Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

why do you think the test is timed, then? it tests speed and knowledge.

Because proctors are expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at one of the so-called Big 3s here in DC. Two of my children have ADHD. Neither one of them gets accommodations because they need to learn how to handle it. They instead have an executive functioning coach. They are both in upper school now, and their grades are fine. Not stellar, but fine. One got into her first choice for college (not an Ivy or super-selective school).

My kids have told me that they think about 50% of the students get extra time. They say they don’t want it. But I am now wondering if I have somehow done them a disservice by not getting them accommodations. It’s a strange world.

The key here is that the world exists beyond college. So I would argue by not mowing down obstacles you have actually created a kids who will have learned to keep going even if they're not winning, to work harder than the next guy and advocate for what they want. My guess is at their 20th reunion, they will be far more successful than all those kids with accommodations who never learned to maneuver around and through problems.

There is a huge difference in just average kids and some of ours that have serious life long struggles. I hope my child will be more successful as he's had to fight and work harder than most other kids BUT, he can only do it as we have put a lot of time and money into getting him to where he needs to be. If a parent comes in at the 9th hour demanding accommodations for testing, then no, but some of our kids have had real challenges since birth. We've spent a fortune and put everything we have into making our kid that resilient kid who can work through it... you make it sound so simple. I wish it was. You have no idea what goes on behind the scenes in some families. We aren't talking about a parent in 9th who gets the kid tested for extra time.. that is fraud, but for some of us, instead of that nice house, fancy cars, nice vacations, we have huge therapy and tutoring bills and lucky for some of us, all that is working enough to get our kids to a higher functioning level.

I’m the person who posted about my 2 kids, but I didn’t post this response.

I am against people gaming the system, but I don’t think that someone getting tested in 9th grade is necessarily gaming anything. My second child’s ADHD only became apparent in middle school. He had managed to hide it before that. I think as work gets more complex, you can notice more issues. That doesn’t make them somehow minor or not real.

And to the first person who responded: I hope you are right, and that this benefits them in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

The point is to see who’s smarter.

correct, and processing speed is one component of cognitive ability.

I fully agree that it's not the ONLY component. but it's one.

I’d say it’s a fairly important component in most jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

why do you think the test is timed, then? it tests speed and knowledge.

Consider this. The kid who was really super fast at math facts in 3rd grade, may completely bomb Algebra I. The kid who thoroughly understood numbers but was slow to write or shout out the answers on math fact test, might be a math genius going beyond Calculus in high school. I have seen each. The second one didn't finish the math section on a high school entrance exam even though it was testing things he'd studied 3 years prior to where he was in math at the time. His school doesn't enter kids in math contests like suburban schools do, so on paper, other than looking at the class he is taking and his grade, you might not know you have a math wiz on your hands. With extra time on a standardized test, he'd not miss a question. Unfortunately there is no chance he'll fill the bubble in fast enough to do that timed. But he's really smart, so he's not getting any accommodations. That kid has to hope the school will move him past the SAT pre-cut so they get to the teacher recommendations that explain what he can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

why do you think the test is timed, then? it tests speed and knowledge.

Because proctors are expensive.

They are paid $15 an hour.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know where to find data on percent of students with disabilities at different schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

The point is to see who’s smarter.

Then let's submit IQ and GAI tests.

GAI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

Would you make a kid who wears glasses take them off to take the test? Other kids are not allowed to have magnifiers so why let the kid with glasses wear them?

The accommodations level the playing field. I have one severe ADD kid and one non-ADD kid. The ADD kid will have to re-read the question over and over again because she forgot what she just read or will become hyper focused on a cough or something else. The non-ADD kid doesn't notice someone coughing and has normal ability to regulate her concentration. ADD is the inability to regulate focus it actually doesn't mean that they can never focus they just have less control on what they focus on.

The ADD kid is a great student with accommodations and excels in subjects where she hyper focuses. She is amazing at math and science. She is a good writer but it takes her a long time. She won't be applying to be an English lit major and colleges see her past IEPs in her record.

