Please get rid of GDA and ECNL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that needs to go away is you.

Awwwww. Poor you has to read an opinion you don't like. Life is rough. Go do your sour scolding on another thread if you can't take it in here.

It’s not about agreement it’s about beating a dead horse. Get this upset about things in life that matter.

It's a chat forum...a complaint department....a suggestion box.....I am not the one misunderstanding this place. What are you doing here? Just spending your precious free time cheerleading for our great youth sports environment? Sure you are.

No, just because it is a chat forum does not mean it is a complaint department. And not every complaint is valid or feasible. And nobody likes a complainer. This forum is negative enough without an entitled baby like you chiming in constantly with pipe dreams of a revolution.

The reality is, you don’t really care at all about the state of soccer, you only care about how it affects you and your kid. Ultimately, since that is your take I could care less about you, your kid or your concerns because in the end they are only about you.

You’re the type of person who would get pissed off when a friend changes their once shared Netflix password on you after years of you never paying.

Just respond to the substance of the conversation. The name calling and stupid analogies are dull and uninteresting. Just say why you are such a fan of the current youth soccer landscape and leave out the dull childish go away stuff.

I dont disagree that soccer is of little consequence. It could vanish tomorrow it entire and life would carry on just fine. But you are in a soccer chat forum by choice. if you dont like it just find something better.

The substance is:
1. Like golf, tennis, gymnastics, if you can’t afford it don’t do it. I don’t ski or go to the movies either. They cost to much so I DONT DO THEM! I don’t demand that they change their model to suit me. I wish I could eat at Ruth Criss too but instead I can only afford Outback.

The substance of your argument is that you believe a system needs to bend to your will. This system is not a thing anyone needs. It is an extra curricular activity and nothing more. Put it in perspective and perhaps YOU will see the light.

Healthcare, education, affordable housing, THESE are the things that are important and things “We need to get serious about”. Soccer is a game, nothing more. I don’t care if your kid can afford ECNL. It isn’t compelling. I do care if you can afford prescriptions for your kid. One is more important than the other.

Are you a moron? There is another forum for healthcare, jackass. We are talking about soccer.

Skiing, golf and tennis are expensive the world over. Soccer is only expensive in America and it because of clueless parents like yourself who are thrilled with the status quo. We need to get past folks like you.

BTW, I love skiing and do it often. I don't ski in the East because the resorts are a joke. If you want good skiing, you have to ski out West. My kid wants to play competitive soccer. It makes zero sense for my kid to have to travel to FL, CA or TX during the year and to drive several thousand miles during the season to play league games. There are more than a dozen competitive travel teams in her age group between Richmond and B-more.

[Anonymous]

Bernie and AOC will ensure that all kids get to play ECNL, regardless of means or ability. It'll be great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that needs to go away is you.

Awwwww. Poor you has to read an opinion you don't like. Life is rough. Go do your sour scolding on another thread if you can't take it in here.

It’s not about agreement it’s about beating a dead horse. Get this upset about things in life that matter.

It's a chat forum...a complaint department....a suggestion box.....I am not the one misunderstanding this place. What are you doing here? Just spending your precious free time cheerleading for our great youth sports environment? Sure you are.

No, just because it is a chat forum does not mean it is a complaint department. And not every complaint is valid or feasible. And nobody likes a complainer. This forum is negative enough without an entitled baby like you chiming in constantly with pipe dreams of a revolution.

The reality is, you don’t really care at all about the state of soccer, you only care about how it affects you and your kid. Ultimately, since that is your take I could care less about you, your kid or your concerns because in the end they are only about you.

You’re the type of person who would get pissed off when a friend changes their once shared Netflix password on you after years of you never paying.

Just respond to the substance of the conversation. The name calling and stupid analogies are dull and uninteresting. Just say why you are such a fan of the current youth soccer landscape and leave out the dull childish go away stuff.

I dont disagree that soccer is of little consequence. It could vanish tomorrow it entire and life would carry on just fine. But you are in a soccer chat forum by choice. if you dont like it just find something better.

