Greater Greater Washington story on school enrollment growth

[Anonymous]

The article makes me want to have DCPS gore some data people to break out the likely results of changing the lottery preferences. I want analyses not DCUM complaints.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So thanks to Nick for writing this story. I don't know him but I have tracked these issues for years and this all makes sense to me. The truth is there is no easy solution and it is not just a WOTP issue. He mentioned Capitol Hill elementary schools and he is right (as the Miner post confirms). A little further south, look at the growth in the Navy Yard and SW in the last 5 years and there are still cranes for additional apartment buildings.

This is a once in a generation (or a few) challenge and I'm glad it is at least being discussed.

And Eastern has plenty of capacity, assuming IB families take advantage of it. And if they don't, application school slots are plentiful and growing.

But the elementary schools are packed, which is still an issue.

But there is still capacity to the east and south (EOTR). Lines will need to be redrawn.

But to Nick's point, they would have to be re-drawn to the extent that if you lived on top of a school building, you would be assigned to another one miles away. You are kidding yourself if you think that will work.

Well, a school-wide lottery won't work, and neither will parents consent to redistricting if they perceive it sends their child to a "bad" school. So I think this is much ado about nothing -- schools will be packed and class sizes will be large and there will be trailers. The End.

One thing that DCSP/DGA will likely change is making schools bigger when they modernize (they refused to add an additional story to Maury to preserve outdoor space - but they'll have to move off that stance when it comes to capacity, obviously).

What?

DCPS has absolutely redrawn boundaries and sent families to schools they perceived as 'bad' (see Eaton feed shifting to hardy). The parents have options -- lottery for a city-wide DCPS or a charter, enroll in a private school, or move. But DCPS has a right to shift boundaries as they see fit.

Well, I hope you're right!! I am in favor of boundary shifting (or clusters at the elementary level, in appropriate areas where an under-enrolled elementary is in close proximity to over-enrolled ones.) But my sense is that parents strongly resist this. I don't know the backstory behind Eaton & Hardy though.

[Anonymous]

Don't Nick Keenan and many others on the Save Old Hardy group send their own kids to private schools?

I don't get these parents imposing 'public school philosophies' on us "public school" people who are directly impacted...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So thanks to Nick for writing this story. I don't know him but I have tracked these issues for years and this all makes sense to me. The truth is there is no easy solution and it is not just a WOTP issue. He mentioned Capitol Hill elementary schools and he is right (as the Miner post confirms). A little further south, look at the growth in the Navy Yard and SW in the last 5 years and there are still cranes for additional apartment buildings.

This is a once in a generation (or a few) challenge and I'm glad it is at least being discussed.

And Eastern has plenty of capacity, assuming IB families take advantage of it. And if they don't, application school slots are plentiful and growing.

But the elementary schools are packed, which is still an issue.

But there is still capacity to the east and south (EOTR). Lines will need to be redrawn.

But to Nick's point, they would have to be re-drawn to the extent that if you lived on top of a school building, you would be assigned to another one miles away. You are kidding yourself if you think that will work.

Well, a school-wide lottery won't work, and neither will parents consent to redistricting if they perceive it sends their child to a "bad" school. So I think this is much ado about nothing -- schools will be packed and class sizes will be large and there will be trailers. The End.

One thing that DCSP/DGA will likely change is making schools bigger when they modernize (they refused to add an additional story to Maury to preserve outdoor space - but they'll have to move off that stance when it comes to capacity, obviously).

What?

DCPS has absolutely redrawn boundaries and sent families to schools they perceived as 'bad' (see Eaton feed shifting to hardy). The parents have options -- lottery for a city-wide DCPS or a charter, enroll in a private school, or move. But DCPS has a right to shift boundaries as they see fit.

This. Putting people into a worse school is exactly what happened. e.g. Bloomingdale lost rights to Seaton amd was sent to Langley. It happens and people will fuss but it is definitely possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So thanks to Nick for writing this story. I don't know him but I have tracked these issues for years and this all makes sense to me. The truth is there is no easy solution and it is not just a WOTP issue. He mentioned Capitol Hill elementary schools and he is right (as the Miner post confirms). A little further south, look at the growth in the Navy Yard and SW in the last 5 years and there are still cranes for additional apartment buildings.

