot of ladies comes with their nails done professionally, and holding the latest model of iPhones.

I can speak to this first hand. A little over a dozen years ago, I had to divorce my abusive H. I had two little kids, including a nursing newborn. I hadn’t gained any weight during pregnancy due to HG and quickly lost 20 lbs just nursing. I had no income as I was on maternity leave and my H refused to pay child support. It would be another six months before the court forced him to.

So I went to the food pantry. In my nice car that was bought before my separation and the only transportation I had in winter with a newborn. And I didn’t have an iPhone, but I had a cellphone that my mom bought me because my H had cut the landlines before and she didn’t want me to be in that position ever again.

Selling the car and the phone would not have netted enough money to put food on my table for the months I waited for the courts to force my H to support DC. But the woman who loaded my car gave me a withering look without knowing my story. She wanted me to feel bad when she was supposed to be helping people like me as a work of corporal mercy.

Really stop and think if Jesus would judge people for cars and phones at a time like this.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. We sold a car to help with a financial issue and honestly it was so hard to buy one again because we didn't have the money or credit to do so. If a situation is temporary it doesn't make sense to give up cars and phones, two things that most people need to find work.

Yes, there’s no way that I could have scraped together money to replace the car even with a used car at one of those predatory lending places.

DP. You totally made the right choice. A car is a lifeline. Not having access to reliable transportation and not being able to afford public transportation is a huge limiter to people getting and maintaining jobs. You were completely right to hold on tight to that car (and phone).

It sounds like things are much better for you now and that makes me happy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stimulus checks
Printing more money
We are too early into the crisis

This. Both my neighbor and I were at the same grocery store this morning and we commented to each other how surprisingly busy it was. I am worried about what is going to happen this fall and winter when peoples' money starts running out and they don't have room on the credit cards any more. I think we're in for a really hard crash.

This. The shopping centers/districts in my area have been busy for months. People have a lot of spendable cash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our restaurants cannot find staff and therefore cannot open. Why would a server come to work when they make more on unemployment? There’s going to be a weird few weeks in August while people start going back to their service and retail jobs, and then things will bounce back.

Maybe you should pay them a living wage instead of expecting them to survive on tips?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

We also live in Alexandria City. Your description is accurate. Our city leadership and government seems to encourage and enable the behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

Not always. Former neighbor in DC had no problem mentioning he signed up for SNAP even though he didn’t need just because it was easy. Maybe he’s the exception but it does happen and not all have the conscience about it that you think they should.

Food stamps (snap) is an extremely low barrier to entry in my state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stimulus checks
Printing more money
We are too early into the crisis

This. Both my neighbor and I were at the same grocery store this morning and we commented to each other how surprisingly busy it was. I am worried about what is going to happen this fall and winter when peoples' money starts running out and they don't have room on the credit cards any more. I think we're in for a really hard crash.

We’re buying now because we won’t Oct-probably April. I’m going to let this burn through and that means I need food, OTC meds, clothing, and household goods on hand before 10/1 at the latest. My hank account shows a crazy amount of spending right now, but I’ll just save for about 5 months after that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

I'm not saying whether this is true or not, but we're living in an economic melt down. If they're spending money on eating out, getting their hair and nails done, upgrading their phones and buying clothes then they're doing their part to keep the economy afloat. That's what we need right now. Businesses are DESPERATE for this kind of spending. Please don't encourage people to save money now -- we need people to spend if we want to survive this downturn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stimulus checks
Printing more money
We are too early into the crisis

This. Both my neighbor and I were at the same grocery store this morning and we commented to each other how surprisingly busy it was. I am worried about what is going to happen this fall and winter when peoples' money starts running out and they don't have room on the credit cards any more. I think we're in for a really hard crash.

I haven't spent a penny on food for almost two weeks. I'm waiting for the second shoe to drop. In the meantime, we're eating the pantry items we put in already.

[Anonymous]

In a world of unemployed, the man with a temporary salary reduction is god. Bring on the wave! Daddy wants lower prices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stimulus checks
Printing more money
We are too early into the crisis

This. Both my neighbor and I were at the same grocery store this morning and we commented to each other how surprisingly busy it was. I am worried about what is going to happen this fall and winter when peoples' money starts running out and they don't have room on the credit cards any more. I think we're in for a really hard crash.

This. The shopping centers/districts in my area have been busy for months. People have a lot of spendable cash.

That's the entire point of the extra $600 unemployment benefit!!!! If the stores were empty and closing down one by one, would that somehow be a better scenario than giving unemployed people enough money to have something extra to spend? That's so foolish. We NEED people to be spending now, and if they don't have the money, they can't do that. If all those people lose their extra spending money, imagine what will happen as all those stores go belly up. It will be terrible for all of us.