The substance is:
1. Like golf, tennis, gymnastics, if you can’t afford it don’t do it. I don’t ski or go to the movies either. They cost to much so I DONT DO THEM! I don’t demand that they change their model to suit me. I wish I could eat at Ruth Criss too but instead I can only afford Outback.

The substance of your argument is that you believe a system needs to bend to your will. This system is not a thing anyone needs. It is an extra curricular activity and nothing more. Put it in perspective and perhaps YOU will see the light.

Healthcare, education, affordable housing, THESE are the things that are important and things “We need to get serious about”. Soccer is a game, nothing more. I don’t care if your kid can afford ECNL. It isn’t compelling. I do care if you can afford prescriptions for your kid. One is more important than the other.

Much more interesting and useful post IMO. I agree with much of your post. Not sure where you got the idea I can't afford ecnl or gda. I do wish there was a better product available in the market but there is not. I am entitles to state that I wish there was a better product available.

Bolted above:

I don’t know whether or not if you can or can’t afford ECNL/DA but the substance of your argument has been focused on cost not the product on the field. The substance of your argument makes you come off as an entitled Karen.

Frankly, ECNL and DA are showcase leagues. That means they play in showcases and to a degree can guarantee a level of exposure to college coaches in a competitive formate. This model works best if the college coaches and the players are all at one location. Things cost more at a indoor shopping mall too but built into that price is the convenience of multiple stores in one place.

And while DA and ECNL doubles the showcases for college coaches they can still see twice the number of kids more economically. And the existence of two showcase leagues means more kids have an opportunity to be seen and fewer kids will fall through the cracks. Most kids in these leagues just want to play in college and are not interested in a pyramid geared solely towards the National Team. The kids you speak of would actually be harmed by one gate keeping league. The financial burden of attending ID camp after ID camp can very quickly outpace the cost of ECNL just to be seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clubs do not get money back from the ECNL for using their hotel platform

I did administration part time for one that was getting kickbacks. It is a megaclub, so it may be privileges others don't. That isn't really what's important though. Clubs conform to protect their entry into the big showcases and know that families will fall in line in order to get their kids rostered.

The fat cats are the ECNL league administration (housed in Richmond) and the travel agencies. Mostly that's Anthony Travel but lately it hasn't been them exclusively.

Initially it seemed like the corruption was a big reason why the gda was targeting the ecnl. But it quickly became clear it is just a contest to see which cat can get fatter.

Maybe. There's no question that youth soccer (and probably a lot of travel sports) are easy ways to get people to throw away their money. Parents throw a lot of money at it.

But one thing I learned is that the DA came out right when a lot of other countries were opening up girls' academies to mirror their boys' programs. Teams that win are better income sources, and the WNT wins - right now. There's a lot of research out there that shows we are falling behind on the girls' side. I think it was a stab at keeping the WNT on top.

That is bizarre logic. The women's team wins so to help preserve that they institute a poor quality version of the failing da from the male side which wins nothing.

It's called looking ahead. Most institutions, businesses, and anything that wants to be successful really tries to do that. It's easier to win when no one else is trying as hard.

Fine idea but poorly executed. Call me crazy but how about you copy successful soccer programs not failing programs if you want to have success. And they did not even institute the one part of the bda that was the most successful which is the mls academies.

Bizarre logic to the point that there clearly is another agenda at work.

They do have NWSL academies. Except for Spirit, they are generally competitive. But the NWSL isn't as strong as the MLS. It's barely surviving, so the NWSL academies aren't going to be a masterpiece either.

And yes, the DA, all of it, is weaker than what is overseas. That's no shock. We've seen that time and again when the MNT tries to compete in the world cup. The DA has many failings, but it is the closet version of what we have to what they do overseas. It is an effort to change things and to address systemic problems.

Of course, the MLS is itself pathetic. And it is the MLS clubs that run those MLS academies. So how do we expect it to be any better?

The same goes for the NWSL. That is an unimpressive league, a shadow of what is being done elsewhere. And what's worse is WNT players, if they want to stay on the roster, have to stay in the NWSL. They can take a year or two off, but that's it.