This is a once in a generation (or a few) challenge and I'm glad it is at least being discussed.

And Eastern has plenty of capacity, assuming IB families take advantage of it. And if they don't, application school slots are plentiful and growing.

But the elementary schools are packed, which is still an issue.

But there is still capacity to the east and south (EOTR). Lines will need to be redrawn.

But to Nick's point, they would have to be re-drawn to the extent that if you lived on top of a school building, you would be assigned to another one miles away. You are kidding yourself if you think that will work.

Well, a school-wide lottery won't work, and neither will parents consent to redistricting if they perceive it sends their child to a "bad" school. So I think this is much ado about nothing -- schools will be packed and class sizes will be large and there will be trailers. The End.

One thing that DCSP/DGA will likely change is making schools bigger when they modernize (they refused to add an additional story to Maury to preserve outdoor space - but they'll have to move off that stance when it comes to capacity, obviously).

What?

DCPS has absolutely redrawn boundaries and sent families to schools they perceived as 'bad' (see Eaton feed shifting to hardy). The parents have options -- lottery for a city-wide DCPS or a charter, enroll in a private school, or move. But DCPS has a right to shift boundaries as they see fit.

This. Putting people into a worse school is exactly what happened. e.g. Bloomingdale lost rights to Seaton amd was sent to Langley. It happens and people will fuss but it is definitely possible.

... and now people on DCUM really like Langley, so that's exactly what happens! Parents realize their fears of the unknown are overblown, and that there are huge benefits to their neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So thanks to Nick for writing this story. I don't know him but I have tracked these issues for years and this all makes sense to me. The truth is there is no easy solution and it is not just a WOTP issue. He mentioned Capitol Hill elementary schools and he is right (as the Miner post confirms). A little further south, look at the growth in the Navy Yard and SW in the last 5 years and there are still cranes for additional apartment buildings.

This is a once in a generation (or a few) challenge and I'm glad it is at least being discussed.

And Eastern has plenty of capacity, assuming IB families take advantage of it. And if they don't, application school slots are plentiful and growing.

But the elementary schools are packed, which is still an issue.

But there is still capacity to the east and south (EOTR). Lines will need to be redrawn.

But to Nick's point, they would have to be re-drawn to the extent that if you lived on top of a school building, you would be assigned to another one miles away. You are kidding yourself if you think that will work.

Well, a school-wide lottery won't work, and neither will parents consent to redistricting if they perceive it sends their child to a "bad" school. So I think this is much ado about nothing -- schools will be packed and class sizes will be large and there will be trailers. The End.

One thing that DCSP/DGA will likely change is making schools bigger when they modernize (they refused to add an additional story to Maury to preserve outdoor space - but they'll have to move off that stance when it comes to capacity, obviously).

What?

DCPS has absolutely redrawn boundaries and sent families to schools they perceived as 'bad' (see Eaton feed shifting to hardy). The parents have options -- lottery for a city-wide DCPS or a charter, enroll in a private school, or move. But DCPS has a right to shift boundaries as they see fit.

This. Putting people into a worse school is exactly what happened. e.g. Bloomingdale lost rights to Seaton amd was sent to Langley. It happens and people will fuss but it is definitely possible.

... and now people on DCUM really like Langley, so that's exactly what happens! Parents realize their fears of the unknown are overblown, and that there are huge benefits to their neighborhood school.

Well to be fair, at the same time Langley got a new principal who is great, and a special SEL program. It really is a better school now than it was before

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:One of GGW's stated goals is to get people out of single-occupancy vehicles in DC. Someone tell me how a citywide lottery could possibly advance that goal? DC isn't about to purchase the fleet of school buses that would be needed, leaving parents in such a scenario to rely upon WMATA -- have fun with that -- or (more likely) their own cars.

It's one of a billion reasons a citywide lottery is a non-starter. Wish GGW would admit that.

Nick here.

