America is in an economic tailspin. Why does life feel so normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the economic situation - especially when it comes to housing.

The market in Florida (even NOW with COVID #s) is absolutely nuts! There are condos that sold for $60K a year ago that are now selling for $148, with no major renovations being done.

I've been trying to buy a place for a family member and thought prices would be going down but they are higher than they've been in years.

Just don't understand it - at all.

Same here. Locally, in the distant DC exurbs, I'm seeing places being sold at 10% annual appreciation over 2-3 years with no improvements. (It seems like the ideal time to cash out if you can.) Surely this can't go on and on when people's purchasing power is stagnant or declining.

The only way I can rationalize the stock market not tanking is that the rise is being driven by the idea that rich people have a lot more looting and profiting to do before they expect anything to hit them.

[Anonymous]

It really is a country with two different economies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, we live in a desirable neighborhood that has a lot of socio-economic diversity on the border of DC, and the lines for food support at the local schools multiple times per week are massive. Just massive. It's encouraging to see such robust support, but devastating to see the need is so great.

In neighborhoods without socio-economic diversity and homogenous community, you won't see this as much because there is no life raft being thrown out 3x/week, or at least not as visibly or as fully.

More negative effects will surface. And it won't be pretty. What a disgrace of an administration that has perpetuated such an ugly divide, and exacerbated so many negatives. It didn't have to be this way.

At least this administration wants to get people back to work while the Democrats forced through the shutdowns and are led by people hiding in their basements and urging folks to stay home from their fancy $20 million mansion and to order expensive premium grade ice cream. You know, the "party of working people."

I love it when the ugly partisanship of one side blames the other side for perpetuating such an ugly divide

Hahaha. So the person who comes here to level hyper partisan attacks full of hyperbole and lies rolls their eyes at "ugly partisanship" Are you so obtuse that you can't even see how stupid and hypocritical you sound?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, we live in a desirable neighborhood that has a lot of socio-economic diversity on the border of DC, and the lines for food support at the local schools multiple times per week are massive. Just massive. It's encouraging to see such robust support, but devastating to see the need is so great.

In neighborhoods without socio-economic diversity and homogenous community, you won't see this as much because there is no life raft being thrown out 3x/week, or at least not as visibly or as fully.

More negative effects will surface. And it won't be pretty. What a disgrace of an administration that has perpetuated such an ugly divide, and exacerbated so many negatives. It didn't have to be this way.

At least this administration wants to get people back to work while the Democrats forced through the shutdowns and are led by people hiding in their basements and urging folks to stay home from their fancy $20 million mansion and to order expensive premium grade ice cream. You know, the "party of working people."

I love it when the ugly partisanship of one side blames the other side for perpetuating such an ugly divide

Hahaha. So the person who comes here to level hyper partisan attacks full of hyperbole and lies rolls their eyes at "ugly partisanship" Are you so obtuse that you can't even see how stupid and hypocritical you sound?

Donald Trump "forced the shut down." Then he turned his back on his own plan. He shot the economy in the foot and then didn't even bother to follow through so we could open up again in a healthy state. Donald Trump is completely and totally responsible for the mess we're in. Everyone knows that. And the "hiding in their basements" comment is cringe-worthy. Trump hid in the bunker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the economic metrics show us at Great Depression levels yet life seems so normal. I know DC is always more insulated from economic downturns but stories from my relatives in other cities bely a sense or normalcy. Why is that? My grandparents had depression era stories of long bread lines, wearing tattered clothes, shantytowns popping up in cities, etc. Are we just too early in this cycle to see the worst effects?

Democrats wants you to believe we are in such a disaster. We were tried to buy another house within last two month, and it is almost impossible, everything is flying out of the market.