We don't soccer well, at all levels. Why should the DA be any different? It may have been established by US Soccer, but it depends on clubs that know what the hell they are doing, which they don't.

Instead of just criticizing, what do you suggest?

In context, I wasn't just criticizing. I was explaining why there is a DA. People complain at the intersection of the DA as a reason not to have it. They say that because they live in a bubble here and have no clue what it looks like overseas.

Suggestions have been talked about ad nauseam. However, for sure it starts with accepting a year long model without high school soccer for the top players. It has to.

It also includes changing our soccer culture. That one is hard, but what overall is valued here and liked gets you wins at the younger ages but isn't a sustainable model at the top. I'm not sure how welcome people would even be to what it really takes. I see anything that does threaten the status quo models get attacked with intensity on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, autocorrect:

^People complain at the weaknesses of the DA as a reason not to have it.

I don't even know where intersection came from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that needs to go away is you.

Awwwww. Poor you has to read an opinion you don't like. Life is rough. Go do your sour scolding on another thread if you can't take it in here.

It’s not about agreement it’s about beating a dead horse. Get this upset about things in life that matter.

It's a chat forum...a complaint department....a suggestion box.....I am not the one misunderstanding this place. What are you doing here? Just spending your precious free time cheerleading for our great youth sports environment? Sure you are.

No, just because it is a chat forum does not mean it is a complaint department. And not every complaint is valid or feasible. And nobody likes a complainer. This forum is negative enough without an entitled baby like you chiming in constantly with pipe dreams of a revolution.

The reality is, you don’t really care at all about the state of soccer, you only care about how it affects you and your kid. Ultimately, since that is your take I could care less about you, your kid or your concerns because in the end they are only about you.

You’re the type of person who would get pissed off when a friend changes their once shared Netflix password on you after years of you never paying.

Just respond to the substance of the conversation. The name calling and stupid analogies are dull and uninteresting. Just say why you are such a fan of the current youth soccer landscape and leave out the dull childish go away stuff.

I dont disagree that soccer is of little consequence. It could vanish tomorrow it entire and life would carry on just fine. But you are in a soccer chat forum by choice. if you dont like it just find something better.

The substance is:
1. Like golf, tennis, gymnastics, if you can’t afford it don’t do it. I don’t ski or go to the movies either. They cost to much so I DONT DO THEM! I don’t demand that they change their model to suit me. I wish I could eat at Ruth Criss too but instead I can only afford Outback.

The substance of your argument is that you believe a system needs to bend to your will. This system is not a thing anyone needs. It is an extra curricular activity and nothing more. Put it in perspective and perhaps YOU will see the light.

Healthcare, education, affordable housing, THESE are the things that are important and things “We need to get serious about”. Soccer is a game, nothing more. I don’t care if your kid can afford ECNL. It isn’t compelling. I do care if you can afford prescriptions for your kid. One is more important than the other.

Much more interesting and useful post IMO. I agree with much of your post. Not sure where you got the idea I can't afford ecnl or gda. I do wish there was a better product available in the market but there is not. I am entitles to state that I wish there was a better product available.

Bolted above:

I don’t know whether or not if you can or can’t afford ECNL/DA but the substance of your argument has been focused on cost not the product on the field. The substance of your argument makes you come off as an entitled Karen.

Frankly, ECNL and DA are showcase leagues. That means they play in showcases and to a degree can guarantee a level of exposure to college coaches in a competitive formate. This model works best if the college coaches and the players are all at one location. Things cost more at a indoor shopping mall too but built into that price is the convenience of multiple stores in one place.

And while DA and ECNL doubles the showcases for college coaches they can still see twice the number of kids more economically. And the existence of two showcase leagues means more kids have an opportunity to be seen and fewer kids will fall through the cracks. Most kids in these leagues just want to play in college and are not interested in a pyramid geared solely towards the National Team. The kids you speak of would actually be harmed by one gate keeping league. The financial burden of attending ID camp after ID camp can very quickly outpace the cost of ECNL just to be seen.

