White privilege and asian-bashing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school. ”

Yes. This is the problem. It is one thing if you simply “get it” very quickly in school; it is another if you are spending eons outside of school pre-learning all the material.

How does it truly change the culture of a school? At my AAP center, a handful of kids jumped up to 6th grade Algebra. Some of those kids are probably doing outside school and aren't brilliant at math. Most of the other kids in the grade don't care, and most of the parents don't seem to even be aware that other kids have jumped up. My DD is taking the 6th grade AAP math and is not jumped up to Algebra. I don't see how it affects her at all. No one is forcing you to participate in the race to nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school. ”

Yes. This is the problem. It is one thing if you simply “get it” very quickly in school; it is another if you are spending eons outside of school pre-learning all the material.

How does it truly change the culture of a school? At my AAP center, a handful of kids jumped up to 6th grade Algebra. Some of those kids are probably doing outside school and aren't brilliant at math. Most of the other kids in the grade don't care, and most of the parents don't seem to even be aware that other kids have jumped up. My DD is taking the 6th grade AAP math and is not jumped up to Algebra. I don't see how it affects her at all. No one is forcing you to participate in the race to nowhere.

Not sure what you mean by nowhere. Isn’t it a race to TJ?

[Anonymous]

We're in a different community but hear some of the same grumblings. The parents who complain about the academic pressure are often the same parents who have their kids in multiple and/or elite sports, dance, etc. I have no issue with that btw, but it's a choice on how to spend time. Kids who play a lot of baseball will probably be great at baseball- kids who take that time to study for spelling bees will probably win spelling bees.
Schools can respond by doing different tracks for students- just like sports. The hardworking, talented students can be in the academic equivalent of travel sports.
I'm white and my DS is in a selective, accelerated math program. Yes, there are more Asian students in this program, but what I see from all the parents so far, is support, not pushing. We see this program as an opportunity.

[Anonymous]

There is so much math phobia in this thread. Larlo does travel sports and spends 3 hours/night on his sport. That's great! Carla is an elite pianist and practices 2 hours every day. Awesome! Larla is a bookwork who reads for hours after school every day. Bob takes art classes and draws all of the time. Sally is in a chess club and spends a ton of time practicing for tournaments. Billy is spending an hour every night learning to speak German. All of these are great! Chloe takes a single math enrichment class, and collectively everyone clutches their pearls and starts grumbling about ruining childhood, too much pressure, and those damn strivers. Nobody grumbles that any of the other kids worked too hard, didn't truly earn their advanced status, and shouldn't be given advanced opportunities. They only do so for math.

It seems like the parents grumbling about the striver culture think that no kids could possibly love math and that math is the one and only activity that is not acceptable for after school classes or enrichment. People here seem to think that kids should be placed according to their level of advancement in everything except math. In math, working harder and being more advanced = cheating and stealing the glory from the kids who are naturally more brilliant.

[Anonymous]

^ Also, it's funny that over in the AAP forum, there's a thread about how to make your kids enjoy reading and want to read for hours each day. The suggestions were to strip away all screen time, make the kids so bored that reading becomes appealing, force the kids to do book clubs with their parents, and so on. All of that seemed acceptable to the majority on that thread.

Can you imagine how that thread would have gone if you replaced "reading" with "math"? White, american culture says that going to elaborate lengths to force your kids to read is fine, but doing any extra math is torturing your kid or cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is all this pressure you talk of? Many elementary schools have no HW or minimal HW. Schools bend of backward to reduce workload. Effort, not results, is emphasized. Homework is typically not graded for my middle schooler.

It is very different than it was five years ago.

That’s all good. But there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school.

There should definitely be no pressure in elementary school. I’m not seeing that when 5 kids in 6th grade are selected to take Algebra I in 6th grade—not because they are brilliant or gifted but because they studied for hundreds of hours outside school and and prepped for tests most parents have no clue exist.
When a school does this it condones the pressure put on these kids outside of school and encourages other families to follow suit. Typically it’s not UMC white families that feel the pressure to “be the best” but rather the less wealthy and 1st or 2nd generation immigrants who feel this anxiety.