In your bubble. The reasons you aren't seeing the impact thus far are, you live in a bubble, evictions and foreclosure were put on hold and the extra $600 in unemployment benefits. When the no eviction/foreclosure orders and the extra $600 in unemployment go away, the far reaching impact of this will be evident. The rent isn't being forgiven, it's still owed. That means people are going to owe multiple months of rent when the restrictions lift. A house in my neighborhood sold within hours on the market for above asking price but that's because many people in this area aren't impacted by the economic effects of the pandemic because they can telework and are getting fully paid. There are other segments of society who can't telework and who've lost their jobs. I know people who have gotten rid of their nannies and housekeepers because they don't need childcare while teleworking and don't want unnecessary exposure from workers coming into their homes. The people getting rid of the nannies and house keepers are fine financially, the workers are not. What's going to happen to the janitors, cafeteria workers, bus drivers....now that many school districts are going DL in the new school year. This really is a disaster for some families. Count your blessings that you can actually believe its democratic propaganda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It really is a country with two different economies.

+1 I'm probably doing better financially during the pandemic because I have my same salary and less expenses. I didn't go on the three vacations I had planned between March and now, I don't have dry cleaning bills, we don't eat out, I save thousand in summer camp for my kids....Others can't telework and have lost their jobs such as mall employees, janitors and support staff in office buildings, restaurant workers, daycare workers....

[Anonymous]

Also- don’t forget that student loan payments have been frozen since March. They’ll kick back in @ end of September. It’ll add to the things getting/going south.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

I don't buy this for a sec. There are some that cheat the system but a majority do not. And those who do not are more frequently getting those SPARE benefits cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, we live in a desirable neighborhood that has a lot of socio-economic diversity on the border of DC, and the lines for food support at the local schools multiple times per week are massive. Just massive. It's encouraging to see such robust support, but devastating to see the need is so great.

In neighborhoods without socio-economic diversity and homogenous community, you won't see this as much because there is no life raft being thrown out 3x/week, or at least not as visibly or as fully.

More negative effects will surface. And it won't be pretty. What a disgrace of an administration that has perpetuated such an ugly divide, and exacerbated so many negatives. It didn't have to be this way.

At least this administration wants to get people back to work while the Democrats forced through the shutdowns and are led by people hiding in their basements and urging folks to stay home from their fancy $20 million mansion and to order expensive premium grade ice cream. You know, the "party of working people."

I love it when the ugly partisanship of one side blames the other side for perpetuating such an ugly divide

I am actually was trying to find the number of total deaths in US in 2019 vs. 2020 and can't find. If we are in pandemic, those numbers should be very different, right?


Oh, stop the nonsense. Of course Democrats want citizens back to work but not at the risk of their lives. Look what’s happening in Florida and Georgia.

150,000 Americans have died. 150,000 funerals and countless losses and heartbreak.

650,000 die every year of heart disease. Far more Americans have died of other causes than COVID 19 in the last four months. And your point is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

I don't buy this for a sec. There are some that cheat the system but a majority do not. And those who do not are more frequently getting those SPARE benefits cut.

Oh, you have not met any immigrants in NYC. This is the way a lot of them lived through several generations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the economic metrics show us at Great Depression levels yet life seems so normal. I know DC is always more insulated from economic downturns but stories from my relatives in other cities bely a sense or normalcy. Why is that? My grandparents had depression era stories of long bread lines, wearing tattered clothes, shantytowns popping up in cities, etc. Are we just too early in this cycle to see the worst effects?

Democrats wants you to believe we are in such a disaster. We were tried to buy another house within last two month, and it is almost impossible, everything is flying out of the market.

In your bubble. The reasons you aren't seeing the impact thus far are, you live in a bubble, evictions and foreclosure were put on hold and the extra $600 in unemployment benefits. When the no eviction/foreclosure orders and the extra $600 in unemployment go away, the far reaching impact of this will be evident. The rent isn't being forgiven, it's still owed. That means people are going to owe multiple months of rent when the restrictions lift. A house in my neighborhood sold within hours on the market for above asking price but that's because many people in this area aren't impacted by the economic effects of the pandemic because they can telework and are getting fully paid. There are other segments of society who can't telework and who've lost their jobs. I know people who have gotten rid of their nannies and housekeepers because they don't need childcare while teleworking and don't want unnecessary exposure from workers coming into their homes. The people getting rid of the nannies and house keepers are fine financially, the workers are not. What's going to happen to the janitors, cafeteria workers, bus drivers....now that many school districts are going DL in the new school year. This really is a disaster for some families. Count your blessings that you can actually believe its democratic propaganda.