You just love it so fortunate you.

If your player wants to play with with and against high level talent at most positions on the team and not with just a few strong players on a team, it is not available with very very few exceptions. Mine has played school sports with and against talent (that is not playing in these super leagues) that surpasses some of the the "elite" talent in these leagues. is what it is. you love it and I do not. The earth spins on.

[Anonymous]

The complaints about the cost are not because of my or your bank account. they exclude talent from the leagues that I want available for my player and your player to compete with and against.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clubs do not get money back from the ECNL for using their hotel platform

I did administration part time for one that was getting kickbacks. It is a megaclub, so it may be privileges others don't. That isn't really what's important though. Clubs conform to protect their entry into the big showcases and know that families will fall in line in order to get their kids rostered.

The fat cats are the ECNL league administration (housed in Richmond) and the travel agencies. Mostly that's Anthony Travel but lately it hasn't been them exclusively.

Initially it seemed like the corruption was a big reason why the gda was targeting the ecnl. But it quickly became clear it is just a contest to see which cat can get fatter.

Maybe. There's no question that youth soccer (and probably a lot of travel sports) are easy ways to get people to throw away their money. Parents throw a lot of money at it.

But one thing I learned is that the DA came out right when a lot of other countries were opening up girls' academies to mirror their boys' programs. Teams that win are better income sources, and the WNT wins - right now. There's a lot of research out there that shows we are falling behind on the girls' side. I think it was a stab at keeping the WNT on top.

That is bizarre logic. The women's team wins so to help preserve that they institute a poor quality version of the failing da from the male side which wins nothing.

It's called looking ahead. Most institutions, businesses, and anything that wants to be successful really tries to do that. It's easier to win when no one else is trying as hard.

Fine idea but poorly executed. Call me crazy but how about you copy successful soccer programs not failing programs if you want to have success. And they did not even institute the one part of the bda that was the most successful which is the mls academies.

Bizarre logic to the point that there clearly is another agenda at work.

They do have NWSL academies. Except for Spirit, they are generally competitive. But the NWSL isn't as strong as the MLS. It's barely surviving, so the NWSL academies aren't going to be a masterpiece either.

And yes, the DA, all of it, is weaker than what is overseas. That's no shock. We've seen that time and again when the MNT tries to compete in the world cup. The DA has many failings, but it is the closet version of what we have to what they do overseas. It is an effort to change things and to address systemic problems.

Of course, the MLS is itself pathetic. And it is the MLS clubs that run those MLS academies. So how do we expect it to be any better?

The same goes for the NWSL. That is an unimpressive league, a shadow of what is being done elsewhere. And what's worse is WNT players, if they want to stay on the roster, have to stay in the NWSL. They can take a year or two off, but that's it.

We don't soccer well, at all levels. Why should the DA be any different? It may have been established by US Soccer, but it depends on clubs that know what the hell they are doing, which they don't.

Instead of just criticizing, what do you suggest?

In context, I wasn't just criticizing. I was explaining why there is a DA. People complain at the intersection of the DA as a reason not to have it. They say that because they live in a bubble here and have no clue what it looks like overseas.

Suggestions have been talked about ad nauseam. However, for sure it starts with accepting a year long model without high school soccer for the top players. It has to.

It also includes changing our soccer culture. That one is hard, but what overall is valued here and liked gets you wins at the younger ages but isn't a sustainable model at the top. I'm not sure how welcome people would even be to what it really takes. I see anything that does threaten the status quo models get attacked with intensity on this forum.

Kids are playing in ECNL and DA because they are showcase leagues. In general we are not interested in the state of the international game and most are not vested in that outcome.

The leagues offer strong competition and exposure to the zero sum game of college. The sooner you accept the real reasons why people are in these leagues the sooner you can come to terms with it.

[Anonymous]

We play in the leagues. It is not required that sit like stupid door mats and quietly tolerate the nonsense inserted into these leagues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We play in the leagues. It is not required that sit like stupid door mats and quietly tolerate the nonsense inserted into these leagues.

