Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

I agree, but it won't help anybody get a better score so it's basically more logistics, do you want to pay a proctor for an open ended time frame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

You can only do testing every few years so it isn't gaming the system. They have had documented concerns since 2nd grade. Different than someone coming in middle or high school demanding extra time.

I don't think anyone should get extended time for "low processing speed," period. I remember this PP and she has gone on before about how "brilliant" her DS is and how he is such as "strong" test taker ... even knowing that, she STILL finagled the extra time for the ACT. Totally gaming the system. What she had was a bright, quirky kid who seemed a little different as a younger kid, and she decided that she could not stand even the slightest difficulty for him.

You don't do neuropsych testing if everything is ok starting in 2nd grade. Do you realize the costs involved for the average family? You have no idea what some of the challenges some of our kids face.

I mean, this thread was triggered by the FEDERAL INDICTMENTS indicating that in fact, privileged parents pay good $$$ for exactly this kind of thing. I have a kid with an IEP myself, so I understand challenges. But there's no doubt that testing accomodations are abused. This PP is an object lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good chart on why -- and which -- colleges matter:

As someone posted earlier, correlation does not prove causation. George W Bush went to an Ivy League University and he did well because his family is already rich. That's pretty much the case for these legacy students.

The overwhelming majority of students are not alumni kids. Come on.

So this chart, if I understand it correctly, says that Ivy league graduates, on average (or is this medium which would be much more useful?) make back the money they spent on college + 420k OVER TWENTY YEARS? Wow so they make 21k a year more than their education cost. That's not great. Or I don't understand the chart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So this chart, if I understand it correctly, says that Ivy league graduates, on average (or is this medium which would be much more useful?) make back the money they spent on college + 420k OVER TWENTY YEARS? Wow so they make 21k a year more than their education cost. That's not great. Or I don't understand the chart.

Here's the article.

http://thedataface.com/2017/12/education/college-roi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

I agree, but it won't help anybody get a better score so it's basically more logistics, do you want to pay a proctor for an open ended time frame.

Bet to do so in one shot than thousands of individual sittings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

why do you think the test is timed, then? it tests speed and knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

The point is to see who’s smarter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted on the other thread about my DS who scored a 35 on the ACT using time and a half. He had accommodations since 2nd grade when he was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing. In summer prior to 8th grade, he was tested again, and the same diagnosis held, but with the processing speed improving slightly. He continued with his accommodations through 8th grade and high school. He had time and a half to take the ACT in February of his junior year and scored a 35 -- one and done. He has always been a strong test taker and very intelligent, so it did not come as a huge surprise, and we were thrilled. That summer, in preparation for possibility of need for accommodations in college, he had his third neuro-psych test. This test actually showed a very strong improvement in processing speed. Apparently this is something that can improve as the brain develops. We were thrilled to see this improvement and realized then that perhaps the accommodations he had for the ACT may not have been needed because of the stark improvement in processing speed. Perhaps that explains the high score. We will never know, but in our case, I would not say we "gamed the system." We just got lucky.

no, you did not get lucky. you gamed the system.

You can only do testing every few years so it isn't gaming the system. They have had documented concerns since 2nd grade. Different than someone coming in middle or high school demanding extra time.

I don't think anyone should get extended time for "low processing speed," period. I remember this PP and she has gone on before about how "brilliant" her DS is and how he is such as "strong" test taker ... even knowing that, she STILL finagled the extra time for the ACT. Totally gaming the system. What she had was a bright, quirky kid who seemed a little different as a younger kid, and she decided that she could not stand even the slightest difficulty for him.

You don't do neuropsych testing if everything is ok starting in 2nd grade. Do you realize the costs involved for the average family? You have no idea what some of the challenges some of our kids face.

I mean, this thread was triggered by the FEDERAL INDICTMENTS indicating that in fact, privileged parents pay good $$$ for exactly this kind of thing. I have a kid with an IEP myself, so I understand challenges. But there's no doubt that testing accomodations are abused. This PP is an object lesson.

The indictments show that obtaining sham diagnosis was just the first step.

Then Singer and his accomplices used those faked reports to get extra time and give them an opportunity top change the students' answers. The fraud included fraudulent accommodations but ALSO old school cheating (changing answers just enough to bring in an acceptable, but not too high score).

These were not parents who sought fake diagnoses, and then had the kids test on their own with just extra time. It went WAY beyond that, and in fact, required bribing ACT and SAT staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

The point is to see who’s smarter.

Then let's submit IQ and GAI tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

The point is to see who’s smarter.

correct, and processing speed is one component of cognitive ability.

I fully agree that it's not the ONLY component. but it's one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
These were not parents who sought fake diagnoses, and then had the kids test on their own with just extra time. It went WAY beyond that, and in fact, required bribing ACT and SAT staff.

But this goes beyond the indictment. The WSJ article said that once accommodations were hidden from view of the colleges, accommodation requests nearly tripled. There are lots of non-illegal ways to "game" the system. This is surely one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

And how could they test processing speed w accommodations of extra time and even usage of calculators and the abuse of the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The college board should extend the time for EVERYONE. That will remove the processing speed gaming and truly test the knowledge.

except ... the WHOLE POINT IS TESTING PROCESSING SPEED. save your arguments for the colleges -- let them figure out admissions standards that go beyond processing speed. and stop denying that processing speed is not one important component of ability for some kinds of achievement.

No. The test is not to test speed. The point is to see if somebody has learned enough in 17 years to attend a college.

The point is to see who’s smarter.

Then let's submit IQ and GAI tests.

This would make more sense. By college the public’s have given enough standardized tests. This is a money maker only.