On one hand it’s unfair for UMC parents to tsk tsk the practice of hot housing academics on young kids. They have less to worry about as far as maintaining their child’s class status. But in this case they are right. No expert in education thinks pushing down academics is a good thing. The idea that kids should go to 8 hours of school and then do academics afterward isn’t an education ideal. The Asian communities that do this are a disaster and no one would say otherwise.

So if you are Asian and you are in Algebra in 6th grade then it must be you are hothoused, but if you are White it is because you are brilliant or gifted? so instead of blaming the school for not doing more for brilliant kids you blame parents for wanting to help their children succeeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So if you are Asian and you are in Algebra in 6th grade then it must be you are hothoused, but if you are White it is because you are brilliant or gifted? so instead of blaming the school for not doing more for brilliant kids you blame parents for wanting to help their children succeeed.

Yep. You nailed it. But don't forget that in typical American culture, kids are also supposed to be rewarded for natural brilliance and not for effort based achievement.

Schools should test everyone and place them in the most appropriate class given their current level. It's not the school's place to scrutinize why a child might be advanced and offer or deny opportunities based on what they're assuming about the child's homelife.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
On one hand it’s unfair for UMC parents to tsk tsk the practice of hot housing academics on young kids. They have less to worry about as far as maintaining their child’s class status. But in this case they are right. No expert in education thinks pushing down academics is a good thing. The idea that kids should go to 8 hours of school and then do academics afterward isn’t an education ideal. The Asian communities that do this are a disaster and no one would say otherwise.

This is a huge exaggeration though for elementary aged kids. None of them are attending hours of schooling each night. Most of them are maybe doing a couple enrichment classes for only a few hours total per week. It's just not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. Also, elementary kids are not going to 8 hours of school each day. They're doing fewer than 7 hours, and by the time you account for lunch, recess, specials, and the rest, they're doing only about 3.5 hours of academics per day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
On one hand it’s unfair for UMC parents to tsk tsk the practice of hot housing academics on young kids. They have less to worry about as far as maintaining their child’s class status. But in this case they are right. No expert in education thinks pushing down academics is a good thing. The idea that kids should go to 8 hours of school and then do academics afterward isn’t an education ideal. The Asian communities that do this are a disaster and no one would say otherwise.

This is a huge exaggeration though for elementary aged kids. None of them are attending hours of schooling each night. Most of them are maybe doing a couple enrichment classes for only a few hours total per week. It's just not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. Also, elementary kids are not going to 8 hours of school each day. They're doing fewer than 7 hours, and by the time you account for lunch, recess, specials, and the rest, they're doing only about 3.5 hours of academics per day.

No. Try 5.
Let’s at least have an honest conversation here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We seem to be perfectly fine with this in athletics. No one complains when the star athlete practices two hours every day. In fact, we idolize him and shower him with praise for talent and hard work.

The point is that athletics is different from school work. A child or teen spends all day in school, and then they go out on to the athletic field and do something different from what they’ve been doing all day. A child who spends all day in school and then sends the after school hours in outside academic classes or tutoring is simply doing more of the same, not expanding knowledge into a completely different area than academics.

The children who excel in school and in a more physical activity are developing lives with many different facets. They have a foundation to build an adult life as a strong and healthy person who can win and lose as part of a team and be just as successful academically. Kids who can excel in school while spending their after school hours in non academic pursuits are sought after by colleges who want students who can be successful and contribute in a number of different areas.

That's fine for you, and your family. The equivalent would be me complaining that PE classes need to be dumbed down more for my kid because yours is so athletic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all South Asian or East Asian immigrants to US are MC or UMC.

And not tiger parents are Asian.
Still the phenomenon exists.
Tiger parents come to good school districts in droves and[b] disrupt them.[/b] It’s about the numbers, the concentration of ppl with a different philosophy.
Not about their ethnicity or race or class.

This is a load of BS. There is something inherently wrong if a school cannot accommodate high achievers. The Tiger Parents are not kidnapping other people's children and making them study hard. I think people are upset because their children were getting easy A's and all of a sudden they are being graded in a curve.