The article is my words and doesn't reflect any "official" GGW position. Please read what I wrote. I'm not advocating for an all-lottery system. Far from it. My intent in writing the article was to ring the alarm that if the city doesn't start going in a different direction from where it is currently headed, a neighborhood-based school system may not be sustainable.

Um, but DC already doesn't have a neighborhood-based system. It seems like the quasi-free market we have here with charter schools will solve the issue. Also, you may be underestimating the degree to which parents are willing to pack into schools they consider "good" (eg Lafayette and Deal). It's pretty clear what parents' revealed preferences are: they value whiter, higher SES schools more than they value class size.

If parents *truly* prioritized class size/overcrowding, then they'd be jumping up to fight for re-districting. But we all know why they aren't, and we all know why they aren't.

It isn't sustainable. Parents are voting with their feet leaving their neighborhood schools (exceptions being Anacostia, Ballou, Woodson, all with less than 30% OOB). The city is opening and expanding city-wide HS options quickly (Ron Brown, Bard, Coolidge Early College and, perhaps, expansion of Banneker).

DCPS neighborhood HS (2017-18) and percent OOB at each.

Anacostia - 25% OOB
Ballou - 28% OOB
Cardozo ~61% OOB (may be skewed because there is no public data for IB/OOB at high school level only)
Coolidge 55% OOB (will no longer be a comprehensive school in 2019-20)
Dunbar 53% OOB
Eastern 62% OOB
Woodson 27% OOB
Roosevelt 38% OOB
Wilson 41% OOB

City-wide/lottery and/or application options as of SY 2019-20 (including alternative schools for purpose of inclusive and overall heacount)

Banneker
Bard
CHEC
Coolidge Early College
Ellington
Moore
Phelps
Ron Brown
SWW
Washington Met

Again for the last time

Stop any OOB/sibling preference WOTP sorry to get the best school pyramid you have to pay for the real estate
Have tracking/honors EOTP to keep more folks in the middle school years ala Stuart Hobson/Jefferson
Close 1/3 of the HS in the top list and focus on the remaining

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So thanks to Nick for writing this story. I don't know him but I have tracked these issues for years and this all makes sense to me. The truth is there is no easy solution and it is not just a WOTP issue. He mentioned Capitol Hill elementary schools and he is right (as the Miner post confirms). A little further south, look at the growth in the Navy Yard and SW in the last 5 years and there are still cranes for additional apartment buildings.

This is a once in a generation (or a few) challenge and I'm glad it is at least being discussed.

And Eastern has plenty of capacity, assuming IB families take advantage of it. And if they don't, application school slots are plentiful and growing.

But the elementary schools are packed, which is still an issue.

But there is still capacity to the east and south (EOTR). Lines will need to be redrawn.

But to Nick's point, they would have to be re-drawn to the extent that if you lived on top of a school building, you would be assigned to another one miles away. You are kidding yourself if you think that will work.

Well, a school-wide lottery won't work, and neither will parents consent to redistricting if they perceive it sends their child to a "bad" school. So I think this is much ado about nothing -- schools will be packed and class sizes will be large and there will be trailers. The End.

One thing that DCSP/DGA will likely change is making schools bigger when they modernize (they refused to add an additional story to Maury to preserve outdoor space - but they'll have to move off that stance when it comes to capacity, obviously).

What?

DCPS has absolutely redrawn boundaries and sent families to schools they perceived as 'bad' (see Eaton feed shifting to hardy). The parents have options -- lottery for a city-wide DCPS or a charter, enroll in a private school, or move. But DCPS has a right to shift boundaries as they see fit.

This. Putting people into a worse school is exactly what happened. e.g. Bloomingdale lost rights to Seaton amd was sent to Langley. It happens and people will fuss but it is definitely possible.

... and now people on DCUM really like Langley, so that's exactly what happens! Parents realize their fears of the unknown are overblown, and that there are huge benefits to their neighborhood school.

Well to be fair, at the same time Langley got a new principal who is great, and a special SEL program. It really is a better school now than it was before

I can believe that. Yet, you're never going to find out the principal and SEL program are great if you reject the school out of hand.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand why OSSE can’t get their sh*t together. Is it corruption, incompetence, staff churn, or lack of internal processes/responsibilities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't Nick Keenan and many others on the Save Old Hardy group send their own kids to private schools?