And strong competition is subject to interpretation of the word strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We play in the leagues. It is not required that sit like stupid door mats and quietly tolerate the nonsense inserted into these leagues.

You can choose another league. There is choice.

I’m not sure how you think having a monopoly would make it more accessible.

Do colleges offer free ID camps? They have an actual vested interest in turning over every stone and yet they charge. The truth is, more kids have an opportunity to be seen now than ever before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We play in the leagues. It is not required that sit like stupid door mats and quietly tolerate the nonsense inserted into these leagues.

You can choose another league. There is choice.

I’m not sure how you think having a monopoly would make it more accessible.

Do colleges offer free ID camps? They have an actual vested interest in turning over every stone and yet they charge. The truth is, more kids have an opportunity to be seen now than ever before.

I will give you that. I just wish it were different kids.

I am entitled to that opinion and you are entitled to like it the way it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, we need to get serious -- The ECNL/DA is the best of what is out there but it is no where near the best that our nation can do.

Hmmm.. it's the best of what's out there..

Travel is the main issue for my family and many families we know.

travel is the issue?... travel? 2-3x a year for 1 person for ECNL/GDA? Or do you mean it's expensive for your ENTIRE family. Fund a chaperone to keep costs down.

Parents get suckered into thinking they have to get into to travel by u8 or it is over. Then you are playing $2,000-3,000 in fees a year plus other costs to travel between Baltimore and Richmond to play against weak competition when you are better off at U10 working on individual skills.

No one by u8 is getting suckered into travel. When the fees go from $300/yr to $3000, you know you are buying a different product. You don't have to be be pressured into that environment, no one is compelling you to do it; however structured skills development outside of travel team will typically cost $200/month for 1 hr a week. Of course, you definitely don't need that training because it's a cash grab, so your Mia will learn it all for from the streets.

By the time you hit u12, you are going to out of town tournaments where you spend a thousand. By u14, if you are doing ECNL or DA or even non-ECNL/DA you are on a plane three to five times a year going to showcases and national playoffs. If you have more than two kids, such an agenda is not feasible.

Again, fund a chaperone.. you clearly haven't done any more than a very superficial analysis, not even back of the napkin pros or cons if you really really thought the ECNL or GDA platform was worth it outside the travel costs. If you have more that 2 kids, lots of things aren't feasible, kids are expensive, i'm not sure what you are trying to say? Is everyone of your kids expected to play ECNL or GDA (in soccer or some other expensive activity?). And if they are what was your plan if it wasn't costs for soccer, but it was for something else?

You clearly don't have more than two kids. Even if you could afford all the travel, you should not have to travel as much. It isn't necessary -- That is the point.

Discussion on how number is kids is relevant to a league's showcasing worth because of travel costs is ridiculous. You either find a way if you think it's a must or don't, because it isn't, this isn't difficult. BTW, what's wrong with cchaperones? They exist to keep costs down while letting players participate with some adult responsibility.

I easily found http://www.ussoccerda.com/scholarship-program just for travel issues like these.

i wasn't able to quickly find ECNL player scholarships online, only scholarships for ECLN alumni

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We play in the leagues. It is not required that sit like stupid door mats and quietly tolerate the nonsense inserted into these leagues.

You can choose another league. There is choice.

I’m not sure how you think having a monopoly would make it more accessible.

Do colleges offer free ID camps? They have an actual vested interest in turning over every stone and yet they charge. The truth is, more kids have an opportunity to be seen now than ever before.

I will give you that. I just wish it were different kids.

I am entitled to that opinion and you are entitled to like it the way it is.

Let me guess, you think that Little Rich Mia on your team is holding your kid back because you think there is some poor kid out there who would serve your child better.

Since you’ve stated that you can afford it then why not just pay for the poor kid yourself? Convince some other parents of the same.

Be the change you demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clubs do not get money back from the ECNL for using their hotel platform

I did administration part time for one that was getting kickbacks. It is a megaclub, so it may be privileges others don't. That isn't really what's important though. Clubs conform to protect their entry into the big showcases and know that families will fall in line in order to get their kids rostered.