NP. Wearing glasses doesn't change the parameters of the exam. A student wearing glasses would still have the same amount of time, take the exam in the same room as everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

The point is to see who’s smarter.

No. It's to ensure somebody is smart enough.

The return on investment on an IQ that is above 119 is high, but once you hit 120 - 140ish the return as IQ increases is low, then the return on investment is diminishing, meaning IQs >145 actually has disadvantages.

They are looking for kids in the "sweet sport" and are not total duds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

Would you make a kid who wears glasses take them off to take the test? Other kids are not allowed to have magnifiers so why let the kid with glasses wear them?

The accommodations level the playing field. I have one severe ADD kid and one non-ADD kid. The ADD kid will have to re-read the question over and over again because she forgot what she just read or will become hyper focused on a cough or something else. The non-ADD kid doesn't notice someone coughing and has normal ability to regulate her concentration. ADD is the inability to regulate focus it actually doesn't mean that they can never focus they just have less control on what they focus on.

The ADD kid is a great student with accommodations and excels in subjects where she hyper focuses. She is amazing at math and science. She is a good writer but it takes her a long time. She won't be applying to be an English lit major and colleges see her past IEPs in her record.

NP. Wearing glasses doesn't change the parameters of the exam. A student wearing glasses would still have the same amount of time, take the exam in the same room as everyone else.

Nor does extra time for kids that don't need it.

[Anonymous]

My kid has an adhd diagnosis. Our psych told us to push for all the accommodations now so we have them in case we ever want them.

I heard that as code for testing accommodations for standardized tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

why do you think the test is timed, then? it tests speed and knowledge.

Because proctors are expensive.

They are paid $15 an hour.

+ cost of the location ... times how many centers.

SAT is a cash cow, they are a business. They don't care about education, they care about money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

Would you make a kid who wears glasses take them off to take the test? Other kids are not allowed to have magnifiers so why let the kid with glasses wear them?

The accommodations level the playing field. I have one severe ADD kid and one non-ADD kid. The ADD kid will have to re-read the question over and over again because she forgot what she just read or will become hyper focused on a cough or something else. The non-ADD kid doesn't notice someone coughing and has normal ability to regulate her concentration. ADD is the inability to regulate focus it actually doesn't mean that they can never focus they just have less control on what they focus on.

The ADD kid is a great student with accommodations and excels in subjects where she hyper focuses. She is amazing at math and science. She is a good writer but it takes her a long time. She won't be applying to be an English lit major and colleges see her past IEPs in her record.

NP. Wearing glasses doesn't change the parameters of the exam. A student wearing glasses would still have the same amount of time, take the exam in the same room as everyone else.

Nor does extra time for kids that don't need it.

Then let it be available to all and see what the results look like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid has an adhd diagnosis. Our psych told us to push for all the accommodations now so we have them in case we ever want them.

I heard that as code for testing accommodations for standardized tests.

You can't use a test that is >3 years old so.. maybe your psych is not that smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

why do you think the test is timed, then? it tests speed and knowledge.

Consider this. The kid who was really super fast at math facts in 3rd grade, may completely bomb Algebra I. The kid who thoroughly understood numbers but was slow to write or shout out the answers on math fact test, might be a math genius going beyond Calculus in high school. I have seen each. The second one didn't finish the math section on a high school entrance exam even though it was testing things he'd studied 3 years prior to where he was in math at the time. His school doesn't enter kids in math contests like suburban schools do, so on paper, other than looking at the class he is taking and his grade, you might not know you have a math wiz on your hands. With extra time on a standardized test, he'd not miss a question. Unfortunately there is no chance he'll fill the bubble in fast enough to do that timed. But he's really smart, so he's not getting any accommodations. That kid has to hope the school will move him past the SAT pre-cut so they get to the teacher recommendations that explain what he can do.

In that case you think him going the SAT without extra time is fine. He can hustle and answer as many as he can. I mean how slow can this math whiz be? So he does any answer a few questions. There are many, many normal kids who don’t have time to answer all questions.