And who is keeping the schools closed? In Fairfax, Loundon and Arlington counties -- it is majority or 100% of Democrats on the School Boards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the economic metrics show us at Great Depression levels yet life seems so normal. I know DC is always more insulated from economic downturns but stories from my relatives in other cities bely a sense or normalcy. Why is that? My grandparents had depression era stories of long bread lines, wearing tattered clothes, shantytowns popping up in cities, etc. Are we just too early in this cycle to see the worst effects?

Get outside your bubble.

The soup kitchen lines where I live in this area have always stretched a block or more. And there are car lines that are hours long.

I can see shantytown in the wooded areas around here. They have been here for years. Once the evictions start next month, you’ll see more families sleeping in cars and on the streets.

I saw a family trying to take clothing out of a donation box last week. They were looking for shoes for a boy a bit younger than my own. The mom said that when Payless closed, shoes became too expensive. I gave her $40 and she started crying. I grew up with too tight shoes due to poverty and it’s something that still breaks my heart.

Honestly, pp doesn't have to go too far outside her bubble to see the impact of the pandemic. I was house hunting not too long ago, and I came upon a long trail of cars waiting to get into a soup kitchen near Briggs Chaney Rd. The traffic to get in was so backed up that they had cops out directing traffic. This was in May.

I volunteer for my church and we pack boxes with groceries and delivery them every day. Yes, people come more than in pre-pandemic times, but at the same time, all these people come in a nice cars (I've handled boxes to BMW, Escalate, hondas, etc.), a lot of ladies comes with their nails done professionally, and holding the latest model of iPhones.

I can speak to this first hand. A little over a dozen years ago, I had to divorce my abusive H. I had two little kids, including a nursing newborn. I hadn’t gained any weight during pregnancy due to HG and quickly lost 20 lbs just nursing. I had no income as I was on maternity leave and my H refused to pay child support. It would be another six months before the court forced him to.

So I went to the food pantry. In my nice car that was bought before my separation and the only transportation I had in winter with a newborn. And I didn’t have an iPhone, but I had a cellphone that my mom bought me because my H had cut the landlines before and she didn’t want me to be in that position ever again.

Selling the car and the phone would not have netted enough money to put food on my table for the months I waited for the courts to force my H to support DC. But the woman who loaded my car gave me a withering look without knowing my story. She wanted me to feel bad when she was supposed to be helping people like me as a work of corporal mercy.

Really stop and think if Jesus would judge people for cars and phones at a time like this.

It is not about judgement, it is about people's priorities. Buying $20k vs. $80k car could put an extra $60k into your saving account for the times like this. It is not about selling the car now, it is too late. It is about living within your means and saving for future. You said you were on maternity leave, so I assume you had a job to support yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will add to my comment above that "poverty is not a character flew".

All you people with bootstraps to spare, who were gifted bootstraps from your parents, who don't know anyone without bootstraps and boots . . . you have obviously never been on public assistance or known anyone who has.

No one gets public assistance for fun. It's not easy. Cash welfare is not really a thing anymore since Clinton passed welfare reform. No one is rolling up to the food pantry in their luxury SUV for fun, because they had an extra hour in their day, because they love eating cheap processed food, because they would rather be tsk tsk'ed by some "nice" Christian ladies than spend $10 at Safeway. if you think someone needs to dress in rags and take the bus an hour to beg for some Aldi food the people donating wouldn't feed their own families and some dollar store toys and school suppliers, you are not a kind person and should find a different place to volunteer.