A good school district should welcome Tiger parents and students. MCPS is not thriving when instead of Tiger parents they are getting more and more of ESOL, FARMS and low performing kids.

A good school district will expand opportunities. If you had spelling bees before, include Geography, Biology, Science, Literature Bees, Cinema Bee, Sports Bee, Pop Music Bee too,

If you had school newspaper before, include school comic strip. If you had a Green Recycling Team before, include a Butterfly Garden club, a Blue Bird Trail team There is so much a school district can do to include parents and businesses and create more and more opportunities for all caliber of students.

After a point though, parents have to be inconvenienced and make the sacrifice of their time and resources to support their children. Sorry, that is what good human parenting is about.

Yes I am upset when one culture (that you chose) suddenly is overcome by another.
I am upset when it happens to schools suddenly flooded by low income high needs kids, too.

white supremacist

I never said anything about one culture being supreme to another.
I just have my preferences.

This is a white supremacist normalization attempt - we know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is all this pressure you talk of? Many elementary schools have no HW or minimal HW. Schools bend of backward to reduce workload. Effort, not results, is emphasized. Homework is typically not graded for my middle schooler.

It is very different than it was five years ago.

That’s all good. But there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school.

There should definitely be no pressure in elementary school. I’m not seeing that when 5 kids in 6th grade are selected to take Algebra I in 6th grade—not because they are brilliant or gifted but because they studied for hundreds of hours outside school and and prepped for tests most parents have no clue exist.
When a school does this it condones the pressure put on these kids outside of school and encourages other families to follow suit. Typically it’s not UMC white families that feel the pressure to “be the best” but rather the less wealthy and 1st or 2nd generation immigrants who feel this anxiety.

On one hand it’s unfair for UMC parents to tsk tsk the practice of hot housing academics on young kids. They have less to worry about as far as maintaining their child’s class status. But in this case they are right. No expert in education thinks pushing down academics is a good thing. The idea that kids should go to 8 hours of school and then do academics afterward isn’t an education ideal. The Asian communities that do this are a disaster and no one would say otherwise.

PP here. You’re making the assumption that these 6th graders aren’t bright. The regular math class is likely very easy, and they have the skill set to work at a higher level. I think that’s wonderful!! I do think intelligence should be rewarded

Not all schools would accommodate this, btw. All sixth graders must take the same math class where my child goes. Only in 7th grade can students move to a higher level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is all this pressure you talk of? Many elementary schools have no HW or minimal HW. Schools bend of backward to reduce workload. Effort, not results, is emphasized. Homework is typically not graded for my middle schooler.

It is very different than it was five years ago.

That’s all good. But there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school.

There should definitely be no pressure in elementary school. I’m not seeing that when 5 kids in 6th grade are selected to take Algebra I in 6th grade—not because they are brilliant or gifted but because they studied for hundreds of hours outside school and and prepped for tests most parents have no clue exist.
When a school does this it condones the pressure put on these kids outside of school and encourages other families to follow suit. Typically it’s not UMC white families that feel the pressure to “be the best” but rather the less wealthy and 1st or 2nd generation immigrants who feel this anxiety.

On one hand it’s unfair for UMC parents to tsk tsk the practice of hot housing academics on young kids. They have less to worry about as far as maintaining their child’s class status. But in this case they are right. No expert in education thinks pushing down academics is a good thing. The idea that kids should go to 8 hours of school and then do academics afterward isn’t an education ideal. The Asian communities that do this are a disaster and no one would say otherwise.

Oh PUL-eeze! If your kid were put in the top reading group or a math pullout, you'd be gloating about how they are "naturally advanced." You resent the kids taking algebra in 6th grade because it makes your own kid look behind or (gasp) average. This is 100% about your insecurity.

[Anonymous]

The neurotic collapse of privileged white suburbia is a spectacle to behold indeed, I say!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school. ”

Yes. This is the problem. It is one thing if you simply “get it” very quickly in school; it is another if you are spending eons outside of school pre-learning all the material.

trying to imagine how you would react if we were lecturing you that you shouldn't buy books for your preschoolers or read to them or teach them letters, because that is just "pre-learning." I mean, can you even hear yourself?