The fat cats are the ECNL league administration (housed in Richmond) and the travel agencies. Mostly that's Anthony Travel but lately it hasn't been them exclusively.

Initially it seemed like the corruption was a big reason why the gda was targeting the ecnl. But it quickly became clear it is just a contest to see which cat can get fatter.

Maybe. There's no question that youth soccer (and probably a lot of travel sports) are easy ways to get people to throw away their money. Parents throw a lot of money at it.

But one thing I learned is that the DA came out right when a lot of other countries were opening up girls' academies to mirror their boys' programs. Teams that win are better income sources, and the WNT wins - right now. There's a lot of research out there that shows we are falling behind on the girls' side. I think it was a stab at keeping the WNT on top.

That is bizarre logic. The women's team wins so to help preserve that they institute a poor quality version of the failing da from the male side which wins nothing.

It's called looking ahead. Most institutions, businesses, and anything that wants to be successful really tries to do that. It's easier to win when no one else is trying as hard.

Fine idea but poorly executed. Call me crazy but how about you copy successful soccer programs not failing programs if you want to have success. And they did not even institute the one part of the bda that was the most successful which is the mls academies.

Bizarre logic to the point that there clearly is another agenda at work.

They do have NWSL academies. Except for Spirit, they are generally competitive. But the NWSL isn't as strong as the MLS. It's barely surviving, so the NWSL academies aren't going to be a masterpiece either.

And yes, the DA, all of it, is weaker than what is overseas. That's no shock. We've seen that time and again when the MNT tries to compete in the world cup. The DA has many failings, but it is the closet version of what we have to what they do overseas. It is an effort to change things and to address systemic problems.

Of course, the MLS is itself pathetic. And it is the MLS clubs that run those MLS academies. So how do we expect it to be any better?

The same goes for the NWSL. That is an unimpressive league, a shadow of what is being done elsewhere. And what's worse is WNT players, if they want to stay on the roster, have to stay in the NWSL. They can take a year or two off, but that's it.

We don't soccer well, at all levels. Why should the DA be any different? It may have been established by US Soccer, but it depends on clubs that know what the hell they are doing, which they don't.

Instead of just criticizing, what do you suggest?

In context, I wasn't just criticizing. I was explaining why there is a DA. People complain at the intersection of the DA as a reason not to have it. They say that because they live in a bubble here and have no clue what it looks like overseas.

Suggestions have been talked about ad nauseam. However, for sure it starts with accepting a year long model without high school soccer for the top players. It has to.

It also includes changing our soccer culture. That one is hard, but what overall is valued here and liked gets you wins at the younger ages but isn't a sustainable model at the top. I'm not sure how welcome people would even be to what it really takes. I see anything that does threaten the status quo models get attacked with intensity on this forum.

Kids are playing in ECNL and DA because they are showcase leagues. In general we are not interested in the state of the international game and most are not vested in that outcome.

The leagues offer strong competition and exposure to the zero sum game of college. The sooner you accept the real reasons why people are in these leagues the sooner you can come to terms with it.

Incorrect. Most do it for cellege, and ECNL is 100% a college showcase league. Always was.

The DA was formed to create and foster an environment for the development of professional players capable of competing a talent International level. I have already mentioned a lot of weaknesses, so no need to answer back with "look at how it fails" . It still was formed for that purpose and only a year long model of some kind without high school soccer can do it.

Now, it is also used by families for college recruitment and because American culture is mostly focused on that and the majority want that, it makes sense for the DA to incorporate that. Plus, as a model, year long soccer will develop a better player. If we had clones at the exact same talent level, the DA clone would end up a better player.

However, there are still a segment of players who want to play professional, boys and girls. I just met a woman the other day in her 20s who has been playing in Holland. And Spirit owner Baldwin's daughter plays for Sporting Portugal. I think everyone can come up with a ton of names of guys, so I'm not letting those. Plus, we do have mal Pugh who sidestep college to play for Spirit.