Waiting lists for Section 8 housing are long.
Applications to get free cable or get help with your heating bills are long and require cooperation from lazy ass landlords and may require you to jump through hoops to prove you are worthy.
The process to get and keep SNAP or WIC is not easy and if you do have WIC, you may have to endure the humiliation of your case worker telling you that according to her chart your baby is too fat for the whole milk your pediatrician recommends and you will only get 2%. Or generic formula that makes your baby spit up. God forbid you have a SNAP EBT card and you buy something the Karen behind you in line doesn't think is necessary. God forbid poor people have some stability or even worse - joy in their lives like nice nails that their sister the nail tech did on her day off to practice a new technique or a reliable car borrowed from a neighbor or phone that works, a gift from your boss so he can reach you.

Being poor sucked before Covid and will sucks more now.
Your life seems normal because you don't know any poor people. The people in your life who are silently suffering right now have the credit to keep up appearances - at least for a while. You may find out in 6-12 months that some people were closer to the edge than you imagined. You might find out in 10-30 years when people you know don't have money to pay for their kids' college or to retire.

This is a narrative that’s been formed over the years and I used to buy into it.

Now we live in Alexandria City where welfare is a way of life for generations. Literally grandma got the public housing and now her grandkids and great grand Kids live with her and her own kids live in the same complex with their children and grand children

Did you know that public housing doesn’t kick you out even when a household has an income of over $100K ?

The base salary of public housing plus snap plus child care subsidies plus medical care subsidies often is close to $60K or more. So imagine if all your basic needs are met and any income you make is now disposable. You save nothing because if you did than you would not have money for eating out, getting your hair and nails done, upgrading your phone, buying designer clothes and so on

That’s what really, truly happens. Whatever inconvenience it takes to maintain that standard set of subsidies that keeps all basic needs met is totally worth it.

I don't buy this for a sec. There are some that cheat the system but a majority do not. And those who do not are more frequently getting those SPARE benefits cut.

No where did I say anyone was cheating. Like I said it’s perfectly ok to live in public housing even if the household income exceeds $100K.
The communities are located on Old Town Alexandria. They are not difficult to find. And this isn’t some big secret that this is going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I paid my house off last year. Nothing fancy, bought it 18 years ago and added onto it, mostly myself. Its far better than I could live in if I had to pay someone else to do it for me. We live on one salary, mine, albeit its GS-15. I'm 42. I have 150 grand in the bank, cash savings. We drive old cars, clean our own house, and cook our own meals at home. I repair my own older iphone when it breaks (they do). I'm having to telework but grateful to have a job. (Just because I'm debt free doesnt mean I'm expense free.) People in bread lines in BMWs had the income, they just chose to spend it and not build up a 6-8 month savings. Maybe now they'll learn.

Why don’t you walk up and down the line at the food bank telling everyone they should eat cake.

People do live beyond their means. Or rather, they live to very limit of their means. In these BMW anecdotes, they didn't have to do that.

I get what PP's saying. If you're rolling up to the food bank with an iPhone 10 and a 50k car, well, you made choices.

I never forget the neighbors faces when my husband first rode up in his 70k luxury truck. The nosey neighbors think he paid the ridiculous amount, when in fact he purchased an almost new (prior corporate lease most likely) truck from Carmax for $32k. My point is you don't know the circumstances behind people's purchases. And the federal government GS15 worker pulling in $166,000 a year has never missed a paycheck, or worried about job loss. He needs to stfu because he cant relate to people's job insecurities. Heck, he doesn't even have to leave his house and put him or his family in danger of contracting a deadly virus , but he feels so sanctimonious to lecture others about their money or lack thereof.

I didn’t know they had luxury market segment for rednecks.

Not this poster, but damn, you’re a total asshole

Also not this poster, but you STFU! The 'luxury' truck owner is attacking government employees, many of whom are essential, and the overwhelming majority makes way less that 166K. But rednecks won't know it, they are too proud driving around in their fancy trucks.