I don't get these parents imposing 'public school philosophies' on us "public school" people who are directly impacted...

yup kind of like the Joe Weedon guy demanding people go to Eastern and then his kid goes to WALLS lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So thanks to Nick for writing this story. I don't know him but I have tracked these issues for years and this all makes sense to me. The truth is there is no easy solution and it is not just a WOTP issue. He mentioned Capitol Hill elementary schools and he is right (as the Miner post confirms). A little further south, look at the growth in the Navy Yard and SW in the last 5 years and there are still cranes for additional apartment buildings.

This is a once in a generation (or a few) challenge and I'm glad it is at least being discussed.

And Eastern has plenty of capacity, assuming IB families take advantage of it. And if they don't, application school slots are plentiful and growing.

But the elementary schools are packed, which is still an issue.

But there is still capacity to the east and south (EOTR). Lines will need to be redrawn.

But to Nick's point, they would have to be re-drawn to the extent that if you lived on top of a school building, you would be assigned to another one miles away. You are kidding yourself if you think that will work.

Well, a school-wide lottery won't work, and neither will parents consent to redistricting if they perceive it sends their child to a "bad" school. So I think this is much ado about nothing -- schools will be packed and class sizes will be large and there will be trailers. The End.

One thing that DCSP/DGA will likely change is making schools bigger when they modernize (they refused to add an additional story to Maury to preserve outdoor space - but they'll have to move off that stance when it comes to capacity, obviously).

What?

DCPS has absolutely redrawn boundaries and sent families to schools they perceived as 'bad' (see Eaton feed shifting to hardy). The parents have options -- lottery for a city-wide DCPS or a charter, enroll in a private school, or move. But DCPS has a right to shift boundaries as they see fit.

This. Putting people into a worse school is exactly what happened. e.g. Bloomingdale lost rights to Seaton amd was sent to Langley. It happens and people will fuss but it is definitely possible.

... and now people on DCUM really like Langley, so that's exactly what happens! Parents realize their fears of the unknown are overblown, and that there are huge benefits to their neighborhood school.

Well to be fair, at the same time Langley got a new principal who is great, and a special SEL program. It really is a better school now than it was before

I can believe that. Yet, you're never going to find out the principal and SEL program are great if you reject the school out of hand.

On the contrary, Langley recruits pretty hard and it is not possible to live in the area without hearing allll about it at the farmers market, on the playground, at the pool, at Mr. Mike's, at T-ball, at soccer...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why OSSE can’t get their sh*t together. Is it corruption, incompetence, staff churn, or lack of internal processes/responsibilities?

Everyone is afraid of the mayor and just doing her bidding from the DME on down

To actually fix education in DC you need real independence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why OSSE can’t get their sh*t together. Is it corruption, incompetence, staff churn, or lack of internal processes/responsibilities?

Everyone is afraid of the mayor and just doing her bidding from the DME on down

To actually fix education in DC you need real independence

That I am starting to agree with. But since everything needs budget approval the politics will not stay out. But maybe the planning will be more independent. But still, see the shenanigans behind the sudden "plan' to move Banneker High down the road to the old Shaw Jr High site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why OSSE can’t get their sh*t together. Is it corruption, incompetence, staff churn, or lack of internal processes/responsibilities?

Everyone is afraid of the mayor and just doing her bidding from the DME on down

To actually fix education in DC you need real independence

This is a feature, not a bug of mayoral control.

But for those of us who have lived here 2+ decades, we've had independent control. We've had an elected school board. None really worked any better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't Nick Keenan and many others on the Save Old Hardy group send their own kids to private schools?

I don't get these parents imposing 'public school philosophies' on us "public school" people who are directly impacted...

yup kind of like the Joe Weedon guy demanding people go to Eastern and then his kid goes to WALLS lol

Not really, it's WAY worse, at least Weeden seems to have tried and still stayed in the sytem! Is this true? People without even the slightest skin in the game are leading public school efforts and writing long op-eds about it? What on god's green earth. This is more like the Chancellors sending their kids to private.